How do we "fix" this LB Positional Group?

Cowboyny

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,778
Reaction score
18,991
Every since that first Ram Playoff game, our two young linebackers have been a shell of their former selves. Rams killed Lve/Jaylon with a lot of misdirection running plays and now other teams have followed that same blueprint with tremendous success. Prior to that loss, many were talking about the Cowboys young tandem, as among the best in the entire league.

In my opinion, both lack the necessary instincts that the position requires. They are more athletes then good football players. This pains me to say, as I was a huge Lve supporter prior to his draft. You would think with their elite, physical traits the physical nature of the position would at least be covered. Neither is a good stack/shedder, point of attack type of player, they are more finesse run and hit linebackers then anything else. Playing more of a read/react scheme that Nolan tried to implement was a total disaster. They both should be better in a more traditional, one gap 4-3 scheme, but teams will continue to misdirect us to death until they prove they can stop it! Kind of liked the screen pass two years ago.

I don't think addressing the linebacker group will be the priority this off-season. Almost the entire secondary is littered with fa's, DL has serious needs within the interior. The front office probably would like to see first, if Quinn can salvage their careers as they both were premium draft picks that were considered core players just 2 seasons ago. A decision on Jaylon makes more sense next off-season as well as deciding if they will pick up Lve's 5th yr option on his rookie contract.

Since they are moving back to the 4-3, they are going to need another starter, assuming both Lee/Thomas don't return. Who are some of the top linebackers to this year's class and various things I have heard and read about them:

Parsons Penn State-is quite like Jaylon, has immaturity concerns, struggles with misdirection plays. However, has the Bobby Wagner type of ceiling due to his traits. More of a strong-side LB.

Collins Tulsa-a do it all, elite size linebacker. Many see him as a chess piece in the 3-4 and a strong-side LB in the 4-3. Possesses elite, size/length, but doesn't play like it. I've heard some Lve comparisons.

JOK Notre Dame-many view him as a similar prospect to I. Simmons from last year, who had an ok rookie season with Arizona. He will most likely be a will linebacker on the NFL level. Has elite quickness and strong instincts for the postion. His lack of size could be a concern for some teams.

Bolton Missouri-my number 1 pet cat in the entire draft. He is the total opposite of Parsons, lacks the elite physical traits, probably is maxed out, but is the best at mental processing for the position. Rarely takes false steps and shows up before his blocking assignment reaching him. He remind me of Kendricks from Minnesota. Cowboys probably won't have interest as they usually like the better athletes.

Surratt North Carolina-more of a will LB on the next level, who should make more of an impact in coverage early in his career. Pretty new to the position in which he is still learning. Some question him being too soft.

Browning Ohio State-possesses all the elite, physical traits team look for. He needs to become more of a consistent player, rather then a flash one.

I think all these prospects could go within the top 60 selections, I hope the last two falls to our 3rd rd selection.
 

jaythecowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,872
Reaction score
2,254
Nick Bolton is the guy I want too. Although I like Zaven Collins as well and think he could play mike. I say grab one of them, plug them in at mike and then let the chips fall where they may in regards to LVE and Jaylon. There is the possibility neither one is here after 2021 anyway.
 

baltcowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,047
Reaction score
16,788
Every since that first Ram Playoff game, our two young linebackers have been a shell of their former selves. Rams killed Lve/Jaylon with a lot of misdirection running plays and now other teams have followed that same blueprint with tremendous success. Prior to that loss, many were talking about the Cowboys young tandem, as among the best in the entire league.

In my opinion, both lack the necessary instincts that the position requires. They are more athletes then good football players. This pains me to say, as I was a huge Lve supporter prior to his draft. You would think with their elite, physical traits the physical nature of the position would at least be covered. Neither is a good stack/shedder, point of attack type of player, they are more finesse run and hit linebackers then anything else. Playing more of a read/react scheme that Nolan tried to implement was a total disaster. They both should be better in a more traditional, one gap 4-3 scheme, but teams will continue to misdirect us to death until they prove they can stop it! Kind of liked the screen pass two years ago.

I don't think addressing the linebacker group will be the priority this off-season. Almost the entire secondary is littered with fa's, DL has serious needs within the interior. The front office probably would like to see first, if Quinn can salvage their careers as they both were premium draft picks that were considered core players just 2 seasons ago. A decision on Jaylon makes more sense next off-season as well as deciding if they will pick up Lve's 5th yr option on his rookie contract.

Since they are moving back to the 4-3, they are going to need another starter, assuming both Lee/Thomas don't return. Who are some of the top linebackers to this year's class and various things I have heard and read about them:

Parsons Penn State-is quite like Jaylon, has immaturity concerns, struggles with misdirection plays. However, has the Bobby Wagner type of ceiling due to his traits. More of a strong-side LB.

Collins Tulsa-a do it all, elite size linebacker. Many see him as a chess piece in the 3-4 and a strong-side LB in the 4-3. Possesses elite, size/length, but doesn't play like it. I've heard some Lve comparisons.

JOK Notre Dame-many view him as a similar prospect to I. Simmons from last year, who had an ok rookie season with Arizona. He will most likely be a will linebacker on the NFL level. Has elite quickness and strong instincts for the postion. His lack of size could be a concern for some teams.

Bolton Missouri-my number 1 pet cat in the entire draft. He is the total opposite of Parsons, lacks the elite physical traits, probably is maxed out, but is the best at mental processing for the position. Rarely takes false steps and shows up before his blocking assignment reaching him. He remind me of Kendricks from Minnesota. Cowboys probably won't have interest as they usually like the better athletes.

Surratt North Carolina-more of a will LB on the next level, who should make more of an impact in coverage early in his career. Pretty new to the position in which he is still learning. Some question him being too soft.

Browning Ohio State-possesses all the elite, physical traits team look for. He needs to become more of a consistent player, rather then a flash one.

I think all these prospects could go within the top 60 selections, I hope the last two falls to our 3rd rd selection.
The comparison of Zach Collins to LVE before the injuries is spot on. I think he is more of 3/4 outside linebacker compared to LVE because he is a better pass rusher. Pauline said he is a top 12 pick right now and I bet he got that from the Cowboys scouts. He probably fits Nolan’s defense better then Quinn’s though.

Are their any small school linebackers with tools that we develop in the middle rounds like we did with Hitchens and Coakley?
 

cnuball21

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,055
Reaction score
9,188
You can draft a guy like Zaven Collins and let him play MIKE, move Vander Esch to WILL which he was better at, and designate Smith as a June 1st cut. Also draft a big 1-T llike Tyler Shelvin.

Love Collins to replace Smith...I Just think he's going to go somewhere between our 1st and 2nd round picks. Good trade back option.
 

RamziD

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,124
Reaction score
2,863
Love Collins to replace Smith...I Just think he's going to go somewhere between our 1st and 2nd round picks. Good trade back option.

Think he’ll go top 15-20. Would prefer him in a trade back but we need to get one of Parsons or Collins. We are depleted of the kind of LBs used in Quinn’s defenses.
 

cnuball21

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,055
Reaction score
9,188
The comparison of Zach Collins to LVE before the injuries is spot on. I think he is more of 3/4 outside linebacker compared to LVE because he is a better pass rusher. Pauline said he is a top 12 pick right now and I bet he got that from the Cowboys scouts. He probably fits Nolan’s defense better then Quinn’s though.

Are their any small school linebackers with tools that we develop in the middle rounds like we did with Hitchens and Coakley?

3/4 OLBs are usually pass rushers that have the athleticism to drop and cover in zone. That's an awful comp for LVE or Collins.

They're off ball Lbs.
 

Cowboyny

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,778
Reaction score
18,991
3/4 OLBs are usually pass rushers that have the athleticism to drop and cover in zone. That's an awful comp for LVE or Collins.

They're off ball Lbs.
The comp was more about Collins having tremendous size like Lve, but neither are overly physical players.
 

cnuball21

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,055
Reaction score
9,188
The comp was more about Collins having tremendous size like Lve, but neither are overly physical players.

Meh...I guess that's fair. Dude still makes a ton of plays and seems to have good instincts.
 

Bigdog

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,709
Reaction score
11,355
I would not hate trading back up into the last 1st or early 2nd to get him.

He's a jerk.


We need jerks.
Would love to get Collins with our 2nd rd pick after getting Farley or Surtain with our first but i think we need to trade up to get him also. Wouldn’t mind Browning though if we can’t. Also I would love Tyler Shelving but if we can’t the Florida Gators Dt Teradell Slayton I believe his name is could be had in the later rounds I think.
 

Cowboyny

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,778
Reaction score
18,991
Meh...I guess that's fair. Dude still makes a ton of plays and seems to have good instincts.
So did Lve on the college level, but Collins doesn’t have durability concerns. Think Collins is an excellent fit for our strong side role where he can do it all. Think he goes around the same range Lve was drafted, late teens.
 

Malhavoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,313
Reaction score
2,180
I don’t think Collins is going to to test as well LVE. And I don’t see us spending pick #10 on a player that doesn’t check all the boxes. Parsons, Surtain, Farley. I want them in that order. I don’t think Parsons will be available so it will come down most likely to one of the corners.

Browning is a kid that you pick with an eye to his 2nd year. That’s when Jerry will probably have the guts to get rid of Smith. Browning I think can be a really good player. Just may not be ready to step in day 1.
 

baltcowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,047
Reaction score
16,788
Collins may not be our pick at 10 but will be in serious consideration. He is going higher the lots of fans want to believe. Right now he probably the second best linebacker in the draft next to Parsons.
 
Top