News: SDFW: Dallas Cowboys Hot Take: Leighton Vander Esch, worse than Jaylon Smith

I agree with the sentiment but here's another thought...if all of the linebackers suck....if all of them for the most part have a history of playing well....then are we sure its the players? Three years ago most around here talked about us having the best linebackers in the league...three laters....guys still in their prime or should be and now we have the worst? Something seems to be off with this whole group. I could believe that the Cowboys suck at drafting but I'm not sure if that's entirely the case.

Jipper said:

Maybe they both suck and we need new linebackers next year?

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Or maybe we need some new Defensive coaches and scheme. Because they played amazing a year or 2 ago

Even pff has Vander Esch graded worse than Jaylon. Only difference is he isn't on the field enough for some people to notice.

Many fans don’t want to hear it but LVE was far & away a worse LB than Jaylon Smith, & as such, he deserves a hefty portion of criticism.

Neither is very good. And it's not really a hot take.
Both guys were taken high and both have had more bad years than good.
A big part of why our defense sucks is due to our FO rolling the dice on injuries or "talented" but lazy coaching them up type of guys.

2016 we take Smith, who looked like a freakish LB before his leg got mangled.
We also took Collins at 3-tech to develop, but couldn't stay healthy.

2017 we took Taco(can't coach length! and we can develop him) in the first, then Chido, Lewis and Woods.
2018 we took LVE(injury risk) in the first
2019 we took Hill(coach him up) in the 2nd.

None of the above really deserve(d) a second deal off what they've shown so far.

At least Vander Esch we can walk clean of next year.

rocyaice said:

I agree with the sentiment but here's another thought...if all of the linebackers suck....if all of them for the most part have a history of playing well....then are we sure its the players? Three years ago most around here talked about us having the best linebackers in the league...three laters....guys still in their prime or should be and now we have the worst? Something seems to be off with this whole group. I could believe that the Cowboys suck at drafting but I'm not sure if that's entirely the case.

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Something not talked about enough is how much Anthony Hitchens meant to our linebacking group. Hitchens is pretty much a black Sean Lee in terms of his knowledge and instincts for the game. His starting games at all three LB spots as a rookie is still one of the most impressive things I've ever seen from a player. Even though he was dinged up that final year in Dallas dude still suited up every Sunday and played at a pretty high level. Joe Thomas is a better athlete and I love his short area quickness but he is not quite as good of a player. My thought is that Nolan just put more on these guys' plates than they were able to handle under the circumstances. And that includes putting guys in front of them who were constantly getting pushed back in their laps. I think both are salvageable.. and I think we will see them much closer to their 2018 levels next season than this last one once they get back to assignments that they actually understand and aren't having to fight off 320 pound guards every other play.

Jipper said:

Maybe they both suck and we need new linebackers next year?

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Precisely.

Two things can be equally true.

That said, if I’m forced to keep one I’m going with LVE over Jaylon all day, everyday, and twice on Sundays.

Interesting perspective here. I don't know if LVEs first season was a fluke or if injuries have just taken their toll and continually rehabing. I'm going with the latter and so the question becomes can he ever get it back? This season will likely be a contract year for him so there should be some extra motivation. You would hope the neck issues are behind him, but can't sit back without drafting insurance. Despite the major needs in the secondary if Parsons is available at 10 the Cowboys really need to think hard about him vs 1 of the corners.

Also there's really 2 reasons Jaylon gets criticism.

1) Season 1 was dominant for LVE, while Jaylon has never had a dominant season.
2) Jaylon is getting paid a lot more and so every action is under close valuation by us fans.

LVE sucked this year and Jaylon is still worse.

I'm going to reserve judgement on LVE until after this year. He's been hurt the past 2 seasons and was fantastic his rookie year. If he can't play up to his first round status or stay on the field in 2021 then yeah, he's a bust.

Jaylon is just a different animal altogether. He's flat out delusional. There's something wrong upstairs with him between his inability to diagnose plays, how he foolishly takes the wrong angles, etc. Then there was his "just watch the tape" comment after being asked if he'd be here next season. Add in all of the swiping and the foot issue and I think he's much closer to being a lost cause than LVE. LVE hasn't been in denial about his poor play and I think knows he has to put up or shut up in 2021 based on the last comments I heard from him. Between getting healthy and going back to a familiar scheme I have alot of faith LVE can at least be a starter who's helping the team in 2021 and forward.

baltcowboy said:

In my Chris Berman voice. This thread is gonna be good!!!!

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The cool thing is, i can hear that!

Of someone goes from pro bowl to suck it’s usually a injury...

Fix the DT position.

The problem is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Neither Smith nor LVE are MLB material. They are both best suited for the outside, WLB to be specific. The Cowboys have tried both inside with poor results. It’s no surprise that LVE was selected in the first round of the draft after a stellar year on the weak side for Boise St. No surprise that he was successful for the Cowboys at WLB. LVE must be moved back to his natural position. The Cowboys must bring in another MLB or move Jalen back to the middle and protect him with better DT play. Both were at new positions in a new scheme, and it doesn’t work.

I still have yet to read one single logical take on what happened to those two.

They were a force together in 2018.

Sure, scheme change for 2020 but that doesn't explain how bad 2019 was.

As much as I bash Jerry, I really can't blame him for sticking with these two for the last two seasons.

The dramatic drop-off for both at once makes little sense.

CalPolyTechnique said:

Precisely.

Two things can be equally true.

That said, if I’m forced to keep one I’m going with LVE over Jaylon all day, everyday, and twice on Sundays.

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Can I ask why you would take LVE over Jaylon? Is it his 16% missed tackle rate? Or his inability to be on the field for more than half the time?

Diehardblues said:

Two solid talents coming out with injury concerns we used 1st and 2nd round picks on that have added to our questionable high drafts picks we’ve made on defense this era.

And cumulatively have been major contributing factors preventing this franchise from more success without a better defense.

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This x100

Jaylon, LVE, Taco, Trysena....we suck because of those four draft misses.

We tend to draft guys with injury history too early. I'm hopeful the LB's decline was due to scheme and that they bounce back under DQ while they also draft some help here. Should be able to draft another LB in rounds 3-5 that can back up LVE or smith at the very least.

LB overview

Joe Thomas: Good nickel backer with some coverage skills but undersized and easily picked on in run game and exposed when playing every down. No more than a 3rd or 4th backer in this league. Free Agent to be and price matters.
Sean Lee: A Coach on the field but his lack of size has now been married with a lack of athleticism. Doesn't hurt you, but isn't making any plays. Almost certainly will walk around at about 215 pounds max in his post playing days. Likely headed to retirement. A very Jason Witten type move here where team may need to nudge him along.
LVE: A physical freak with the prototype numbers in size/speed but a lack of awareness combined with injuries has dragged him down consistently putting out more bad performances than good the last 2 seasons. Make or break year for him but he's back.
Jaylon: Another physical freak with size/speed numbers to rave about but a lack of lateral movement. Bob Sturm: "Solid LB, paid like a great LB, accused by fans of being a terrible LB." Talent says he should be the team's 2nd best LB but has turned into the only guy who can stay on the field.

LB play has been greatly exacerbated by poor DT play. ESPECIALLY so in the 2 gap scheme Nolan called initially. 2 gap DTs getting driven out of the lane easily and a LB sitting back trying to read the play just won't work.
If Dallas had WAS DT's they would have good LB play even with this rag tag group.

Jipper said:

Maybe they both suck and we need new linebackers next year?

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Very first thought in my head when I saw this