Dak beat GB in post-season, Dallas’s defense lost it

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Top 5 paid QB this year just represents market price. In a couple years his salary will be more commensurate to his ability . That’s how it works in the league for most QB’s.

Again , if your not sold Dak is a franchise QB, that’s fine .

And my hunch is the Cowboys will be more consistent contenders with Dak even if we over pay him than depending on our organization to find another franchise caliber QB . In the meantime we waste the talent we have accumulated surrounding him.

Well, that's kind of the point right? There is nothing, at all, that suggests the Cowboys Franchise has to be stupid and go along with this whole, "Market Price" idiocy. Stupid Franchises do this kind of stuff. Smart ones don't. Look at Houston, look at Philly, look at the Vikings, they all went along with that whole "Market Price" lunacy and now they are looking at really bad situations. That is not a sign of intelligent management style, to me. This idea that this is how it works in the NFL now is just another example of stupid management. That's not how it works if you say no and make the smart move. Trade for value and go out and find your next starting QB in the draft. Do not allow yourself to be held hostage around the cap. All you get is a steady diet of very average teams with a year here and there that produces a decent season and little chance of winning championships. If you are Jerry, that might be enough but it shouldn't be for the fan base. We really should demand more then that.

I don't agree with your hunch. I think it locks us in to the suck. Dak has never, ever, shown that he can do it without top quality talent around him.

35 AAV is a really good contract. You want 40 for 4, you better be much better and elevate. Dak has never shown that he is that guy. Maybe he will develop into that guy but I've seen absolutely nothing that suggest he will be that guy.

I wouldn't do it.

BTW, his contract would never be a bargain. Tell me how that would work. He's making 40 AAV with well over 100k Guaranteed over a 4 year deal. The cap is not going up, and that's for probably multiple seasons and the cap is probably going down by a good 20 mil this season along. There is no way that a 4 year deal is ever going to become a bargain over that period of years. That's just the truth of it.

Diehardblues · Jan 21, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Well, that's kind of the point right? There is nothing, at all, that suggests the Cowboys Franchise has to be stupid and go along with this whole, "Market Price" idiocy. Stupid Franchises do this kind of stuff. Smart ones don't. Look at Houston, look at Philly, look at the Vikings, they all went along with that whole "Market Price" lunacy and now they are looking at really bad situations. That is not a sign of intelligent management style, to me. This idea that this is how it works in the NFL now is just another example of stupid management. That's not how it works if you say no and make the smart move. Trade for value and go out and find your next starting QB in the draft. Do not allow yourself to be held hostage around the cap. All you get is a steady diet of very average teams with a year here and there that produces a decent season and little chance of winning championships. If you are Jerry, that might be enough but it shouldn't be for the fan base. We really should demand more then that.

I don't agree with your hunch. I think it locks us in to the suck. Dak has never, ever, shown that he can do it without top quality talent around him.

35 AAV is a really good contract. You want 40 for 4, you better be much better and elevate. Dak has never shown that he is that guy. Maybe he will develop into that guy but I've seen absolutely nothing that suggest he will be that guy.

I wouldn't do it.

BTW, his contract would never be a bargain. Tell me how that would work. He's making 40 AAV with well over 100k Guaranteed over a 4 year deal. The cap is not going up, and that's for probably multiple seasons and the cap is probably going down by a good 20 mil this season along. There is no way that a 4 year deal is ever going to become a bargain over that period of years. That's just the truth of it.

It sounds like your issue rest more on Daks ability and talent level which is fine . I have concerns too. But our opinions aren’t pertinent to the decisions being made.

My argument rest more on how our organization evaluates it. Do you believe they view Daks ability in a higher evaluation than you do? That’s the bottomline.

I’d argree the Cowboys would be more likely to fall into this “ stupid franchise” category you’ve described.

And “ Market Price Idiocy” is commonplace in the league especially when associated with QB’s.

Motorola · Jan 21, 2021

Closing in on 350 comments to the thread...and probably only two dozen refer the thread title - the game itself. As typical of CZ topics that include Prescott, the responses run the gamut- covering statistics, games and season outcomes, contract speculation, point-counterpoint banter, sarcasm, feuding with personal insults, philosphical summaries, musings, sarcasm.
But- back to that game. A week after Green Bay's victory in Dallas, they head to Atlanta for the NFCCG- and got worked over 44-21. The date - January 22, 2017. Tomorrow is the 4th anniverary of that game. After that defeat, what has happened to the Packers since?
1) Suffered back-to-back losing seasons 7-9 & 6-9-1, fired their HC before the season ended
2) The next season, under a rookie HC, GB won the division, went to the NFCCG, and was trucked again @ SF 37-20
3) This season just ended - won 2nd straight division title, hosting NFCCG.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
It sounds like your issue rest more on Daks ability and talent level which is fine . I have concerns too. But our opinions aren’t pertinent to the decisions being made.

My argument rest more on how our organization evaluates it. Do you believe they view Daks ability in a higher evaluation than you do? That’s the bottomline.

I’d also argue the Cowboys would be more likely to fall into this “ stupid franchise” category you’ve described.

Well, I said that at the start of this conversation. But then, none of these decisions are ours and yet, we see at least one new thread on Dak, almost daily.

I don't think Jerry is stupid. I think Jerry places more value on the business side of things. I, as a fan, place it on the actual product. I want to see good teams, I don't care how many people watch or how many T-shirts and big foam fingers the team sells. I just want to see the team play a better brand of football. But you could be right, I know that I think the team will repeat it's mistake with Romo again with Dak. I sincerely hope they don't but I expect they probably will.

Diehardblues · Jan 21, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Well, I said that at the start of this conversation. But then, none of these decisions are ours and yet, we see at least one new thread on Dak, almost daily.

I don't think Jerry is stupid. I think Jerry places more value on the business side of things. I, as a fan, place it on the actual product. I want to see good teams, I don't care how many people watch or how many T-shirts and big foam fingers the team sells. I just want to see the team play a better brand of football. But you could be right, I know that I think the team will repeat it's mistake with Romo again with Dak. I sincerely hope they don't but I expect they probably will.

I’d argue Jethro when it comes to football decisions has definitely presented he’s an idiot on many occasions.

I actually believe he thinks Daks provides his team a more consistent contender and opportunity to reach their ultimate goals.

And I’ve often argued wearing both hats of an owner and GM is a conflict of interest. And how he arrives at his publicly admitted priorities of “ relevant and interesting “.

Given all of these contributing factors with our dysfunctional organization is the basis of why I’m arguing that Dak despite his lack of elite ability has illustrated he’s capable of carrying this team to the brink of a championship appearance regardless of everything working against him this franchise presents.

Diehardblues · Jan 21, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Well, I said that at the start of this conversation. But then, none of these decisions are ours and yet, we see at least one new thread on Dak, almost daily.

I don't think Jerry is stupid. I think Jerry places more value on the business side of things. I, as a fan, place it on the actual product. I want to see good teams, I don't care how many people watch or how many T-shirts and big foam fingers the team sells. I just want to see the team play a better brand of football. But you could be right, I know that I think the team will repeat it's mistake with Romo again with Dak. I sincerely hope they don't but I expect they probably will.

I’d also add because for most teams your argument would better apply. Normally your line of reasoning would be a sounder argument because of the questions and concerns we have with Daks ability which are valid.

But with our dysfunctional situation much like with Romo we are fortunate to have a QB which can keep this embarrassing franchise relevant and interesting .

And regardless whether we agree or not that is the Bar our frikin owner has set for our once proud franchise . And why I’m endorsing signing Dak.

Because without him I see this franchise as more of a 5 or 6 win team reeling year after year looking for a QB . Being relevant for at least 16 games a year is about all I can hope for in our owner.

tyke1doe · Jan 21, 2021

The offense was better than the defense. So, yes, Dak did contribute to the loss, especially since he threw an interception.

We got the ball first. So we were in a position to score and stay ahead of Green Bay. That's what we had to do, but we didn't.

That's on the offense, and, as leader of the offense, Dak.

FiveSuperBowls · Jan 21, 2021

Dak_Attack_09 said:
All I have to say is if Dak had a consistent top 10 defense in his first 4 years he would have made it to the NFC championship game each year minimum.

The front office has wasted 4 years down the drain, pathetic.

I remember that game. I was pissed, yes, defensive scheme blew the game.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
I’d argue Jethro when it comes to football decisions has definitely presented he’s an idiot on many occasions.

I actually believe he thinks Daks provides his team a more consistent contender and opportunity to reach their ultimate goals.

And I’ve often argued wearing both hats of an owner and GM is a conflict of interest. And how he arrives at his publicly admitted priorities of “ relevant and interesting “.

Given all of these contributing factors with our dysfunctional organization is the basis of why I’m arguing that Dak despite his lack of elite ability has illustrated he’s capable of carrying this team to the brink of a championship appearance regardless of everything working against him this franchise presents.

In general terms, I would probably agree with this but I also suspect that it's provided he can surround him with enough talent to be successful in this strategy.

I've never been in favor of the owner being the GM. I believe that this is the biggest mistake this Franchise has ever made under Jerry.

But that's where you and I go separate ways. I do like Dak but I know what I see. He's not that elite QB and that's OK because I don't really like those kinds of QBs. I mean, I appreciate what they can do but I'm not a fan of to much throwing and that's almost always what you get when you have those QBs who are otherworldly in terms of talent. I'd rather have a guy who understands the game and understand what it takes to win. A guy who understands the value of throwing for 285 yards with 2 TDs and zero picks, extending drives, calling the right audible and not the one you like most. The guy who understands how important it is to get your running game involved early and allow it to beat down that defense. The QB that values that more then throwing for stats. Understanding that saving your Defense is just as important as scoring points and more important then putting up yards. I don't care if you throw for 400, I care if you can have a 120 QBR in the Redzone.

This, to me, is as big a reason as to why young QBs fail, as anything. Young QBs see Mahomes lighting it up. They see an Aaron Rodgers flick the wrist and drop a dime to a WR 50 yards down the sideline. They try to be that 400, 4 TD guy when they should be trying to be Tom Brady. If you step up in the big moments, instead of shrinking, those are my kind of QBs. That's why I like Brady. He's not the all world talent QB everybody covets. He's a guy who understands how to be a great QB. Believe it or not, It's also why I liked Dak, early on. I thought that he might be able to develop into that guy but now I have my doubts because I don't believe his contractual demands are ever going to allow for it. I think the Cowboys will end up being forced to move on from him. When and if he gets paid a record deal and fails to lead us to success, this fan base is going to turn on him and that's not going to be pretty. In fact, I don't really want to see it. Better to see him just go else where, to me. But that's just my opinion.

Doesn't really matter at this point. What happens will happen.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
I’d also add because for most teams your argument would better apply. Normally your line of reasoning would be a sounder argument because of the questions and concerns we have with Daks ability which are valid.

But with our dysfunctional situation much like with Romo we are fortunate to have a QB which can keep this embarrassing franchise relevant and interesting .

And regardless whether we agree or not that is the Bar our frikin owner has set for our once proud franchise . And why I’m endorsing signing Dak.

Because without him I see this franchise as more of a 5 or 6 win team reeling year after year looking for a QB . Being relevant for at least 16 games a year is about all I can hope for in our owner.

Well, that is a difference for you and I. The way I look at it, if you have a car or truck that, for whatever reason, just never seems to run right, I don't think you nickel and dime yourself trying to fix it but actually never really getting to the point where you are not sure it will ever be dependable. I think you either sell it and get rid of it or just tearing it down and rebuilding it from the frame up.

If Jerry and Stephen won't learn, then I am frankly more inclined to let it burn. That way you can rebuild it the right way. But they kinda seem to be slow learners a lot of times.

:laugh:

Diehardblues · Jan 21, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Well, that is a difference for you and I. The way I look at it, if you have a car or truck that, for whatever reason, just never seems to run right, I don't think you nickel and dime yourself trying to fix it but actually never really getting to the point where you are not sure it will ever be dependable. I think you either sell it and get rid of it or just tearing it down and rebuilding it from the frame up.

If Jerry and Stephen won't learn, then I am frankly more inclined to let it burn. That way you can rebuild it the right way. But they kinda seem to be slow learners a lot of times.

But that would be under the impression they’d be willing to rebuild it the right way . I’m not sure you realize the handicap and obstacles they present.

ABQCOWBOY · Jan 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
But that would be under the impression they’d be willing to rebuild it the right way . I’m not sure you realize the handicap and obstacles they present.

Why wouldn't that. When they burned it down in the late and early 2000s, they went out and hired Bill Parcells. What makes you think they wouldn't try and do that again?

rnr_honeybadger · Jan 21, 2021

tyke1doe said:
The offense was better than the defense. So, yes, Dak did contribute to the loss, especially since he threw an interception.

We got the ball first. So we were in a position to score and stay ahead of Green Bay. That's what we had to do, but we didn't.

That's on the offense, and, as leader of the offense, Dak.

Now you've done it the Church of Dak will surely come after you.

DandyDon52 · Jan 21, 2021

CowboysFaninHouston said:
I will ask you the same question I have asked others and gotten no response but one. How many superbowls would Brady have won if he was in dallas being coached by Garrett, Linehan and Moore?

none

and sadly mm and his guys are no improvement over previous guys.

I still think that now is not the time to pay a qb big money, the team isnt ready for a SB run.
Jerrys team building is hap hazard lol, and ad lib, no real plan. And he is in fantasy land with certain players like zeke, jaylon, and dak.

Have heard no talk of signing dak yet , do you find that odd? If either side were desperate to get a deal done,they should be doing it now .
when do they plan on doing that? :huh:

CowboysFaninHouston · Jan 21, 2021

tyke1doe said:
The offense was better than the defense. So, yes, Dak did contribute to the loss, especially since he threw an interception.

We got the ball first. So we were in a position to score and stay ahead of Green Bay. That's what we had to do, but we didn't.

That's on the offense, and, as leader of the offense, Dak.

so you are faulting a Rookie QB, in the playoffs, going against a future HOFer, despite all that happened, tying the game with a minute to go, only for defense to give two huge plays, one 35 yards to allow them to kick a field goal. wow, I guess Dak should have been let go right after the game..I mean, how could he not beat Rodgers....

Diehardblues · Jan 21, 2021

ABQCOWBOY said:
Why wouldn't that. When they burned it down in the late and early 2000s, they went out and hired Bill Parcells. What makes you think they wouldn't try and do that again?

And they screwed that up too. Ultimately didn’t have anymore success. And why hope and any sense of normalcy is very limited here.

khiladi · Jan 21, 2021

CowboysFaninHouston said:
and I could say, the exact same thing about dak haters like you, where everything is squarely his fault and nobody else, including how he is responsible for the good of the team (yes, one your brethren's said that)...

and I never excused him of everything. I never gave him credit for everything. and I never blamed him for everything. which is excactly the opposite of what you do. everything is his fault. wins and losses are on him (except you have given credit to even Garrett and Linehan for wins, but not Dak, yet squarely put all the losses on Dak)...

and in the first 5 games this year Dak has 4 interceptions. 2, in the last few seconds of games in desparate Hail Mary's...you know what they are...
Tom brady threw a couple of pick sixes in a couple of games this year. yet the team won the game? why? because their defense got the ball right back and made a stop.

and I have asked you this over and over and you keep dancing around it, not answering and spinning....when you are within a score with 3 minutes to go. is that considered garbage time? are the points in the first 3 quarters worth more and weighted more than the 4th quarter?

what we saw, with our own eyes this year, as it unfolded in front of us, was with Dak we scored in mid 30's....were in every game within the last 3 minutes and the defense giving up 200,300 yards rushing in two games and 36+ points, at the time on historic NFL worst levels...then we saw Andy take over the same offense and struggle and only score in garbage time....yet you tied your feet to Andy Dalton Anvil, jumped in both feet into the Mississippi river and now crying foul.....

and now you are excusing the defense from any culpability against the Rams...like I just said above...if we won that game, you would have given credit to everyone except Dak....yet the defense gave up 250 yards rushing. gave up two rushing TDs in the first half. gave up a 35 yard TD run to Gurley....your bend but don't break defense, BROKE mightily...or should Dak have played DT and stopped the run too!?

and Dak has had the highest number of comeback wins in his young career, than any other QB in the same period...there is no give up with him.

you spin. spin. spin....

and I asked you this question and you have avoided for the past month....How many Superbowls would Brady win with Garrett and Linehan as his coaches? show some balls. stop spinning. answer the questions.

p.s.

I assume Zeke fumbles are Dak's fault to...I guess just the way he handed the ball to him was 1 inch too high and Zeke didn't have the right handle, so he fumbled it....including on a 4th down conversion play against NO to get in position for a field goal to win the game...its also Dak's fault that Maher didn't make 10 straight field goals from the 40....and cost 2 games..Dak should have demanded to be the holder or at least kick it himself and win the game. it was his fault.

no, they weren’t hail Mary’s, as I’ve already pointed out to you multiple times. It was stupid decisions by Dak, with plenty of time left and more downs to throw again..

What we say is typical Dak.. garbage yardage with a consistent line all year, including Zach Martin, scrubbing until getting blown out. Only to then pad his stats yet again in garbage time against soft zones, with teams content in burning the clock, with Dak as usual sucking when the opposing defense clamps down to win the game, which is the objective..

khiladi · Jan 21, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Zeke VS.

Saints 18 Carries 35 Yards 1.9 YPC 1 TD
Packers 12 Carries 62 Yards 5.2 YPC 1 TD
Jets 28 Carries 105 Yards 3.8 YPC 1 TD
Eagles 13 Carries 47 Yards 3.6 YPC
Vikings 20 Carries 47 Yards 2.4 YPC
NE 21 Carries 86 Yards 4.1 YPC
Buff 12 Carries 71 Yards 5.9 YPC
Chicago 19 Carries 81 Yards 4.3 YPC 2 TD's

So in most of the games, Zeke did his part....how about Dak??????

Zeke and the RG do their part by giving Dak so many MAN looks on the outside, to the point a guy like Gallup as a second WR was leading the league in go routes the whole time Dak was playing.. there is a reason Dak throws off play action second only to a guy like Goff.. another mediocre QB..

khiladi · Jan 21, 2021

It was everybody else’s fault when Dak is QB:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-offensive-struggles-cant-put-a-finger-on-it/

Look at what they made Zeke, basically a decoy off play-action. Nothing changed this year. Teams blow us out with Dak flailing away until it’s basically meaningless.

The Cowboys have out-gained their last two opponents in total yards, but those numbers are very deceiving. Dallas has racked up the yards in "garbage time," out-gaining the Buffalo Bills 109 to 13 after the score was 26-7 with 8:02 left in the fourth quarter. In Thursday's loss to the Chicago Bears, the Cowboys out-gained the Bears 222 to 28 after Chicago took a 31-14 lead with 13:28 left.

Dallas scored a touchdown on its opening drive in its last two games. In the loss to the Bills, the Cowboys went eight consecutive possessions without a touchdown before scoring one when the game was well out of hand. Thursday night, the Cowboys went five consecutive possessions without scoring a touchdown, having four three-and-outs during the stretch and gaining a total of six yards.

The Cowboys haven't given the ball to Ezekiel Elliott either, who has just 52 carries over the past three games. Dallas has thrown the ball 131 times to just 67 designed runs, passing 66.2% of the time. Not good for a team that gave Elliott a six-year, $90 million contract three months ago.

Pretty obvious why Dallas has been inconsistent on offense against good football teams, which leads to why they are 0-6 against teams against winning records in the first place.

CowboysFaninHouston · Jan 21, 2021

khiladi said:
no, they weren’t hail Mary’s, as I’ve already pointed out to you multiple times. It was stupid decisions by Dak, with plenty of time left and more downs to throw again..

What we say is typical Dak.. garbage yardage with a consistent line all year, including Zach Martin, scrubbing until getting blown out. Only to then pad his stats yet again in garbage time against soft zones, with teams content in burning the clock, with Dak as usual sucking when the opposing defense clamps down to win the game, which is the objective..

Seattle - 3rd and 14 at seattle 26, 14 seconds to go!!!!
Cleveland - 1st and goal on the 8, with 1:42 to go score is 49-38. Dallas had 1 time out....this after cowboys made it 42-38, but defense gave up a 50 yard run to a freaking WR......with 3:42 to go....a freaking WR for 50 yards rushing TD...I mean come on man!!!

the other 2 interceptions were in the middle of the game....

I know you are going to complain why he threw interceptions in the middle of the game. then I will ask you to show me a QB that has never thrown an interception...and then I hear silence.....

your expectations of Dak is perfection. anything less than 100% completion you will complain. Anything less than 152 passer rating, you will complain. anything less than 400 yards passing, you will complain. anything less than offense scoring on every possession, you will complain, anything less than 5 TD passes per game, you will complain. defense giving up 300 yards rushing, you will blame dak, defense giving up 36 pts, you will blame dak..

so why all the spinning, just blame him, say I just want to blame him and be done with it....

Dak beat GB in post-season, Dallas’s defense lost it

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