Hypothetical Involving 1Tech/NT

Future

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I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. If you are talking about sacks, that player isn’t going to get a lot of sacks. But if you get a guy who is collapsing the pocket into the QB’s face and clogging the inside running lanes—that would make a HUGE difference in the performance of the defense.
No, it wouldn't. Offenses don't care about these guys, because they're easy to seal and don't get to the QB quick enough to make a difference.

100 out of 100 offensive coordinators would say it's easier to scheme those guys than a penetrating DT.
 

CowboyRoy

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Let's suppose you kept EVERY player we currently have on the defense BUT added a sure fire top five 1 Tech/NT to the current defense. What do you think the impact of it would be on the defense, with the new coaching hire?

IT would make the line really good. But then you have two scrap heap linebackers, no safety and no corner. And the depth on the line would still suck.
 

quickccc

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Dlaw is good but once again by himself can not do enough to overcome the undersized 3T and RDE issues. The scheme and undersized interior of the DLine have largely been the issue.

you left off the 1 tech ....and take a guess between Woods and Gallimore who Tomsula for whatever reason had woods as 3 tech (generally right side) while Gally tries to play the 1 tech. ( generally next to DLaw...and having Crawford in even if was nickel downs was a useless feat.

and we got nuthin outta street scrubs Akou and Justin hamilton ..
 

fivetwos

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IT would make the line really good. But then you have two scrap heap linebackers, no safety and no corner. And the depth on the line would still suck.
They are going to end up gambling on the LBs in 2021 because its impossible to replace as many as they need to in one off-season.

The idea that those two went from as good as they were in 2018 to what they are now has completely ruined the construction of the team.

If they don't rebound its nearly a full rebuild of the defense.
 

kskboys

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No, it wouldn't. Offenses don't care about these guys, because they're easy to seal and don't get to the QB quick enough to make a difference.

100 out of 100 offensive coordinators would say it's easier to scheme those guys than a penetrating DT.
NT's make possible the other players to do their job.

Where did you get this extreme disconnect?
 

charron

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you left off the 1 tech ....and take a guess between Woods and Gallimore who Tomsula for whatever reason had woods as 3 tech (generally right side) while Gally tries to play the 1 tech. ( generally next to DLaw...and having Crawford in even if was nickel downs was a useless feat.

and we got nuthin outta street scrubs Akou and Justin hamilton ..


They definitely get a big part of the blame. Don't forget they are the ones who left poe starting when he was clearly an issue. My belief is we have to fix both DT spots to fix the run D along with scheme. We have enough rushing guys along the dline, need a couple run stoppers to anchor the middle.
 

LACowboysFan1

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I don’t really care so much about the pass rush from the NT or 1 Tech. Just collapse the pocket, stop the run and demand a double team. That’s what you need from that position.

Right, but pressure is huge, even without actual sacks. What bothers most quarterbacks the most? Pressure up the middle. If your 1T just "holds his ground", if your other DT (in a 4-3) doesn't provide a pass rush, the quarterback steps up or sticks in the pocket and has time to find open receivers.

I get it, the 1T position guy is designed to stop the run first, but with the proliferation of the West Coast offense, and the passing game in general, there are many plays that don't even have a runner in the backfield, and many plays that have the running back go off tackle and play action etc. In that case your big run stuffer isn't helping your defense much, he does occupy blockers but if your 3T position guys are off chasing the running back to the outside, you have zero pressure up the middle.

The run stuffing AND pass rushing DT isn't common, no doubt, that's why I said if there isn't one available in the draft or in free agency, don't ignore a good 3T capable player.

Or a good 1T, it's just that what the Cowboys NEED is the dual purpose guy, none of the other DTs have shown to be all that great at pass rushing, and having one makes the DEs more effective. Again, don't draft just for need, but I really don't see how the Cowboys can go wrong IF they can get the dual purpose guy, like Barmore has shown signs he can be, and you can get him at a reasonable spot. Whether that's at no. 10 or not is for another discussion...
 

LACowboysFan1

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They definitely get a big part of the blame. Don't forget they are the ones who left poe starting when he was clearly an issue. My belief is we have to fix both DT spots to fix the run D along with scheme. We have enough rushing guys along the dline, need a couple run stoppers to anchor the middle.

Can't have enough pass rushers, for one, if you can get the dual purpose guy he can play different spots as effectively. Second even DTs get hurt, having a "two for the price of one" is a big help to the defense.

IF you can get one of course...
 

CowboyRoy

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They are going to end up gambling on the LBs in 2021 because its impossible to replace as many as they need to in one off-season.

The idea that those two went from as good as they were in 2018 to what they are now has completely ruined the construction of the team.

If they don't rebound its nearly a full rebuild of the defense.

Jaylon is toast. I was shocked that he even made the pro bowl in 2018. Must have been a replacement. Had like 5 sacks that year so I think thats what got him in.

Its a long way from 2018 and both guys have been going downhill. Once they DT's went down the tubes they got completely exposed.

It is a complete rebuild to be honest. Other than DE, its the entire defense. I think one of the two corners you have to take in the first round if you can get one. Then the Linebacker from Penn State. We get one of those 3 guys and I will be happy.
 

Irvin88_4life

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Let's suppose you kept EVERY player we currently have on the defense BUT added a sure fire top five 1 Tech/NT to the current defense. What do you think the impact of it would be on the defense, with the new coaching hire?
I know you are saying a NT but if you add a player like Aaron Donald to this DL I think the entire defense is much better. People that are answering your question didn't read all of it. Adding a top 5 player at NT(Donald) would improve the defense tremendously.
 

ThatJerryKid

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Let's suppose you kept EVERY player we currently have on the defense BUT added a sure fire top five 1 Tech/NT to the current defense. What do you think the impact of it would be on the defense, with the new coaching hire?
Is this 1 Tech/NT named Patrick Mahomie by any chance?
 

fivetwos

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Jaylon is toast. I was shocked that he even made the pro bowl in 2018. Must have been a replacement. Had like 5 sacks that year so I think thats what got him in.

Its a long way from 2018 and both guys have been going downhill. Once they DT's went down the tubes they got completely exposed.

It is a complete rebuild to be honest. Other than DE, its the entire defense. I think one of the two corners you have to take in the first round if you can get one. Then the Linebacker from Penn State. We get one of those 3 guys and I will be happy.
I think they are both cooked and the team SHOULD move on, I just don't think they will.

Jerry will be banking on the new scheme fixing these guys. That's how he is and thats probably why the scheme was changed.
 

quickccc

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They definitely get a big part of the blame. Don't forget they are the ones who left poe starting when he was clearly an issue. My belief is we have to fix both DT spots to fix the run D along with scheme. We have enough rushing guys along the dline, need a couple run stoppers to anchor the middle.

We invested in two 3 techs in last 2 years, one was just a rookie this past year, (Gallimore) the other got Marinelli-red shirted for most of '19, and was coming on well until the knee injury,(Hill)
but both need much more work on trench wars. That's gonna take time. But hopefully Quinn wont have either being red shirted or out of position at 1 tech.
Dunno which will emerge at 3 tech and possible we could see a package of both in at same time in nickel-rush situations.

the key start to improving is acquiring that quality 1 tech who can clog lanes and force double team blocking.
I'm puzzled seeing those on the board that are saying it doesn't matter and doesn't make a difference.

But the role of one toughie does make it easier for others both on the DL line and second level of defenders (LBs)
If you have a guy that dominant, he changes how you have to block him. He takes you out of what you prefer to do blocking schemes.
Now it does depend upon the support and work of the other guys. The ends, the LBs, the starting 3 tech, even the rotation guys.
" Leon can't do Every thang !!"

And again check around with the big contracts of the better run stuffers. It's a reason why they get paid the big dollars in either re-signing or another team with a great FA offer.

- At their prime and peak, we saw how a Snack Harrison/Jonanthan Hankins duo did with the run defense of 2016 Giants.
The only peeve is those type wont get you a persistent interior pass rush and they will gas out, or cannot be on the field, vs a opposing no-huddle, or 2 minute warning attack.

o_O
 

kskboys

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Right, but pressure is huge, even without actual sacks. What bothers most quarterbacks the most? Pressure up the middle. If your 1T just "holds his ground", if your other DT (in a 4-3) doesn't provide a pass rush, the quarterback steps up or sticks in the pocket and has time to find open receivers.

I get it, the 1T position guy is designed to stop the run first, but with the proliferation of the West Coast offense, and the passing game in general, there are many plays that don't even have a runner in the backfield, and many plays that have the running back go off tackle and play action etc. In that case your big run stuffer isn't helping your defense much, he does occupy blockers but if your 3T position guys are off chasing the running back to the outside, you have zero pressure up the middle.

The run stuffing AND pass rushing DT isn't common, no doubt, that's why I said if there isn't one available in the draft or in free agency, don't ignore a good 3T capable player.

Or a good 1T, it's just that what the Cowboys NEED is the dual purpose guy, none of the other DTs have shown to be all that great at pass rushing, and having one makes the DEs more effective. Again, don't draft just for need, but I really don't see how the Cowboys can go wrong IF they can get the dual purpose guy, like Barmore has shown signs he can be, and you can get him at a reasonable spot. Whether that's at no. 10 or not is for another discussion...
Here's what you're missing: Stopping up the middle takes a dimension away from the opposing O. Those runs off tackle? Think about this. When you have someone stuffing the middle, the guys next to him only have to worry about one direction and will make more plays.
 

dwmyers

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Just my two cents. 1Ts are common and there are no great 1Ts available in this draft. For most of that role, you can get a guy in middle rounds that work.
So if DQ needs one, he will get one. He was a DL coach for a decade and is competent to define those kinds of needs.

More important IMO is that people need to understand their own assignment and play within the concept of the defense. Chaos was the biggest issue with our defense
last year.

Now, if in some miracle situation we get a Vita Vea type who can be healthy all year, it would help. Probably help get us 5-10 more sacks a year. But being in assignment
is really the biggest issue from last year.

D-
 

CowboyRoy

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I think they are both cooked and the team SHOULD move on, I just don't think they will.

Jerry will be banking on the new scheme fixing these guys. That's how he is and thats probably why the scheme was changed.

yep.....one more season with both.
 

charron

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We invested in two 3 techs in last 2 years, one was just a rookie this past year, (Gallimore) the other got Marinelli-red shirted for most of '19, and was coming on well until the knee injury,(Hill)
but both need much more work on trench wars. That's gonna take time. But hopefully Quinn wont have either being red shirted or out of position at 1 tech.
Dunno which will emerge at 3 tech and possible we could see a package of both in at same time in nickel-rush situations.

the key start to improving is acquiring that quality 1 tech who can clog lanes and force double team blocking.
I'm puzzled seeing those on the board that are saying it doesn't matter and doesn't make a difference.

But the role of one toughie does make it easier for others both on the DL line and second level of defenders (LBs)
If you have a guy that dominant, he changes how you have to block him. He takes you out of what you prefer to do blocking schemes.
Now it does depend upon the support and work of the other guys. The ends, the LBs, the starting 3 tech, even the rotation guys.
" Leon can't do Every thang !!"

And again check around with the big contracts of the better run stuffers. It's a reason why they get paid the big dollars in either re-signing or another team with a great FA offer.

- At their prime and peak, we saw how a Snack Harrison/Jonanthan Hankins duo did with the run defense of 2016 Giants.
The only peeve is those type wont get you a persistent interior pass rush and they will gas out, or cannot be on the field, vs a opposing no-huddle, or 2 minute warning attack.

o_O


Completely agree. Gallimore was a step in the right direction but we cannot be done addressing the defensive line just with adding one good defensive tackle. We need to add more guys for depth now and possible future starters. just seeing how this front office works they don't want to pay top dollar for a run stuffer and they don't want to continually draft the guys for depth on defense they like to do one guy and then they move on and give them no help no depth nothing. In gallimore was just okay he wasn't great we can get better we can draft better and heaven forbid if they all work out that would be amazing.
 

quickccc

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Completely agree. Gallimore was a step in the right direction but we cannot be done addressing the defensive line just with adding one good defensive tackle. We need to add more guys for depth now and possible future starters. just seeing how this front office works they don't want to pay top dollar for a run stuffer and they don't want to continually draft the guys for depth on defense they like to do one guy and then they move on and give them no help no depth nothing. In gallimore was just okay he wasn't great we can get better we can draft better and heaven forbid if they all work out that would be amazing.

Keep in mind still that Gallimore was a rookie, and learning to master the art of trench wars takes time. Especially for rookie DTs.
It's not gonna be an overnight success.
Hill's time in 2020, was practically his rookie year since Marinelli decided to sit him out most of his rookies.

Depending upon our draft board and value I would not pass up a 3 tech that I consider significantly much better than Gallimore and Hill.

But not seeing blue chip DTs in this draft class, I would be getting a 3 tech for the sake of adding one. He'd have to be a guy that's rated so highly
on our board that we cannot pass him up. That's usually a high that team sees as a budding star in the next year or so.

I dunno what the plans for a Gerald McCoy are now ; if the Quinn staff is delighted or skeptical about a McCoy return. Who knows ?
Frankly from my thought of it, I don't want McCoy ahead of our two young guns, i'd much rather we front run with those two and let them get better with very passing game.
Maybe Quinn sees it differently with a vet with a loaded resume. But physically and age wise it's gonna look different vs that resume.

BTW, Bradley Anae is gonna really be a rookie next year as Tomsula flat out red shirted him so he gained absolutely nothing in games.

The one important I'm elated about is moving on from ex-DL coach Jim Tomsula who apparently was a suspect teacher in the eyes of the Cowboys management.
and yes, I am one who believes McCarthy was "forced " to fire both Nolan and Tomsula.
 

charron

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Keep in mind still that Gallimore was a rookie, and learning to master the art of trench wars takes time. Especially for rookie DTs.
It's not gonna be an overnight success.
Hill's time in 2020, was practically his rookie year since Marinelli decided to sit him out most of his rookies.

Depending upon our draft board and value I would not pass up a 3 tech that I consider significantly much better than Gallimore and Hill.

But not seeing blue chip DTs in this draft class, I would be getting a 3 tech for the sake of adding one. He'd have to be a guy that's rated so highly
on our board that we cannot pass him up. That's usually a high that team sees as a budding star in the next year or so.

I dunno what the plans for a Gerald McCoy are now ; if the Quinn staff is delighted or skeptical about a McCoy return. Who knows ?
Frankly from my thought of it, I don't want McCoy ahead of our two young guns, i'd much rather we front run with those two and let them get better with very passing game.
Maybe Quinn sees it differently with a vet with a loaded resume. But physically and age wise it's gonna look different vs that resume.

BTW, Bradley Anae is gonna really be a rookie next year as Tomsula flat out red shirted him so he gained absolutely nothing in games.

The one important I'm elated about is moving on from ex-DL coach Jim Tomsula who apparently was a suspect teacher in the eyes of the Cowboys management.
and yes, I am one who believes McCarthy was "forced " to fire both Nolan and Tomsula.


I don't want to reach per se. But if there is any defensive guy rated about equal to a wr, rb, or TE I'd rather draft the defensive player especially if it's along the DL. You just never know who will pan out or get injured or covid or anything.
 

kskboys

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I don't want to reach per se. But if there is any defensive guy rated about equal to a wr, rb, or TE I'd rather draft the defensive player especially if it's along the DL. You just never know who will pan out or get injured or covid or anything.
The term "reaching" is very subjective.

Problem is, you must analyze any players skillset, motor, and instincts w/ a microscope. And we are terrible at player evaluation.

A big NT does you no good if he has bad feet and no motor. For some reason, we don't seem to understand terms such as quick feet, lateral agility, instincts, and motor.
 
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