The New Orleans Saints face a salary-cap crisis in 2021

Londonboy · Jan 22, 2021

Flamma said:
It's Park Place!

Mayfair.

Eddie · Jan 22, 2021

The Cowboys have managed the cap so well that they have 3 playoff wins in 25 years.

Techsass · Jan 22, 2021

Flamma said:
Since 2015 the cap has been going up a steady 10-12 million a year. Even if this year was normal and the cap went up as usual to around 210 million, The Saints would still have to gut their team.

Maybe, but not completely. NFL accounting is similar to giving your bank a prospectus. As long as you sprinkle in enough reasonable sounding possibilities, it's accepted as legit.

buybuydandavis · Jan 22, 2021

Fla Cowpoke said:
I don't really think that is the case because quarterback salaries keep going up because the salary cap keeps going up. I think the percentage is pretty similar over time as to what the top quarterbacks get.

Yes, there's just inflation of *all* compensation in the NFL. But the % has gone up a lot.

I think Romo was around 14%, and that was the top end. Dak at 38 or 40 is more like 20%.

Also, I think the practical guaranteed money has been going up - more years practically guaranteed, though I can't see the previous historical numbers, as I don't have a premium spotrac account.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/guaranteed/
Top practical guaranteed% is now 70-80% for most.

2013 Cap 123Mil
Romo's numbers for his 2013 contract:
CONTRACT:6 yr(s) / $108,000,000
SIGNING BONUS$25,000,000
AVERAGE SALARY$18,000,000
GTD AT SIGN:$40,000,000
TOTAL GTD:$55,000,000
FREE AGENT:2020 / UFA

atlantacowboy · Jan 22, 2021

DandyDon52 said:
how did he break the ribs, that seems like more than a football injury!

I don't understand your response. Read

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-showed-says-doctors-encouraged-by-progress/

Fla Cowpoke · Jan 22, 2021

John813 said:
@Fla Cowpoke do you know if for extensions for players on the 5th year option, that if they sign a new deal the base salary can drop to minimum for that year(and then throw that money on the new deal) and the cap hit is min salary+ prorated bonus?

So like Ryan Ramcyzk, if he signs the exact deal Conklin did (3 -42mil 15mil signing)

Goes from 11mil salary+ 0 bonus in 2021 to

1.022 mil + 3.75mil prorate = 4.772mil cap hit for 2021?

(15mil/4years = 3.75mil)

And that's just keeping it simple with no voidable years at end to drop cap hit for current year.

Cause in reality he'll walk away with 16mil this year, 15mil up front. Then they can guarantee some base salary in 2022+ for security for him.

I am pretty they can but I was using the info from overthecap.com and their calculator. It seems like it wont be that hard for them to get under. So much of this is stuff that they have planned for.

Fla Cowpoke · Jan 22, 2021

Eddie said:
The Cowboys have managed the cap so well that they have 3 playoff wins in 25 years.

Our problem hasn't been cap management. The GM, the Coaching and paying the wrong guys has been. The millions paid to Tyrone Crawford for example. Zeke's contract. Jaylon's contract.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jan 22, 2021

Techsass said:
The NFL is very generous when it comes to letting teams figure out how to get back under the CAP.

There are the rules governing contracts and if a team is not under the cap by the June 1 they are fined $5m a day and eventually draft picks.

So generous. . . .

Techsass · Jan 22, 2021

FuzzyLumpkins said:
There are the rules governing contracts and if a team is not under the cap by the June 1 they are fined $5m a day and eventually draft picks.

So generous. . . .

The league loves their fines, but there are numerous options open to teams to get back under the CAP. Now the Saints obviously placed all of their chips in on 2020, so it's going to be a bit harder on them than it is on most teams.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jan 22, 2021

Techsass said:
The league loves their fines, but there are numerous options open to teams to get back under the CAP. Now the Saints obviously placed all of their chips in on 2020, so it's going to be a bit harder on them than it is on most teams.

Cut players, restructure contracts and what else?

DandyDon52 · Jan 22, 2021

atlantacowboy said:
I don't understand your response. Read

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-showed-says-doctors-encouraged-by-progress/

Brees has 11 broken ribs instead of the five shown on the first test, eight on the left side and three on the right, according to ESPN's Ed Werner. Most people have 24 ribs, with 12 on each side of the body. Brees also has a collapsed lung, but says doctors have been encouraged by his progress in lung function over the past few days.

The Saints quarterback believes the rib injuries on his left side occurred in a Week 9 loss to the New Orleans Saints??, while the injuries on the right side occurred in Week 10 against the San Francisco 49ers.

And people were against the rule in 2019 that protected the qb's more lol.
No wonder brees is retiring.

It still seems like a lot for what I saw in the clip for SF game I think 3 ribs is believable, havent seen the week 9 hit.

atlantacowboy · Jan 24, 2021

DandyDon52 said:
Brees has 11 broken ribs instead of the five shown on the first test, eight on the left side and three on the right, according to ESPN's Ed Werner. Most people have 24 ribs, with 12 on each side of the body. Brees also has a collapsed lung, but says doctors have been encouraged by his progress in lung function over the past few days.

The Saints quarterback believes the rib injuries on his left side occurred in a Week 9 loss to the New Orleans Saints??, while the injuries on the right side occurred in Week 10 against the San Francisco 49ers.

And people were against the rule in 2019 that protected the qb's more lol.
No wonder brees is retiring.

It still seems like a lot for what I saw in the clip for SF game I think 3 ribs is believable, havent seen the week 9 hit.

This is why very few player make it to 40 in the NFL. Things just break easier as you age.

About the only thing the NFL can do to protect Qbs at Brees's age is put flags around their waists and make tackling them illegal.

gjkoeppen · Jan 24, 2021

John813 said:
@gjkoeppen

Drew Brees: Cap hit 36.15mil, dead cap= 22.65mil = 13.5mil saved
Malcom Brown: Cap hit 6.5mil, dead cap= 1.5 = 5mil saved
Nick Easton: cap hit = 7mil, dead cap= 1mil = 6mil saved
Marshon Lattimore: cap hit= 10.24mil, 0 dead cap = 10.24mil saved
Tayson Hill: cap hit= 16.159, dead= 11.159 = 5mil saved
Janoris Jenkins: cap hit =14.2mil, dead = 7.2= 7mil saved
Emmanuel Sanders: cap hit = 10mil, dead = 6, 4mil saved
Ryan Ramczyk: cap hit 11.064, dead = 0, 11.064 mil saved
Kwon Alexaner: cap hit =13.4mil, dead = 0, 13.4mil saved*

13.5+5+6+10.24+5+7+4+11.064+13.4= 75.204mil cap space gained in 2021.

I was talking to a friend and he said something that gave me an idea on how to show you that your money saved really isn't what you say.

Now just for argument sake we'll say the right now the saints have 25 mil in usable cap space with all their players still on their roster and then according to you they would save 5 mil if they cut Taysom Hill. . Now on signing his last contract his 2021 balance of his signing bonus, his roster bonus and 5.725 mil of his salary was guaranteed. He only received his signing bonus at signing but it was split over the two years so not to count 8 mil on the 2020 cap. That adds up to 11 mil and change on the 2021 cap plus the 5 mil remainder of his salary.. Now at the 25 mil the saints have now and they cut Hill lets add that 5 mil to their cap space making it now 30 mil, but now we also have to take that 11 mil that is dead money so 30 mil minus that 11 mil is 19 mil of usable cap space. So did they save 5 mil. or did they lose 6 mil? They started with 25 mil and after cutting Hill they have 19 mil. Now to save on space I'm not going to go through all of them, this one explains it just fine. One other quick thing on the players who's 5th year option was used, as soon as it is exercised it becomes fully guaranteed so on those where you have 0 dead money is wrong, their salary is dead money if cut.
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John813 · Jan 24, 2021

@gjkoeppen

The tender for the 2016 and ’17 classes is guaranteed for injury only and becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap and injury if the player is on the active roster at the start of the league year of his fifth (the option) season.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/fr...ined-5th-year-option-in-rookie-contracts/amp/

2018+ the 5th year options are guaranteed at the time the option is enacted.

Fla Cowpoke · Jan 24, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I was talking to a friend and he said something that gave me an idea on how to show you that your money saved really isn't what you say.

Now just for argument sake we'll say the right now the saints have 25 mil in usable cap space with all their players still on their roster and then according to you they would save 5 mil if they cut Taysom Hill. . Now on signing his last contract his 2021 balance of his signing bonus, his roster bonus and 5.725 mil of his salary was guaranteed. He only received his signing bonus at signing but it was split over the two years so not to count 8 mil on the 2020 cap. That adds up to 11 mil and change on the 2021 cap plus the 5 mil remainder of his salary.. Now at the 25 mil the saints have now and they cut Hill lets add that 5 mil to their cap space making it now 30 mil, but now we also have to take that 11 mil that is dead money so 30 mil minus that 11 mil is 19 mil of usable cap space. So did they save 5 mil. or did they lose 6 mil? They started with 25 mil and after cutting Hill they have 19 mil. Now to save on space I'm not going to go through all of them, this one explains it just fine. One other quick thing on the players who's 5th year option was used, as soon as it is exercised it becomes fully guaranteed so on those where you have 0 dead money is wrong, their salary is dead money if cut.
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You should just stop. With Hill on the books the have 25m in cap space. If they cut him it adds 5m to that space, so they have 30m in cap space. Cap space is counted by active contracts and dead space. The 11m being counted against the cap just moved from the active salaries to the dead money.

gjkoeppen · Jan 25, 2021

Fla Cowpoke said:
You should just stop. With Hill on the books the have 25m in cap space. If they cut him it adds 5m to that space, so they have 30m in cap space. Cap space is counted by active contracts and dead space. The 11m being counted against the cap just moved from the active salaries to the dead money.

I know this might be a hard concept for you to get but dead money REDUCES the amount of cap space a team has to work with. In fact I seriously doubt that you understand much of anything about the cap. I'm going to try to help you out. Each season each team is given the same amount of cap. All player contracts for a team are added up and that amount is subtracted from that cap amount and then all the money that they are responsible for from player's contracts that are no longer on the team otherwise known as dead cap money are subtracted from that amount and that is the amount of cap space they have to work with. Dead money is that, dead cap money and is subtracted from the usable cap space, so yes that 11 mil was listed as dead money and subtracted from the usable cap space. If dead cap money wasn't subtracted from the usable cap space teams wouldn't worry about dead cap money at all. You are the one that should stop at least until you actually understand the simplest concepts of the cap.
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Fla Cowpoke · Jan 25, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I know this might be a hard concept for you to get but dead money REDUCES the amount of cap space a team has to work with. In fact I seriously doubt that you understand much of anything about the cap. I'm going to try to help you out. Each season each team is given the same amount of cap. All player contracts for a team are added up and that amount is subtracted from that cap amount and then all the money that they are responsible for from player's contracts that are no longer on the team otherwise known as dead cap money are subtracted from that amount and that is the amount of cap space they have to work with. Dead money is that, dead cap money and is subtracted from the usable cap space, so yes that 11 mil was listed as dead money and subtracted from the usable cap space. If dead cap money wasn't subtracted from the usable cap space teams wouldn't worry about dead cap money at all. You are the one that should stop at least until you actually understand the simplest concepts of the cap.
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If a team has a 100m cap, and they have 10m in room left, that includes active contracts and dead money. So by eliminating someone that was going to count as 15m and now they are going to only count as 10m in dead money...you are gaining 5m in cap space. You now have 15m to play with. The only difference is your cap was being charged with 15m in salary and bonus, and now it is being charged 10m in dead money instead. But the overall effect is you have 15m in cap space.

Fla Cowpoke · Jan 25, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I know this might be a hard concept for you to get but dead money REDUCES the amount of cap space a team has to work with. In fact I seriously doubt that you understand much of anything about the cap. I'm going to try to help you out. Each season each team is given the same amount of cap. All player contracts for a team are added up and that amount is subtracted from that cap amount and then all the money that they are responsible for from player's contracts that are no longer on the team otherwise known as dead cap money are subtracted from that amount and that is the amount of cap space they have to work with. Dead money is that, dead cap money and is subtracted from the usable cap space, so yes that 11 mil was listed as dead money and subtracted from the usable cap space. If dead cap money wasn't subtracted from the usable cap space teams wouldn't worry about dead cap money at all. You are the one that should stop at least until you actually understand the simplest concepts of the cap.
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You are so clueless. The team was being charged 16m in cap hit for Hill. If they cut the player...that goes away....and the dead money of 11m counts gets added. 5m has been freed up for the team to spend.

The cap hit before the move was 16m. The cap hit after the move is 11m. They gained 5m in room. I think you need a refresher course in 1st grade math.

gjkoeppen · Jan 25, 2021

Fla Cowpoke said:
If a team has a 100m cap, and they have 10m in room left, that includes active contracts and dead money. So by eliminating someone that was going to count as 15m and now they are going to only count as 10m in dead money...you are gaining 5m in cap space. You now have 15m to play with. The only difference is your cap was being charged with 15m in salary and bonus, and now it is being charged 10m in dead money instead. But the overall effect is you have 15m in cap space.

If that huge word IF, if Hill is cut like just before free agency starts or after it starts that would be correct, BUT, another huge word, BUT this started with someone that wanted to cut players like today or tomorrow or even next week to get room to start planning for the 2021 cap. Now cutting those players today, tomorrow or next week BEFORE, the new league year starts along with the 2021 cap, those players would no longer be on the roster in 2021 and the guaranteed money for 2021 or beyond like Hill, that guaranteed money will be subtracted from the usable cap space or be what is called dead cap money. The saints would not be saving any money by those cuts then but will increase their dead cap money. That's what I've been trying to explain.
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Fla Cowpoke · Jan 25, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
If that huge word IF, if Hill is cut like just before free agency starts or after it starts that would be correct, BUT, another huge word, BUT this started with someone that wanted to cut players like today or tomorrow or even next week to get room to start planning for the 2021 cap. Now cutting those players today, tomorrow or next week BEFORE, the new league year starts along with the 2021 cap, those players would no longer be on the roster in 2021 and the guaranteed money for 2021 or beyond like Hill, that guaranteed money will be subtracted from the usable cap space or be what is called dead cap money. The saints would not be saving any money by those cuts then but will increase their dead cap money. That's what I've been trying to explain.
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Seriously. No one is gonna cut them before the new year starts. That isn't even within reasonable thinking.

The New Orleans Saints face a salary-cap crisis in 2021

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