Win the trenches and you can win in any era

blueblood70

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Green Bay did well on defense, just didn't pressure Brady enough in the passing game as Tampa did against Rodgers.
3 int is not getting to Brady? id say forced or unforced we would be rippping daks head off and KM for not getting any points off 3 gifts..both defenses played well, if we simply had an defense in say the middle of the pack area to match with our offense we would be a threat. Turnovers typically Kill team but the bucs held and that was the game..

we cant rebuild our defense to top 10 in one offseason but going from bottom 5 to around 16th or better would put Dallas in great position..

Its an offensive league and you have to be able to move the ball but also play defense at least arooud average to above average..we failed to do either mostly due to injuries..

as much as i agree with the OP , there are more ways to win..Balance is key so being good on both sides of the ball is key..ie KC they arent always great on defense but see to show up when needed and Mahomes and his army do the rest..I dont care how good KC defense they arent going to 3 straight AFCCG without mahomes..

Point is you need more then one side or one group to win..what happened to the rams there front 7 on defense is pretty darn good they have ramseys etc , however they were let down on offense in the playoffs..how about the colts similar issues...

and most likely the bucs dont go to the sb without brady..AND that defense
 

ChuckA1

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Tampa has a great front-7. They do not have a bunch of big money players or 1st rounders in the secondary. They can generate pressure and then a good DC like Bowles can focus on coverage schemes to help out the secondary.
They do now.
 

T-RO

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So, you don't know who Vita Vea is? Derek Nnadi?

Bad conclusion. No one has said that all it takes is strong trenches. KC focuses on the trenches in the draft all the time.

Vita was out injured while KC clinched the playoffs and won 3 consecutive playoff games to push them to the Super Bowl. Would they be where they are w/out Mahomes? Hill? Kelce?

Of course you want talent all over your roster, but the most essential is QB and elite receiving weapons.
 

Cowboyny

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3 int is not getting to Brady? id say forced or unforced we would be rippping daks head off and KM for not getting any points off 3 gifts..both defenses played well, if we simply had an defense in say the middle of the pack area to match with our offense we would be a threat. Turnovers typically Kill team but the bucs held and that was the game..

we cant rebuild our defense to top 10 in one offseason but going from bottom 5 to around 16th or better would put Dallas in great position..

Its an offensive league and you have to be able to move the ball but also play defense at least arooud average to above average..we failed to do either mostly due to injuries..

as much as i agree with the OP , there are more ways to win..Balance is key so being good on both sides of the ball is key..ie KC they arent always great on defense but see to show up when needed and Mahomes and his army do the rest..I dont care how good KC defense they arent going to 3 straight AFCCG without mahomes..

Point is you need more then one side or one group to win..what happened to the rams there front 7 on defense is pretty darn good they have ramseys etc , however they were let down on offense in the playoffs..how about the colts similar issues...

and most likely the bucs dont go to the sb without brady..AND that defense

Trenches on both sides of the football. GB Defense did an excellent job turning TB over, but the offense couldn't take advantage. TB totally made them one dimensional and their OL struggled badly to protect against just their front 4 for the majority of the game.
 

blueblood70

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Trenches on both sides of the football. GB Defense did an excellent job turning TB over, but the offense couldn't take advantage. TB totally made them one dimensional and their OL struggled badly to protect against just their front 4 for the majority of the game.
still an offensive league and if you cant see it i cant open your eyes..you hve to do both well.. ie Winston had great defense and potent offense , he while giving the bucs many yards and Tds he offset them with TOs...in comes Brady, SB! odd how qb fixed the bucs as they already had the defense before he came..thats my point..this is team game will always be team game and when a area of the teams breaks down you typically lose..complete games are needed in 3 of 4 phases to win..not just the trenches.. sure its nice to have and we need to work on the defensive front, its more then that..17 Injuries' didnt help our 6-10 season, it simply wasn't just defense last year..the Offense kept turning it over, coaches calling crazy plays, and couldn't run etc the team went 6-10 most ly due to massive amounts injuries..

kind of hard to win using 4 QBs and 3rd string Ol no matter your defensive front, as much as that would have helped, injurys were the most to blame for our bad 2020.
 

T-RO

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TB totally made them one dimensional

True, and guess what. Green Bay still scored 26 points!

You think 26 points is "stopping" someone?

Today's offenses have little problem winning games w/almost no running game. Elite teams say: You win the trenches, good for you...now can you stop our receivers!? Can you stop our mobile quarterback who usually throws in two seconds?

70-80% of playoff yards come via the pass.
 

eromeopolk

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What I saw today was two teams that were able to contain a ground game, play extra men in coverage and frustrate two future, hall of fame QB's. The difference was Tampa Bay was able to generate consistent pressure with their front four, where Green Bay could not. It's that simple, win the trenches, win the game!

Certainly it doesn't help when you have a bonehead HC not going for it down 8 late in the game inside the 10 nor a CB who has no understanding of time getting beat beat at the end of the half.

I don't want to hear people complain when the team doesn't make the exciting, wow pick at 10 this year and takes another offensive lineman or defensive lineman in rd 1 and a two down run DT in rd two. Someone said recently, can you name the starting secondary for the Washington Football Team? Not many can and they are one of the best defenses in the entire league due to their front 4.
I told you this was not rocket science or PE majors would not excel.

You run to win, throw to score, and defense wins championships. So you draft DL, OL, RB, QB in every draft then fill in your roster with everything else.
 

Cowboyny

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True, and guess what. Green Bay still scored 26 points!

You think 26 points is "stopping" someone?

Today's offenses have little problem winning games w/almost no running game. Elite teams say: You win the trenches, good for you...now can you stop our receivers!? Can you stop our mobile quarterback who usually throws in two seconds?

70-80% of playoff yards come via the pass.
Just 26 points with 3 defensive turnovers.
 

Cowboyny

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still an offensive league and if you cant see it i cant open your eyes..you hve to do both well.. ie Winston had great defense and potent offense , he while giving the bucs many yards and Tds he offset them with TOs...in comes Brady, SB! odd how qb fixed the bucs as they already had the defense before he came..thats my point..this is team game will always be team game and when a area of the teams breaks down you typically lose..complete games are needed in 3 of 4 phases to win..not just the trenches.. sure its nice to have and we need to work on the defensive front, its more then that..17 Injuries' didnt help our 6-10 season, it simply wasn't just defense last year..the Offense kept turning it over, coaches calling crazy plays, and couldn't run etc the team went 6-10 most ly due to massive amounts injuries..

kind of hard to win using 4 QBs and 3rd string Ol no matter your defensive front, as much as that would have helped, injurys were the most to blame for our bad 2020.
It is a team game where all 3 phases attribute to wins and losses. However, if you cannot protect or pressure the QB, a team's chance for success goes drastically down.
 

T-RO

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Just 26 points with 3 defensive turnovers.

Those turnovers were in GB's end of the field. Packer's drives?
-90 yard drive w/virtually no help from run game. TD Did it all while losing in trenches.
-69 yard FG drive
-75 yard drive TD
-60 yard TD drive
-58 yard FG drive

Tampa Bay didn't "shut down" Packers by winning trenches.

And when Tampa Bay forced turnovers? Both created by defensive backs!
 

T-RO

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If you "trenches-dominate-football" folks are going to even make this debate interesting...You MUST answer me this.

How do Chief get to Super Bowl with this offensive line?!?
Allegretti 7th round pick $580k
Reiter 7th round pick $ 2.2 mil
Wylie Undrafted $750k
Remmers Undrafted. $1.1 mil
Wisniewski Steelers waived, Chiefs claimed in November. $1 mil

These guys succeed because the Chiefs almost never try to maul opponents in the run (misdirection, traps, reverses), and in pass protection they don't have to do much! Mahomes gets the ball out fast, or he's rolling out, dodging, etc.
 

Beaker42

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What I saw today was two teams that were able to contain a ground game, play extra men in coverage and frustrate two future, hall of fame QB's. The difference was Tampa Bay was able to generate consistent pressure with their front four, where Green Bay could not. It's that simple, win the trenches, win the game!

Certainly it doesn't help when you have a bonehead HC not going for it down 8 late in the game inside the 10 nor a CB who has no understanding of time getting beat beat at the end of the half.

I don't want to hear people complain when the team doesn't make the exciting, wow pick at 10 this year and takes another offensive lineman or defensive lineman in rd 1 and a two down run DT in rd two. Someone said recently, can you name the starting secondary for the Washington Football Team? Not many can and they are one of the best defenses in the entire league due to their front 4.
I hate to say it but we ALMOST NEED TO go OT at 10 if we can’t get Farley or Surtain. If Farley or Surtain are there, we need to grab one of them then trade up into top of 2nd and get best available LT then go best DT in the 3rd.

My ideal line would be new LT, La’el back at LG, Biadasz at C, Zack back at RG and Tyron at RT until he gets hurt then plug in Williams or Erving or some other swing T.
 

Beaker42

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Well for who we had there yeah he was. In a vacuum yes you would’ve wanted to go defense, but in the actuality of who was available there Lamb was the best pick. The consensus other choice was Chaisson and he was cheeks this year. He’s on bust watch.
Way early for that - gotta give him 2 seasons+ Like we have Hill. Steeper learning curve for D players than O players.
 

Beaker42

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Its sad people are slowly figuring this out. A solid DL that is able to contain the run and get pressure on the quarterback is essential.

A bad DL will make a good secondary look average.
A good / great DL will make a bad or average secondary look good

And lets not forget the other major factor...scheme
Coach needs to work around with the talent provided not force schemes that don't work with lazy/ dumb players
You didn’t cover any of our combos...bad DL makes bad DB’s look like hot garbage.
 

quickccc

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I hate to say it but we ALMOST NEED TO go OT at 10 if we can’t get Farley or Surtain. If Farley or Surtain are there, we need to grab one of them then trade up into top of 2nd and get best available LT then go best DT in the 3rd.

My ideal line would be new LT, La’el back at LG, Biadasz at C, Zack back at RG and Tyron at RT until he gets hurt then plug in Williams or Erving or some other swing T.

- I'm on board with which ever the McClay group sees as the best player and highest rated player according to their draft board.
- If they have Farley and/or Surtain Jr rated clearly above Slater, ..i'll be on board and respect that.
- If they have Slater rated higher as the more regarded player than the two CBs, i'll be on board with that as well.

- If Slater has to play LG for one year (even over both Conners) before he moves out to LT permanently (same way we did with rookie Tyron Smith) ..i'm on board with that.
But a top 10 overall pick guy has to start somewhere on the OL, imo. As sure not gonna be redshirted because he is a rookie.

- That will leave us with Williams and Knight to flex as backup OTs... and McGovern to battle Williams/Knigh for a backup OG role .

- If we pick Slater at 10th overall, then it's looking like immediate defense help later in 2nd and 3rd rounds.(we have two 3rd rounders, one high, one at bottom round)
and its not out of the question about moving up a package for an irresistible player .

- If we pick Slater and coaches decide that they want him starting at LT, day one... then i see it that Tyron is gonna be asked to immediately retire.. or be a post June 1st cut.
 

Beaker42

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- I'm on board with which ever the McClay group sees as the best player and highest rated player according to their draft board.
- If they have Farley and/or Surtain Jr rated clearly above Slater, ..i'll be on board and respect that.
- If they have Slater rated higher as the more regarded player than the two CBs, i'll be on board with that as well.

- If Slater has to play LG for one year (even over both Conners) before he moves out to LT permanently (same way we did with rookie Tyron Smith) ..i'm on board with that.
But a top 10 overall pick guy has to start somewhere on the OL, imo. As sure not gonna be redshirted because he is a rookie.

- That will leave us with Williams and Knight to flex as backup OTs... and McGovern to battle Williams/Knigh for a backup OG role .

- If we pick Slater at 10th overall, then it's looking like immediate defense help later in 2nd and 3rd rounds.(we have two 3rd rounders, one high, one at bottom round)
and its not out of the question about moving up a package for an irresistible player .

- If we pick Slater and coaches decide that they want him starting at LT, day one... then i see it that Tyron is gonna be asked to immediately retire.. or be a post June 1st cut.
X factor is JUST HOW BAD WAS/IS COLLINS HURT??? For all we know, we need both new OT’s. We can’t do all through draft, our FO needs to quit being obtuse and get help in FA. Simmons or Maye and a decent LB. Get what else we can through draft.
 
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Beaker42

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One more point that pertains to both line groups: Limit penalties
OLine- false starts, holding
DLine- encroachment, roughing the passer
90% of all RTP penalties are total horseMM. Accidental brush to the helmet because the OL moved guy’s arm into it. Low hit that’s not low,
 
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