D still wins championships

Starforever · Feb 9, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Lol what is your point?

I just watched Tom Brady win his 7th Super Bowl on a team that most likely doesn’t sniff the post season without him.

But they would not have gone anywhere without that defense. Rodgers, Mahomes, Brees, Dak, Big Ben, etc... could have did the same.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 9, 2021

Dre11 said:
get me a middle of the pack defense , top 15 in scoring and top 15 in TOs with this offense, and we'll compete

I agree with this. Give us a middle of the pack defence to go with this offense, and I think we'd be in the SB if not winning it.

BHendri5 · Feb 10, 2021

Starforever said:
Not trying to be combatant, but the job of the defense is to prevent the other team from scoring. If they get any turnovers, while doing their jobs, thats gravy. Four field goals, by Special Teams, would have won the game. KC's offense, did not score, it was their Special Teams. The KC defense, played like they were going to run it back; best two out of three.

Just chopping it up not taking any offense to responses, as long as they are talking real football and not trying to offend. True, KC special team did score the points, and defenses job is to keep other team from scoring, but without any turnovers but if the other team is just as effective on defense no one scores so how will the defense win the game/championship? Games have been finished at a deadlock correct and no one won, so did the defense win the game? The object is to score more than your opponent, correct? So it’s stated that there is 3 phases to the game, offense, defense and special teams, if you win two of the three you should win the game.

so let’s break it down some more which side would you consider the punt return to be and which side is the field goal team, we all know that the kick off team is on the defensive side and kick return is on the offensive side.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 10, 2021

BHendri5 said:
Just chopping it up not taking any offense to responses, as long as they are talking real football and not trying to offend. True, KC special team did score the points, and defenses job is to keep other team from scoring, but without any turnovers but if the other team is just as effective on defense no one scores so how will the defense win the game/championship? Games have been finished at a deadlock correct and no one won, so did the defense win the game? The object is to score more than your opponent, correct? So it’s stated that there is 3 phases to the game, offense, defense and special teams, if you win two of the three you should win the game.

so let’s break it down some more which side would you consider the punt return to be and which side is the field goal team, we all know that the kick off team is on the defensive side and kick return is on the offensive side.

Well, of course we need the offense to play well, but the defence helps with field position as well as keeping the opponents off the field.

Starforever · Feb 10, 2021

BHendri5 said:
Just chopping it up not taking any offense to responses, as long as they are talking real football and not trying to offend. True, KC special team did score the points, and defenses job is to keep other team from scoring, but without any turnovers but if the other team is just as effective on defense no one scores so how will the defense win the game/championship? Games have been finished at a deadlock correct and no one won, so did the defense win the game? The object is to score more than your opponent, correct? So it’s stated that there is 3 phases to the game, offense, defense and special teams, if you win two of the three you should win the game.

so let’s break it down some more which side would you consider the punt return to be and which side is the field goal team, we all know that the kick off team is on the defensive side and kick return is on the offensive side.

All of what you stated is correct, but both offense and defense work together, along with special teams. If the defenses were switched on last Sunday, it would be a totally different story. Tampa Bay, would have lost the game. KC, played like they were in mid-season form, not in a championship. This is just my humble opinion.

Aviano90 · Feb 10, 2021

Furboy said:
Well, of course we need the offense to play well, but the defence helps with field position as well as keeping the opponents off the field.

Yup. Just look at our 3 game winning streak late this year and see the field position the offense was getting.

BHendri5 · Feb 10, 2021

Starforever said:
All of what you stated is correct, but both offense and defense work together, along with special teams. If the defenses were switched on last Sunday, it would be a totally different story. Tampa Bay, would have lost the game. KC, played like they were in mid-season form, not in a championship. This is just my humble opinion.

Agree they all work together , OP said that D wins championships like all you need is a good defense to championship, I say that is false defense helps but you have to score more than the other team that is the way that you win but defense helps and as you stated they all work together.

kskboys · Feb 10, 2021

Furboy said:
I agree with this. Give us a middle of the pack defence to go with this offense, and I think we'd be in the SB if not winning it.

Only if that middle of the pack D can make stops. That's why middle of the pack D's don't win super bowls, for the most part.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 10, 2021

kskboys said:
Only if that middle of the pack D can make stops. That's why middle of the pack D's don't win super bowls, for the most part.

Oh, for sure. As long as they can make stops, I think our offense can carry us.

kskboys · Feb 10, 2021

Furboy said:
Oh, for sure. As long as they can make stops, I think our offense can carry us.

D's that can make stops are not middle of the pack D's. Only Bellychickens can achieve that, no other team does it.

So, you're looking for a top 10 D if you want to compete for super bowls. And in all likelihood, top 5. Aaron Rodgers has never made a super bowl w/o a top 5 D.

Doomsday101 · Feb 10, 2021

It also works the other way, 2015 season Denver wins the SB they have a middle of the pack offense avg about 22 points a game but they have a defense lead by Vonn Miller who gave up 18 points a game had 52 sacks on the season and 14 ints. They dominated through out the season and in post season. Bottom line is teams with big holes in offense or defense do not win jack. You need a solid team who can play good offense and defense

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 10, 2021

kskboys said:
D's that can make stops are not middle of the pack D's. Only Bellychickens can achieve that, no other team does it.

So, you're looking for a top 10 D if you want to compete for super bowls. And in all likelihood, top 5. Aaron Rodgers has never made a super bowl w/o a top 5 D.

Well, the good news is, if we can build our D with the players available in the draft, then we may be able to propel into a top D. I did a pair of mock drafts that I think can propel us into that kind of defence. It would fix a lot of issues on our D. The only catch is, of course, they'd be rookies. But it should get us at least pretty far into the playoffs for this upcoming season.

eromeopolk · Feb 10, 2021

Furboy said:
The biggest takeaways that I got from this game was that defence still wins championships and you have to be balanced on offense. The Bucs won the Super Bowl because they played elite defence from basically start to finish, and because the Chiefs didn't run the football. Jason Pierre-Paul, Vita Vea, and Lamonte David were in Mahomes' face pretty much the entire time. They took away Tyreek Hill and basically told the Chiefs to try to beat them without Hill. The end result was 9 points. Meanwhile, the Chiefs couldn't stop the run at all, and Brady was able to rip them apart as a result. Morale of the story: play balanced offense and build this defence. If you want to have a chance, make the defence afraid of both the run and pass. On the other side of the ball, play good defence, and you'll typically win. Jerry Jones needs to build this defence this off-season so we can have a chance to compete next season.

Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since 1995, that is why you saw all those Ex Dallas Cowboys defensive players winning Super Bowls on other teams.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 10, 2021

eromeopolk said:
Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since 1995, that is why you saw all those Ex Dallas Cowboys defensive players winning Super Bowls on other teams.

Well yeah, because we do a poor job of drafting D, and, when we do draft good players, our FO prefers the offensive players like Zeke, and we do a poor job of retaining what D talent we do have.

blueblood70 · Feb 10, 2021

NO TEAMS and coaching Win championship you have to have more the defense now days because an offense can destroy even a #1 defense when its on..you see that first bucs kc rs game?

Look Jameis doesnt bring bucs to sb let alone win over KC , TB12 did period without his leadership and the ability to get Gronk here with him , bucs dont get past the 2nd round if they even made the payoffs

it took both a complete team and also a game 1 regular's season game as practice run and made adjustments after that loss during the 2 week prep for the sb..it all helped..

the QB is as important as good d..its called TEAM win or TEAM loss for reason..

also little luck goes along way ie KC OL being heavily damaged at the right moment and have the wrs have their worst day as chielf...that bit of luck IMO

fans are way overreading all sides of this wasn't JUST TOM and wasn't Just agreat D..team win

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 10, 2021

blueblood70 said:
NO TEAMS and coaching Win championship you have to have more the defense now days because an offense can destroy even a #1 defense when its on..you see that first bucs kc rs game?

Look Jameis doesnt bring bucs to sb let alone win over KC , TB12 did period without his leadership and the ability to get Gronk here with him , bucs dont get past the 2nd round if they even made the payoffs

it took both a complete team and also a game 1 regular's season game as practice run and made adjustments after that loss during the 2 week prep for the sb..it all helped..

the QB is as important as good d..its called TEAM win or TEAM loss for reason..

also little luck goes along way ie KC OL being heavily damaged at the right moment and have the wrs have their worst day as chielf...that bit of luck IMO

fans are way overreading all sides of this wasn't JUST TOM and wasn't Just agreat D..team win

I agree, but my point is more about the fact that we need to build our defence. What we had this season is NEVER going to work. As you said, it's a team game, and, when you have one phase of the game playing horrifically bad like our defence, that simply won't work. If we are to have a chance, we need to build that. Tom Brady would not have done well here because of how bad our defence is.

Starforever · Feb 10, 2021

blueblood70 said:
NO TEAMS and coaching Win championship you have to have more the defense now days because an offense can destroy even a #1 defense when its on..you see that first bucs kc rs game?

Look Jameis doesnt bring bucs to sb let alone win over KC , TB12 did period without his leadership and the ability to get Gronk here with him , bucs dont get past the 2nd round if they even made the payoffs

it took both a complete team and also a game 1 regular's season game as practice run and made adjustments after that loss during the 2 week prep for the sb..it all helped..

the QB is as important as good d..its called TEAM win or TEAM loss for reason..

also little luck goes along way ie KC OL being heavily damaged at the right moment and have the wrs have their worst day as chielf...that bit of luck IMO

fans are way overreading all sides of this wasn't JUST TOM and wasn't Just agreat D..team win

The first game did not have the same dynamics as the superbowl. The Tampa defense, was not clicking at that time, and KC's offense prevailed. With given time for maturity, the Tampa defense came into the playoffs hot, and KC believed the same game plan would work. Tsk Tsk Tsk

Ranched · Feb 10, 2021

Not necessarily. :muttley:

Super Bowl XXIV: 49ers 55, Broncos 10
No. 1 Offense: San Francisco (27.6)
No. 1 Defense: Denver (14.1)

blueblood70 · Feb 10, 2021

Starforever said:
The first game did not have the same dynamics as the superbowl. The Tampa defense, was not clicking at that time, and KC's offense prevailed. With given time for maturity, the Tampa defense came into the playoffs hot, and KC believed the same game plan would work. Tsk Tsk Tsk

SAME GAME Plan umm no and i thought AR, Bienemy and that coaching staff were genius', so coaches do depend on great players playing great?? wasn't close to the same OL and KC WRs dropped those clutch throws they usually catch, also a lot of penalties didnt help.. you are way off base..

it was used as a good film not far apart and experience on what not to do and KC had better OL and their receivers caught everything. You miss the point of that game was a good run through for them.. also the luck on when you play team, KC OL and WRs decided to have bad game at worst time and that favored TB..

Doomsday101 · Feb 10, 2021

daboyzruleperiod said:
Not necessarily.
Super Bowl XXIV: 49ers 55, Broncos 10
No. 1 Offense: San Francisco (27.6)
No. 1 Defense: Denver (14.1)

True, there is no one set rule in developing a SB winning team. It is not who throws the ball more or who runs the best, who has the greatest defense. Every SB winner plays to their own strength, they make minimal mistake (aka they don't beat themselves) and have no glaring weakness and they play as a team. For the 9ers to win 55 to 10 shows their defense did not give up jack in that game so how bad was the 9ers defense?

D still wins championships

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