Rob Phillips - What's Next for TE?

exciter · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
There aren't. Parsons is an off-ball LB who certainly has flaws to his game and there hasn't been a corner drafted in the top 10 in the last decade who was worth the investment...hardly even any in the top 20. Here's all of the top-20 corners dating back to 2010, bold is top 10.

2010: Joe Haden, Kareem Jackson
2011: Patrick Peterson, Prince Amukamara
2012: Morris Claiborne, Stephon Gilmore, Dre Kirkpatrick
2013: Dee Milliner, DJ Hayden
2014: Justin Gilbert, Kyle Fuller\
2015: Trae Waynes, Kevin Johnson, Marcus Peters
2016: Jalen Ramsey, Eli Apple, Vernon Hargreaves
2017: Marshon Lattimore, Marlon Humphrey, Adoree Jackson
2018: Denzel Ward, Jaire Alexander
2020: Jeff Okudah, CJ Henderson, AJ Terrell, Damon Arnette

The hit rate of a guy being worth a top-10 pick at corner is what, 10%?

Lol! So how many TE taken in that range lived up to their pick? Seems I can remember several being bust!

nalam · Feb 11, 2021

Safety or LB or DT should be the first pick , but need a contributor this year in shoring up the defence

Avery · Feb 11, 2021

If our defense weren't so bad, you could probably consider someone like Pitts more as a good TE makes a dangerous offense KC-like, but I think our stable can be decent enough.

Tight ends drafted in top 20 this millennium. There really hasn't been a dominant TE drafted high in the last 15 years:

2019 - TJ Hockenson (8), Noah Fant (20)
2017 - OJ Howard (19)
2014 - Eric Ebron (10)
2009 - Brandon Pettigrew (20)
2006 - Vernon Davis (6)
2004 - Kellen Winslow Jr (6)
2002 - Jeremy Shockey (14)
2000 - Bubba Franks (14)

Future · Feb 11, 2021

exciter said:
Lol! So how many TE taken in that range lived up to their pick? Seems I can remember several being bust!

Pitts isn't really a TE..but that's besides the point.

There aren't several defensive players worthy of th epick at 10. There really aren't any, so offense is your best bet to get value at #10.

LACowboysFan1 · Feb 11, 2021

speedkilz88 said:
I want defense, but playing devil's advocate what if your scouts have Pitts as a bluechip - he's the next Tony Gonzalez and all the defensive players they have left are considered much lower that it's not even close?

How many SB teams did Gonzales play on? His teams were 1-6 in the playoffs.

LACowboysFan1 · Feb 11, 2021

DoctorChicken said:
I think Schultz has earned the starting job, but I like Jarwin as the more athletic guy. I’d like to see both utilized.

Well you have to have at least 2, so I don't think there's any question you need both...

exciter · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
Pitts isn't really a TE..but that's besides the point.

There aren't several defensive players worthy of th epick at 10. There really aren't any, so offense is your best bet to get value at #10.

Lol!

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
Pitts isn't really a TE..but that's besides the point.

There aren't several defensive players worthy of th epick at 10. There really aren't any, so offense is your best bet to get value at #10.

Frankly, that's why I want a trade down to begin with, however, I very much would prefer someone like Farley, Surtain, Barrmore, Horn, or, depending on how he rises in the draft, Moerhig in the first round over Pitts. They fit our needs better, which means that we get a more immediate impact from them in a position that we need. With our WRs, Zeke, Pollard, and Dak at QB, we don't need a high caliber TE. We can afford a few hamburgers on offense because we have a lot of steak on that side of the ball. Unfortunately, we have a lot of hamburgers at best on defence and very little steak. Unfortunately, Jerry doesn't go to the FA market very much, so we kinda have to rely on the draft to find that steak.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
We saw in the Super Bowl why you need to invest premium resources on the offensive line. That is literally the only lesson to take from that.

The Bucs pass defense was entirely average all year. It's no coincidence that they didn't get better until they played OLs missing half their starters.

Which would be good, and that's where Aleric Jackson in the middle of the draft comes in. We shouldn't need to have him start immediately, but he's able to if we need him to. However, the rest of our defence needs to improve MASSIVELY. If for no other reason than to keep the opposition from putting up 30+ points a game on us. When we're scoring 30+ points a game, those SHOULD be COMFORTABLE wins. Not shootouts! Yet, we were in shootouts when scoring that much because our defence was so poor. With the teams we play next year, we had BETTER improve our defence. Trade down from the 10th overall pick, collect as many picks as possible, and load up on defence as much as possible.

Future · Feb 11, 2021

Furboy said:
Which would be good, and that's where Aleric Jackson in the middle of the draft comes in. We shouldn't need to have him start immediately, but he's able to if we need him to. However, the rest of our defence needs to improve MASSIVELY. If for no other reason than to keep the opposition from putting up 30+ points a game on us. When we're scoring 30+ points a game, those SHOULD be COMFORTABLE wins. Not shootouts! Yet, we were in shootouts when scoring that much because our defence was so poor. With the teams we play next year, we had BETTER improve our defence. Trade down from the 10th overall pick, collect as many picks as possible, and load up on defence as much as possible.

The biggest improvement for the defense will come from the offense improves.

31-27 is the new 24-20. Opponents are going to score, you're not going to cruise to wins with any consistency scoring 31 points.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
The biggest improvement for the defense will come from the offense improves.

31-27 is the new 24-20. Opponents are going to score, you're not going to cruise to wins with any consistency scoring 31 points.

Our offense is already borderline elite though. As I said, we have a lot more steak on offense than we do defence. Our defence was one of the worst of all time! Considering we play AT the Chiefs and AT the Buccaneers this year, we had BETTER fix this defence! We NEED our defence to at least get more stops this year. Just a few more stops. Our offense can take care of the rest. We couldn't stop the run to save our lives last year.

Future · Feb 11, 2021

Furboy said:
Our offense is already borderline elite though. As I said, we have a lot more steak on offense than we do defence. Our defence was one of the worst of all time! Considering we play AT the Chiefs and AT the Buccaneers this year, we had BETTER fix this defence! We NEED our defence to at least get more stops this year. Just a few more stops. Our offense can take care of the rest. We couldn't stop the run to save our lives last year.

See also: the final 4 teams in the playoffs.

There is no fixing the defense in the way that people want. In the NFL you hope your defense is average and you build an offense good enough to compensate. The defense will look better next year just because of schedule and the fact that the offense isn't going to have the same fumble issues it had early in the season.

There is no such thing as a championship defense in the NFL. If you don't make the passing game your top priority, you have no shot at winning a Super Bowl. The Rams, Ravens and Titans all invest heavily - resources and philosophy - in areas other than throwing the football, and it kills them. The Bears and Commanders have gone short on quarterback and are terrible. The Seahawks have wasted Russ by trying to run the the ball, and also don't have a defense.

Throw the ball to win and let other pieces fall into place. There's no other strategy that matters.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
See also: the final 4 teams in the playoffs.

There is no fixing the defense in the way that people want. In the NFL you hope your defense is average and you build an offense good enough to compensate. The defense will look better next year just because of schedule and the fact that the offense isn't going to have the same fumble issues it had early in the season.

There is no such thing as a championship defense in the NFL. If you don't make the passing game your top priority, you have no shot at winning a Super Bowl. The Rams, Ravens and Titans all invest heavily - resources and philosophy - in areas other than throwing the football, and it kills them. The Bears and Commanders have gone short on quarterback and are terrible. The Seahawks have wasted Russ by trying to run the the ball, and also don't have a defense.

Throw the ball to win and let other pieces fall into place. There's no other strategy that matters.

Except the problem with that is that our defence couldn't stop the run to save their lives. I'm not asking for the defence to be the 1985 Bears. I'm asking for us to get them to a level where they can at least stop the run and get more takeaways. Things our defence did not do well at all. Even against the Giants. Last game of the season. A play where literally everyone knew the Giants were going to run the football, and they still ripped off a 15 yard run. The only reason that play didn't go for a TD was because their clumsy running back fumbled but managed to get back on it. Think the Bucs and Chiefs won't try to run the ball on us knowing that's our Achilles heel? Think they'll try to throw the ball all over us? Why do that when you can rip off 15 yard runs on this defence while barely breaking a sweat? This defence is ****! It's not even average! If we can get it at least average, then that's what we need to do! Get players that can at least not be completely useless at stopping the run. We have Dak. We have Zeke. We have 3 ELITE WRs. We are in GREAT shape on offense as it is.

Future · Feb 11, 2021

Furboy said:
Except the problem with that is that our defence couldn't stop the run to save their lives.

This doesn't matter if you can throw the ball.

It's also a wildly exaggerated problem based on basically three halves of football.

Beaker42 · Feb 11, 2021

Hardline said:
The strength of this draft is offense. You can get an equivalent defensive player in the 2nd round.
We need a Gronkowski more than we need a 2nd tier defensive player.

Farley won’t be 2nd tier ...... or Ojulari.

Beaker42 · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
This doesn't matter if you can throw the ball.

It's also a wildly exaggerated problem based on basically three halves of football.

Back to run D doesn’t matter straw man. Dude, teams run on us because we couldn’t stop an anorexic 15 yr old girl from getting 200 on us.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Future said:
This doesn't matter if you can throw the ball.

It's also a wildly exaggerated problem based on basically three halves of football.

We can throw the ball. THat's not the issue. The issue is that we were atrocious at stopping the run.

Future · Feb 11, 2021

Beaker42 said:
Back to run D doesn’t matter straw man. Dude, teams run on us because we couldn’t stop an anorexic 15 yr old girl from getting 200 on us.

No, they ran because we couldn't score. The run defense wasn't a problem when Dak was healthy.

Before you mention the Browns game, the pass defense was the bigger issue.

Future · Feb 11, 2021

Furboy said:
We can throw the ball. THat's not the issue. The issue is that we were atrocious at stopping the run.

Nope. Dallas could not throw the ball last year. When Dak was healthy, the pass defense was considerably worse than the run defense.

Like honestly. Did anybody watch the Titans and Ravens the last two years? Teams do not fear them because they do not care about the run game, because it doesn't lead to points.

RustyBourneHorse · Feb 11, 2021

Beaker42 said:
Back to run D doesn’t matter straw man. Dude, teams run on us because we couldn’t stop an anorexic 15 yr old girl from getting 200 on us.

Exactly! As I stated, everyone knew that the Giants were going to run it on us in the last game of the season. They still got a huge gain and nearly got a TD if not for the fact that their clumsy RB fumbled.......which we couldn't recover. The Browns KILLED us on the ground! They even got a 50 yard TD on the REVERSE with OBJ! Not a first down. Not a 20 yard gain. A TOUCHDOWN! Oh, and we had him deep in the backfield and STILL couldn't make the tackle! I sure hope he doesn't think Jaylon Smith is sufficient.

Rob Phillips - What's Next for TE?

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