How do fans determine whether it’s the QB or team holding them back?

Diehardblues · Feb 21, 2021

Irvin88_4life said:
Bears have a good defense no doubt but they also put resources into that side of the ball. Trubisky gets a lot of blame but what weapons does he really have? Plus Nagy just isn't good with the offense and it can be said that the offense has taken a step back

That’s possible and fair argument but most good QB the teams have more success if they have a good defense. So, there QB situation is suspect there.

The Rams just made a huge trade because they believe they have a great enough defense that a good or better QB will have more success.

Carnes · Feb 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
The eye test is too subjective . Too often we associate winning teams with the best QB’s.

But as fans that is how we judge.

Irvin88_4life · Feb 21, 2021

Diehardblues said:
That’s possible and fair argument but most good QB the teams have more success if they have a good defense. So, there QB situation is suspect there.

The Rams just made a huge trade because they believe they have a great enough defense that a good or better QB will have more success.

Trubisky has went to the playoffs 2 of 3 years with a tough division in GB and Minnesota. His 2019 year was pretty good.

Rams was in the superbowl not so long ago and has offensive weapons. Not comparable to Chicago

big dog cowboy · Feb 21, 2021

USArmyVet said:
So what explains 2016-2019 when Dallas' defense was giving up between 19-20 points per game average???? 2020 was a debacle of a season defensively and everyone recognizes that but the Dallas defense was not horrible in Dak's first 4 seasons.

GARRETT

Seven · Feb 22, 2021

Risen Star said:
Just ask me. I'll never steer you wrong.

You're such a dork.....but you're our little dork.

Seven · Feb 22, 2021

CATCH17 said:
I think everyone is agreement the team needs to be better..

The pay Dak guys think Jerry Jones will create football utopia.

Liar.

No one believes Jed will create anything but revenue.

Pathetic.......

Flamma · Feb 22, 2021

Diehardblues said:
There’s many fans who appear to be divided on whether it’s our QB or defense holding us back from more success. And it’s a fair argument .

Im curious how fans determine these factors. I mean how do they know for a fact if a team is struggling to go further in the playoffs, etc is because of their QB or other contributing factors.

We know good QB’s can be on bad teams and bad QB’s can be on good teams. I’d be curious of some of the examples out there where bad QB’s are holding back good teams and bad teams are holding back good QB’s.

Winston on Tampa Bay and Nick Foles on the Eagles are two good examples. I don't think I need to explain Winston. With Foles, he can be pretty good as long as supporting cast is very good around him. As soon as he went to the Jags and the Bears, not so much. But sometimes it's really hard to tell.

USArmyVet · Feb 22, 2021

Nav22 said:
Dallas went 40-24 from 2016-19.

Is that supposed to be bad?

2016: 13-3
2017: 9-7
2018: 10-6
2019: 8-8

Great year in 2016 and yes, those 4 years equate to 40-24......but from 2017-2019 the record is 27-21.....so somewhat of a backwards trend taking place.

USArmyVet · Feb 22, 2021

big dog cowboy said:
GARRETT

Garrett is not the primary reason but ok.

CowboysFaninHouston · Feb 22, 2021

Diehardblues said:
I think we’ve exhausted these discussions on Dak and the Cowboys. I was looking for comparisons from other teams and QB’s.

ok, but wouldn't we have to take into account all aspects of the "team" including coaching, defense....

Diehardblues · Feb 22, 2021

CowboysFaninHouston said:
ok, but wouldn't we have to take into account all aspects of the "team" including coaching, defense....

Yes that could be part of the contributing factors.

But I was looking more for a broadstroke assessment at other teams where the perception is a bad team is holding back a good QB or a bad QB is holding back the team.

Diehardblues · Feb 22, 2021

Flamma said:
Winston on Tampa Bay and Nick Foles on the Eagles are two good examples. I don't think I need to explain Winston. With Foles, he can be pretty good as long as supporting cast is very good around him. As soon as he went to the Jags and the Bears, not so much. But sometimes it's really hard to tell.

Those are the kind of examples I was looking for.

CowboysFaninHouston · Feb 22, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Yes that could be part of the contributing factors.

But I was looking more for a broadstroke assessment at other teams where the perception is a bad team is holding back a good QB or a bad QB is holding back the team.

I think each might need its own assessment, it would be difficult to do broad brush, although bad QBs do hold teams back significantly...for example, Jamies Winston was issue in Tampsa that went 7-9. They lost 6 games by one score or less (not expecting to win all of them), and 4 games with less than 4 points. Jamies threw 30+ interceptions. its logical to say, he contributed to at least 3 losses as a result. they could have easily been 10-7. in comes Brady, less interceptions and they win 11.

aikemirv · Feb 22, 2021

Diehardblues said:
But who’s holding the team back more. Is the QB or defense worse?

With Dak it is not about "holding the team back" it is about carrying the weight of 40 mill of cap space. I only think there is about 3 guys who can even remotely possibly do that.

Did Mahommes salary take away from a reasonably talented backup at Tackle. I think Mahommes has the talent to carry that weight but just put a couple injuries on the board and the depth you could have had is gone and you are faced with what he faced in the Superbowl where he can't even have time to display his talent. That game reminded me of Romo versus Minnesota playoff game where the pressure was immediate and nothing the QB could do.

Diehardblues · Feb 22, 2021

aikemirv said:
With Dak it is not about "holding the team back" it is about carrying the weight of 40 mill of cap space. I only think there is about 3 guys who can even remotely possibly do that.

Did Mahommes salary take away from a reasonably talented backup at Tackle. I think Mahommes has the talent to carry that weight but just put a couple injuries on the board and the depth you could have had is gone and you are faced with what he faced in the Superbowl where he can't even have time to display his talent. That game reminded me of Romo versus Minnesota playoff game where the pressure was immediate and nothing the QB could do.

I’m not a Cap expert but if overpaying 3-5 million on a 180 million Cap I doubt prevents this team from having more success anymore than some of the other contracts.

If there’s a position you overpay it's the QB.

CowboyRoy · Feb 23, 2021

Diehardblues said:
There’s many fans who appear to be divided on whether it’s our QB or defense holding us back from more success. And it’s a fair argument .

Im curious how fans determine these factors. I mean how do they know for a fact if a team is struggling to go further in the playoffs, etc is because of their QB or other contributing factors.

We know good QB’s can be on bad teams and bad QB’s can be on good teams. I’d be curious of some of the examples out there where bad QB’s are holding back good teams and bad teams are holding back good QB’s.

Any fan that can’t figure out our defense is the problem is football dumb.

When your offense breaks the all time nfl record for offense, scores 37 points a game and you go 1-3, your qb isn’t the problem. When your qb throws for 500 yards and 4 tds and you lose, it’s not the qb.

or you could just watch the games.

CowboyRoy · Feb 23, 2021

USArmyVet said:
So what explains 2016-2019 when Dallas' defense was giving up between 19-20 points per game average???? 2020 was a debacle of a season defensively and everyone recognizes that but the Dallas defense was not horrible in Dak's first 4 seasons.

What is there to explain troll? 13-3, 9-7, 11-5.

DandyDon52 · Feb 23, 2021

Diehardblues said:
But who’s holding the team back more. Is the QB or defense worse?

well it would be the defense, thats easy.
But there are many flaws/anchors dragging the cowboys down, those are just 2 things.
Coaches
jones boys
culture
drafting
FA aquistions
not having a plan, just fix things each year.
Dont have a real GM
Dont have a good HC
All these are cowboys problems, and the jones boys you cant get rid of them, and they cause the other problems, so no Super bowls for cowboys.
Just getting to playoffs and winning wc round is best we can hope for, maybe someday they get past div round and into the champ game,
but I aint seeing that anytime soon.

That is why I no longer care sign dak or not, or how much lol , it doesnt matter. With dak or without him this team isnt going to be a major
contender. Too many issues and anchors.

USArmyVet · Feb 23, 2021

CowboyRoy said:
What is there to explain troll? 13-3, 9-7, 11-5.

Oh look, another childish name calling member who continues to be allowed to spew their BS without penalty. Oh, and for the record I referenced seasons 2016-2019 which is 4 seasons and the team record during those seasons were 13-3, 9-7, 10-6, and 8-8.......so if you are going to try and hurl insults then get your facts straight.

Interesting that the defense performed well during those years yet it still wasn't Dak's fault in your mind.

Diehardblues · Feb 23, 2021

CowboyRoy said:
Any fan that can’t figure out our defense is the problem is football dumb.

When your offense breaks the all time nfl record for offense, scores 37 points a game and you go 1-3, your qb isn’t the problem. When your qb throws for 500 yards and 4 tds and you lose, it’s not the qb.

or you could just watch the games.

Understood. This thread was intended to illustrate other teams examples where bad teams were holding back good QB’s and bad QB’s were holding back good teams in an effort to offer comparisons into the Cowboys situation.

How do fans determine whether it’s the QB or team holding them back?

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