How do fans determine whether it’s the QB or team holding them back?

CowboyRoy

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Oh look, another childish name calling member who continues to be allowed to spew their BS without penalty. Oh, and for the record I referenced seasons 2016-2019 which is 4 seasons and the team record during those seasons were 13-3, 9-7, 10-6, and 8-8.......so if you are going to try and hurl insults then get your facts straight.

Interesting that the defense performed well during those years yet it still wasn't Dak's fault in your mind.
Troll isn’t name calling my little weak kneed cowboy hater. Crying is your new past time now?

So during those years the defense was average and we were winning regularly. Now we’re not and the defense sucks. If your incapable of making the analysis there then your what I say you are. You don’t understand the game.
 
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USArmyVet

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Troll isn’t name calling my little weak kneed cowboy hater. Crying is your new past time now?

So during those years the defense was average and we were winning regularly. Now we’re not and the defense sucks. If your incapable of making the analysis there then your what I say you are. You don’t understand the game.


Okay. One thing you should have learned by now in life is that those with small brains should not cast aspersions against those with a normal sized brain. That said, keep paddling down your river denial.
 

CowboyRoy

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Okay. One thing you should have learned by now in life is that those with small brains should not cast aspersions against those with a normal sized brain. That said, keep paddling down your river denial.

you thought dak was backup material. Enough said.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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They both are holding the team back.

The problem is, the QB seems adamant on bankrupting the team, therefore the defense will continue to be abysmal.

So, its looking like both things are going to hold the team back, but in different ways.
 

InTheZone

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How do fans determine? I can't speak for others.
-I see Dak throw to a WR and it is my opinion that he cannot hit the guy in stride consistently. Yes he has done this, and so has everyone else so save me a replay showing he's done it.
-I see Dak struggle and I know he's trying, but incapable if a defense clamps down. Yes I know all QBs have bad games or slow starts so save me an example.
-I see Dak THINK about running instead of it being an instinctive response and his feet aren't quick whatsoever
-I see Dak hand the ball off way too often on read options when the edge contain has collapsed and the field is wide open.

Since Dak has been the starter he's needed 2 1st round picks at WR I don't know what those picks would've become had it not been for WR, but we have one of, if not, the most expensive offense in the NFL yet I don't feel we're anywhere close to being a great offense. I'm aware we can't control the schedule and pick our defenses, but I'm not a fan of our offense when I know they'll have to carry.
 

CowboyRoy

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How do fans determine? I can't speak for others.
-I see Dak throw to a WR and it is my opinion that he cannot hit the guy in stride consistently. Yes he has done this, and so has everyone else so save me a replay showing he's done it.
-I see Dak struggle and I know he's trying, but incapable if a defense clamps down. Yes I know all QBs have bad games or slow starts so save me an example.
-I see Dak THINK about running instead of it being an instinctive response and his feet aren't quick whatsoever
-I see Dak hand the ball off way too often on read options when the edge contain has collapsed and the field is wide open.

Since Dak has been the starter he's needed 2 1st round picks at WR I don't know what those picks would've become had it not been for WR, but we have one of, if not, the most expensive offense in the NFL yet I don't feel we're anywhere close to being a great offense. I'm aware we can't control the schedule and pick our defenses, but I'm not a fan of our offense when I know they'll have to carry.

yet despite your expert observations under dak they are averaging 32 points per game and are either #1 in passing or #2 in the entire nfl.

I think it’s safe to say that your observations are garbage.

and dalton with the same weapons averaged 21 per game and was one of the worst offenses in the nfl.

let’s just cut to the chase. You dak hating bozos have no clue about the game of football.
 

plymkr

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There’s no doubt contributing factors but which is worse . Personally I’d argue more is h

Regardless, I was looking for examples across the league where good QB that were being held back by bad teams and bad QB holding back good teams. Do you have any ?
Maybe Raiders with Carr. I think the team/organization is not getting the most of his talents.
 

Whirlwin

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Too often we see fans associating winning or losing teams to their QB. But that isn’t always the case.
You win games in the locker room before it even starts. It’s the culture of the team and that starts with coaching. I don’t know how people still don’t get this my cowboy brother
 

InTheZone

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yet despite your expert observations under dak they are averaging 32 points per game and are either #1 in passing or #2 in the entire nfl.

I think it’s safe to say that your observations are garbage.

and dalton with the same weapons averaged 21 per game and was one of the worst offenses in the nfl.

let’s just cut to the chase. You dak hating bozos have no clue about the game of football.
I'm fine with my opinion and have no issues being wrong. You guys throwing insults over a football opinion just speaks volumes about your character as a whole and I'm fine with that as well.
 

Whyjerry

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This is easy. You watch the games. In Dallas it’s pretty clear that when your QB is running for his life but still making plays while the defense is pure Swiss cheese the issue is the broader team. Not the QB.
 
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charron

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With all the weapons brady had he didn't look mahomes amazing. They were just good enough with a stellar defense to lean on.

Steelers have a ton of talent on offense and defense but couldn't overcome their lack of QB talent. We almost beat them with our backups.

When Dak faces defenses of our calibre (really bad), he looks great scoring 30. But against average or better defenses he struggles to put up 20. And we all know we have talent on offense so that's no excuse. We can't lean on a defense to bail them out when our offense struggles. That's the issue.
 

kskboys

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There’s many fans who appear to be divided on whether it’s our QB or defense holding us back from more success. And it’s a fair argument .

Im curious how fans determine these factors. I mean how do they know for a fact if a team is struggling to go further in the playoffs, etc is because of their QB or other contributing factors.

We know good QB’s can be on bad teams and bad QB’s can be on good teams. I’d be curious of some of the examples out there where bad QB’s are holding back good teams and bad teams are holding back good QB’s.
Fans are mostly not capable of this determination.
 

CowboyRoy

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I'm fine with my opinion and have no issues being wrong. You guys throwing insults over a football opinion just speaks volumes about your character as a whole and I'm fine with that as well.
No your right, I cant handle dumb opinions. Need to work on that.

football is such a simple game. It boggles the mind on how you guys get so confused.
 

CowboyRoy

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With all the weapons brady had he didn't look mahomes amazing. They were just good enough with a stellar defense to lean on.

Steelers have a ton of talent on offense and defense but couldn't overcome their lack of QB talent. We almost beat them with our backups.

When Dak faces defenses of our calibre (really bad), he looks great scoring 30. But against average or better defenses he struggles to put up 20. And we all know we have talent on offense so that's no excuse. We can't lean on a defense to bail them out when our offense struggles. That's the issue.
Wrong......cowboys score like 40 against softer defenses and 17 against the #1 d in the nfl. I am assuming you are talking about the rams game. Dak and the cowboys passing and scoring were all above league averaged vs the rams d.

again, you just show a lock of understanding of the game overall.
 

gjkoeppen

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There’s many fans who appear to be divided on whether it’s our QB or defense holding us back from more success. And it’s a fair argument .

Im curious how fans determine these factors. I mean how do they know for a fact if a team is struggling to go further in the playoffs, etc is because of their QB or other contributing factors.

We know good QB’s can be on bad teams and bad QB’s can be on good teams. I’d be curious of some of the examples out there where bad QB’s are holding back good teams and bad teams are holding back good QB’s.





Maybe this will help you. In the last 30 years that hasn't been a Super Bowl winner that didn't have a top 10 defense. The first team I think of that had a average or below average QB that won a Super Bowl is the ravens with Dilfer but they also had a record setting #1 defense. I can't recall any team with a good QB and bad defense that won the Super Bowl. The last 4 years the Cowboys defense hasn't been very good, especially in 2020 being 32nd defense. A good QB helps but a top 10 defense also is needed.
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cowboyed

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How do fans determine whether it’s the QB or team holding them back?

Very myopically...
 

jaythecowboy

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I think everyone is agreement the team needs to be better..

The pay Dak guys think Jerry Jones will create football utopia.

I would argue it's the other way around. The people against paying Dak think Jerry will create a utopia by hitting on drafting a qb when he lucked into the last two qbs and bring in multiple amazing defensive free agents when there is no recent history of them hitting in free agency.
 

CATCH17

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I would argue it's the other way around. The people against paying Dak think Jerry will create a utopia by hitting on drafting a qb when he lucked into the last two qbs and bring in multiple amazing defensive free agents when there is no recent history of them hitting in free agency.

I'm fine if we swing and miss on a QB. I have no problem being terrible.

It's the being mediocre that upsets me. We can't escape it and i'd rather swing for the fence then just keep doing the secret sauce method of mediocrity.

Dak needs far too much around him and we have several bad deals already on the book.

Dallas needs a mini rebuild and the biggest shortcut for this team is trying their hand in the draft at QB.

Signing Dak will keep us mediocre. We have the pieces to win the division and possibly win a wildcard game but him wanting a 3 or 4 year deal making that much money may open a 1 year window for us during that contract.

IMO... We are just like Seattle except they have an actual elite QB. They are a tad bit better defensively and we have a better offensive unit then they do.
 

gjkoeppen

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So what explains 2016-2019 when Dallas' defense was giving up between 19-20 points per game average???? 2020 was a debacle of a season defensively and everyone recognizes that but the Dallas defense was not horrible in Dak's first 4 seasons.




The only year the Cowboys defense was consistent was 2016. From 2017 - 2019 they didn't give up as many points like last season but they also didn't get a lot of turnovers or do a lot of 3 and outs giving the offense shorter fields to work with. They usually had poor starting positions on drives and all teams have a problem scoring TD's on long drives all the time. In 2019 the Cowboys had the #1 offense but but all that means is they scored points and doesn't mean the defense didn't give up more points. Again this last season while Prescott played the Cowboys had the #1 offense, but they also had the 32nd defense.
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