Did you ever root for the bad guy?

Turk said:

Wrong. I have seen very little to indicate they are making the good guys too good for like 30 years. Tell me a recent example of a too good good guy. I am waiting.

No, the problem is they take a character and make him so flawed its ridiculous. THAT is what I see way too much of.

Its like in the remake of the BSG series; with the exception of Adama every major character was so screwed up they never would have been able to fight their way out of a paper bag.

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Jack was ridiculously good in Titanic. He was perfect with no selfishness to the ridiculous point where he was willing to sacrifice himself for a woman he had just met. He even offered to the moment he met her with that silly "you jump, I jump" line. His one and only flaw was being poor.

But you're right that it's possible to make a character too flawed. I don't think they did so in The Verdict. He was super flawed, but he was still extremely smart. But you're totally right that they do that in a lot of shows and movies. The 100 is a show I quit watching because they stretched believability too thin. All of the "heroes" are so full of themselves that you stop caring for them. Plus, they routinely have a 110-pound girl train in fighting for a few weeks and then suddenly she can kick a Mike Tyson-type's ***.

Reverend Conehead said:

Jack was ridiculously good in Titanic. He was perfect with no selfishness to the ridiculous point where he was willing to sacrifice himself for a woman he had just met. He even offered to the moment he met her with that silly "you jump, I jump" line. His one and only flaw was being poor.

But you're right that it's possible to make a character too flawed. I don't think they did so in The Verdict. He was super flawed, but he was still extremely smart. But you're totally right that they do that in a lot of shows and movies. The 100 is a show I quit watching because they stretched believability too thin. All of the "heroes" are so full of themselves that you stop caring for them. Plus, they routinely have a 110-pound girl train in fighting for a few weeks and then suddenly she can kick a Mike Tyson-type's ***.

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Titanic was like 1997. 24 years ago. and one can make allowances for Jack on Titanic. Kate Winslet at that age would make most men act really dumb.

Not a movie but a tv show, a form of entertainment if you will. I liked Stone Cold when they started him as a heel but so did millions of others which is why they changed his character to a good guy aka baby face.

I also liked The Rock and Vince McMahon when they were both “bad” guys.

DakPresgoat said:

The Sopranos is my favorite television series ever.

I think it’s pretty common for fans of the series to find themselves “rooting” for Tony or Christopher or Paulie, Silvio, etc.


even though they are ALL bad guys.

actually I believe the creator David Chase. Purposefully wrote the episode where Ralph beats The young dancer, Tracee to death.

he specifically wrote that episode because he felt too many fans were starting to like
Characters like Ralph, etc and he wanted to make it clear they are the bad guys.

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Let me tell you a couple of three things! Must have watched the Sopranos at least 10 times as I have the Blu-ray’s. I workout everyday so the Sopranos is always in the rotation. Best cast of characters ever, they crack me up always.

I always liked Jack Wilson he is a natural at being the bad guy.

gp_cowpolk said:

I always liked Jack Wilson he is a natural at being the bad guy.

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He set the model of a bad guy really enjoying being bad guy. I met him and for a year after "Shane" was out he couldn't go into a bar or restaurant without someone wanting to fight him. The man was 6'5" and meaner than a PMS rattler in that movie and guys were wanting to fight him? I'd say he was an effective bad guy.

This is one of my favorite bad guys of all time.

Turk said:

Titanic was like 1997. 24 years ago. and one can make allowances for Jack on Titanic. Kate Winslet at that age would make most men act really dumb.

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Now that you mention it, most cases I can think of where they make someone too good are in older shows. That was my main critique of Star Trek the Next Generation. It was a ship full of super high achievers, but so many of them were so good they were boring. For example, Dr. Crusher was such a good person she just never had any edge. The best regular character was Worf because he carried around a lot of anger over his parents having been murdered by the Romulans, then in that one episode where a Romulan needed a transfusion from him to save his life, Worf refused and let him die. But too many of the characters like Beverly and Deana were always just too good and nice. Contrast that with Star Trek 2009 where they made Kirk ridiculously insubordinate as a cadet and then immediately gave him command of a ship. That writing was laughably bad. Anyone who's served in any branch of the military knows that Kirk's huge level of insubordination (stealing a ship as a cadet) would get his butt ssssooooo court martialed. He would have been in Starfleet's version of Levenworth for five decades or so.

So you might be onto something that they've in more recent years overcompensated by making characters too screwed up. I do sometimes still see the "too good" trope nowadays. In Close to Home, Jennifer Finnigan plays a prosecuting attorney who almost always wins her cases. And, of course, she's gorgeous. However, they don't make her perfect. They do give her some insecurities, but nothing major. However, the too perfect character is her husband, Jack. He's model-gorgeous, the type women drool over, but he never really has his own opinions. He's just the stereotypical handsome guy that she comes home to and tells her problems to. And he's always just a supportive nice guy who takes her side, basically just parroting her views back at her. He works in construction, but you never see any signs of that. He never comes some looking dirty or worn out. He's always just the handsome nice guy who agrees with everything she says. There was one time when they started to give him a little edge. It was when she was swamped with multiple cases and stressed out over them. He hugs her in the kitchen and at first you think he's going to be Mr. Nice Guy/Supportive for the ten billionth time, but he starts to make the moves on her to get her in the mood, but she says, sorry, she's just too overloaded with work to do that. Instead of a supportive, "I understand, Honey," he angrily says something like, "Yeah, your work is always more important than making love to your husband" and walks off in a huff. Not a nice thing to do, but it was a human thing, and the first time that character had a smidgen of edge or believability. Other than that, he was just a pretty boy cheerleader without his own identity. That was from 2005 to 207. So the "too good" or "too nice" is still out there, but I think I agree with you that today they're more prone to going the other way. It's like they figured out the too good thing was boring, so they went overboard compensating for it.

DakPresgoat said:

The Sopranos is my favorite television series ever.

I think it’s pretty common for fans of the series to find themselves “rooting” for Tony or Christopher or Paulie, Silvio, etc.


even though they are ALL bad guys.

actually I believe the creator David Chase. Purposefully wrote the episode where Ralph beats The young dancer, Tracee to death.

he specifically wrote that episode because he felt too many fans were starting to like
Characters like Ralph, etc and he wanted to make it clear they are the bad guys.

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Scorsese said he did Goodfellas in a way that showed them for what they were instead of the top down view you saw depicted in the old 30s Gangster flicks and then later on with Godfather. He wanted to show the low level guys wo the class and the prestige; esp that scene where they're burying shoeshine dude with the red in the background. They're serial killers with charm and cool accents. Don't forget that, etc.

Reverend Conehead said:

When I was in high school, the third Star Wars movie, Return of the Jedi, came out. My good friend, Mark, and I were fascinated by Darth Vadar. We watched the first two Star Wars movies on VHS tape, rooting for Darth Vadar; then we went to see the Return of the Jedi on opening day in Honolulu, of course rooting for our man, Darth Vadar.

I know you're supposed to boo and hiss at the villain, but we loved Darth Vadar. Then I took a liking to The Emperor. When Vader kept the Emperor for killing Luke by picking him up and throwing him down that deep pitt on the pace ship, killing him, I nudged Mark in the theater and said, "Bummer, I liked that guy." And he laughed.

We went around at school saying, "We love Darth Vadar, the Emperor, and the EMPIRE!" Other kids would get POed at us for that. The villains are often the most interesting characters. So sometimes I end up kind of liking them.

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A few of us went to see The Empire Strikes Back when it came out, theater was packed with college kids Aggies, we started clapping and cheering when Vader appeared (alcohol might have been involved), I can't describe how much popcorn and candy was thrown at us. good times

I'll root for Gene Hackman if he's the bad guy because he's just so damn good at it.

BigStar said:

Scorsese said he did Goodfellas in a way that showed them for what they were instead of the top down view you saw depicted in the old 30s Gangster flicks and then later on with Godfather. He wanted to show the low level guys wo the class and the prestige; esp that scene where they're burying shoeshine dude with the red in the background. They're serial killers with charm and cool accents. Don't forget that, etc.

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Agreed. Also wanted to show the less glamorous side of their lives.

i always rooted for the undertaker and macho man randy savage.

i thought darth vadar was cool.

i liked dracula,frankenstein,the wolfman and the gill man.

of course i did ........

More root for Bad Guys .. ...

Rooot for da chicken king every time out !! ... Long live Gus Fringe (Breaking Bad - Better Call Saul)

" A guy who opens the door ..and gets Shot ... you think that of ME ?
No.. I AM the one who Knocks .. !!

" You think i am in Danger ? ...No, i am the Danger !!. "

Netflix's Wilson Fisk the Kingpin ......... .

I root for the zombies on The Walking Dead.

Does rooting for the bad guy taking out a badder guy count?