Who is winning championships without a Franchise QB?

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I think you're on drugs if you don't think Brees and Peyton Manning aren't/weren't elite QB's.
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You really need to work on your people skills. I gave you no reason to begin insulting .

And I didn’t mention anything about Brees or Manning not being Elite.

Your reading and comprehensive skills are as poor as people skills.

USArmyVet · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
I’d agree not championship caliber but it was as close as we’ve come to championship appearances which has been the Bar this era with our dysfunctional organization.

Agreed as ever since Jimmy Johnson left (the true architect of the Super Bowl teams which allowed Switzer to lead Dallas to a Super Bowl after he was fired) Jerry Jones has shown time and time again that he has no clue as to how to build a Super Bowl winning organization and his only concern is marketing a team to generate revenue regardless of success.

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Agreed as ever since Jimmy Johnson left (the true architect of the Super Bowl teams which allowed Switzer to lead Dallas to a Super Bowl after he was fired) Jerry Jones has shown time and time again that he has no clue as to how to build a Super Bowl winning organization and his only concern is marketing a team to generate revenue regardless of success.

Yep

Remember in our owner, Pres and GM own words. “Relative and interesting “ are the Bar.

USArmyVet · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Yep

Remember in our owner, Pres and GM own words. “Relative and interesting “ are the Bar.

Yeah well I remember that bar during basic training when it was used to low crawl in the mud under......which is what the Cowboys have turned into as a direct result of JJ.

gjkoeppen · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
You really need to work on your people skills. I game you no reason to begin insulting . Eat crap

I'm sorry but even a casual football fan thinks Brees and Manning were elite QB's so that must leave some other reason why you don't. Now if your feeling get hurt that easily for something that is said here by a lot of people here when someone says dumb things, then you need to toughen up your skin. If you think about it, that is an easy way out to explain why you said something that most consider foolish.
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Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Yeah well I remember that bar during basic training when it was used to low crawl in the mud under......which is what the Cowboys have turned into as a direct result of JJ.

The sooner all Cowboy fans begin adjusting their expectations due to our dysfunctional organization and the lowered Bar this era the sooner we can be on the same thought process .

DandyDon52 · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
List of SB winning Qb in Cap era

Brady
Mahomes
Foles
Manning’s
Wilson
Flacco
Rogers
Brees
Rothleisburger
Johnson
Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Favre
Aikman
Young

Out of 16 winning QB in Cap era. You have basically Foles, Dilfer and Johnson who weren’t Franchise QB’s.

3 Super Bowls out of 26. That’s about 12%. And 2 of 3 had generational defenses . The other a top 5 defense and the QB although not a Franchise QB played at a MVP level.

There simply isn’t a good percentage of winning Super Bowls without a Franchise QB despite whatever cap implications.

most of those only won 1 sb, and they had a good to great defense when they won it.
this is a little messed up because brady has won so many ! lol, what 7 of them, and was in 3 others.
Some of these won then got paid big, and never got back to a SB, only wilson who then lost.

Defense is a key ingredient, very good to great.
you just need a QB who doesnt lose the game and can put up some points.
Eli won with 17 and 21 points. He didnt make mistakes, and made a few good plays.
you dont need a super star passing qb, and I think KC losing this year proves that a great qb and offense just isnt enough if they face a good defense and DC

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I'm sorry but even a casual football fan thinks Brees and Manning were elite QB's so that must leave some other reason why you don't. Now if your feeling get hurt that easily for something that is said here by a lot of people here when someone says dumb things, then you need to toughen up your skin. If you think about it, that is an easy way out to explain why you said something that most consider foolish.
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Again, show me where I said they weren’t Elite?

csirl · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Franchise Tag is indeed signing him. Not long term.

Are you arguing the team isn’t interested in signing him long term?

Yes. He was Garrett's QB. I think JJ likes him also, but MM isnt convinced.

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

DandyDon52 said:
most of those only won 1 sb, and they had a good to great defense when they won it.
this is a little messed up because brady has won so many ! lol, what 7 of them, and was in 3 others.
Some of these won then got paid big, and never got back to a SB, only wilson who then lost.

Defense is a key ingredient, very good to great.
you just need a QB who doesnt lose the game and can put up some points.
Eli won with 17 and 21 points. He didnt make mistakes, and made a few good plays.
you dont need a super star passing qb, and I think KC losing this year proves that a great qb and offense just isnt enough if they face a good defense and DC

Don’t confuse Elite with Franchise QB. Not all Franchise QB ‘a are Elite.

blueblood70 · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
It’s rare. And I’m not talking about Elite QB’s. Just Franchise QB’s.

The only exception is those Generational defenses but even they had closer to a Franchise QB.

Despite however you feel about our QB and or his value , he has us over a barrel. Mostly because we hadn’t caved in earlier seasons. 35 million a year for 4 years he was asking for last year looks pretty good now. We knew it was just going to cost us more by holding out.

Anyway, If the 3 year deal he’s demanding is too much for 41 million, etc which not many would argue , our chances of drafting and developing another franchise QB in the next couple years not very likely.

It’s basically a matter of lesser of two evils. Worse case scenarios.

I certainly see our top 10 offense with an over paid QB more likely to carry a rebuilding defense to a division title and playoffs than without a Franchise QB. And if the offense really gels and we hit in a couple draft picks on defense while a couple previous picks blossom we could have closer to an average defense .

If not then it basically becomes a total rebuild. Who has much hope this dysfunctional organization will get that right. And how many years are we away from being competitive again. I just don’t see how knowing what we know with this leadership we can be hopeful that’s a better alternative.

the eagles did it very recently with backup qb who is clearly not a franchise stsrter..it happens..

how many teams are winning after they paid their qb 35+ million..

gjkoeppen · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Again, show me where I said they weren’t Elite?

I replied to you about the only team with a QB that was average or below average was the ravens and Dilfer and you replied and I'll quote you "I don’t think the Saints and Colts did"
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Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

gjkoeppen said:
I replied to you about the only team with a QB that was average or below average was the ravens and Dilfer and you replied and I'll quote you "I don’t think the Saints and Colts did"
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I was responding to the Saints and Colts about their defense not being Top 10.

↑
The only team I think of when asked what team won a Super Bowl with a average or below average QB is the ravens with Dilfer but they also had the record setting #1 defense too. In fact every Super Bowl winning team for the last 30 years has had a top 10 defense.
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Click to expand...
I don’t think the Saints and Colts did. There might be others . But the point is most had Franchise QB which is the basis of this thread.

blueblood70 · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
List of SB winning Qb in Cap era

Brady
Mahomes
Foles
Manning’s
Wilson
Flacco
Rogers
Brees
Rothleisburger
Johnson
Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Favre
Aikman
Young

Out of 16 winning QB in Cap era. You have basically Foles, Dilfer and Johnson who weren’t Franchise QB’s.

3 Super Bowls out of 26. That’s about 12%. And 2 of 3 had generational defenses . The other a top 5 defense and the QB although not a Franchise QB played at a MVP level.

There simply isn’t a good percentage of winning Super Bowls without a Franchise QB despite whatever cap implications.

how many of them delivered a sb AFDTER they got 30million? the qbs are now taking more and more of the cap% and since that has been happening, um m im not seeing that formula work either..

there has to be common ground dak does NOT have the DC over barrel or all the leverage?

we replaced romo to him quickly can happen again or take soe years to do so but other teams are cuttings and trading their starters..tough situation whichever direction you go but lets stop acting as if this franchise will crumble without dak

crumble from what a posing record the last 2 seasons? we have not been close with dak why a 35-40million cap hit dak any better>? 9-7 start out what 3-5 in 2018 before we have to go get him help with 1st round now 20mil wr, then 8-8. then 2020 1-3 start

even if its not all dak how does far more expensive dak make things better?

CATCH17 · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
It’s rare. And I’m not talking about Elite QB’s. Just Franchise QB’s.

The only exception is those Generational defenses but even they had closer to a Franchise QB.

Despite however you feel about our QB and or his value , he has us over a barrel. Mostly because we hadn’t caved in earlier seasons. 35 million a year for 4 years he was asking for last year looks pretty good now. We knew it was just going to cost us more by holding out.

Anyway, If the 3 year deal he’s demanding is too much for 41 million, etc which not many would argue , our chances of drafting and developing another franchise QB in the next couple years not very likely.

It’s basically a matter of lesser of two evils. Worse case scenarios.

I certainly see our top 10 offense with an over paid QB more likely to carry a rebuilding defense to a division title and playoffs than without a Franchise QB. And if the offense really gels and we hit in a couple draft picks on defense while a couple previous picks blossom we could have closer to an average defense .

If not then it basically becomes a total rebuild. Who has much hope this dysfunctional organization will get that right. And how many years are we away from being competitive again. I just don’t see how knowing what we know with this leadership we can be hopeful that’s a better alternative.

Who are the non elite franchise QBs winning championships again?

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Who are the non elite franchise QBs winning championships again?

I listed them in an earlier post.

Diehardblues · Mar 6, 2021

blueblood70 said:
how many of them delivered a sb AFDTER they got 30million? the qbs are now taking more and more of the cap% and since that has been happening, um m im not seeing that formula work either..

there has to be common ground dak does NOT have the DC over barrel or all the leverage?

we replaced romo to him quickly can happen again or take soe years to do so but other teams are cuttings and trading their starters..tough situation whichever direction you go but lets stop acting as if this franchise will crumble without dak

crumble from what a posing record the last 2 seasons? we have not been close with dak why a 35-40million cap hit dak any better>? 9-7 start out what 3-5 in 2018 before we have to go get him help with 1st round now 20mil wr, then 8-8. then 2020 1-3 start

even if its not all dak how does far more expensive dak make things better?

It’s about lesser of two evils for the next couple years.

MountaineerCowboy · Mar 6, 2021

I bet more teams have won Super Bowls without franchise QBs then have won without a good defense.

CATCH17 · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
List of SB winning Qb in Cap era

Brady
Mahomes
Foles
Manning’s
Wilson
Flacco
Rogers
Brees
Rothleisburger
Johnson
Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Favre
Aikman
Young

Out of 16 winning QB in Cap era. You have basically Foles, Dilfer and Johnson who weren’t Franchise QB’s.

3 Super Bowls out of 26. That’s about 12%. And 2 of 3 had generational defenses . The other a top 5 defense and the QB although not a Franchise QB played at a MVP level.

There simply isn’t a good percentage of winning Super Bowls without a Franchise QB despite whatever cap implications.

Can’t say I see many franchise QBs that aren’t elite on this list.

gjkoeppen · Mar 6, 2021

Diehardblues said:
I was responding to the Saints and Colts about their defense not being Top 10. Keep up

I will try to find the article where Troy Vincent, who is a vice president of the NFL was quoted as saying that every Super Bowl winning team for the last 30 years had a top 10 defense. BTW, you replied to that same comment where I started out by talking about Dilfer and then you didn't say you were referring to the defense part of it. Next time when replying to a comment that has multiple things in it you might want to say what thing you're disputing.
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Who is winning championships without a Franchise QB?

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