BYU DT Tonga

FuzzyLumpkins said:

I think you don't know what day 3 means.

40 times don't matter and if you cannot see the burst and power you are blind. Strength and quickness are athletic traits.

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I saw zero burst and nothing screamed “power” at me. Future’s right. He’s worse than Joey Ivie was.

Beaker42 said:

I saw zero burst and nothing screamed “power” at me. Future’s right. He’s worse than Joey Ivie was.

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This is starting to remind me of the Joey Bosa debate where I was told the exact same thing. Bosa supposedly had no burst or power either.

As for what the video show:

Fist two snaps he is slow off the line.

Third snap he is on the ball and the center was turned immediately and the blown by Guard had to lunge badly. 1 min mark. Burst is obvious.

Fourth snap he is on the ball again, keeps his pads low, and take the RG for a ride straight back with no recovery. Power is obvious.

Fifth snap he is okay off the line, and gets a bit of push but his lack of hand technique prevents him from disengaging.

Sixth snap he shoots the a gap and makes the OL lunge and miss. Burst is obvious. 2:20 mark.

Seventh snap, he is two gapping and again the poor handwork is evident as he tries to adjust back to the strongside gap.

and so forth.

Future said:

Ummm "I feel way stronger in the weight room, but most of all I feel so much faster," Tonga added. "I played at around 350 last year, and at the time I didn't realize how much better it would be if I lost weight. I can see that difference now and it's night and day. I just can't wait to see what it is in pads when we finally get to play for real."

Not in such small spaces, with such small variance in weight.

Ok so then your whole thing is take a raw prospect based on his upside, not accounting for age. That's something

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You really need to reread the argument and try to keep with the big picture. I was talking about putting on some weight from 320 and keeping his burst. But bravo on saying 30 lbs could be too much.

I am fine with accounting for age. So how am I supposed to consider his age in terms of upside when I have been saying his upside is in improving his technique? Is 24 too old to improve hand and footwork? I means he was doing it age 22 and 23 but I suppose 24 is the end of the road. . . .

FuzzyLumpkins said:

You really need to reread the argument and try to keep with the big picture. I was talking about putting on some weight from 320 and keeping his burst. But bravo on saying 30 lbs could be too much.

I am fine with accounting for age. So how am I supposed to consider his age in terms of upside when I have been saying his upside is in improving his technique? Is 24 too old to improve hand and footwork? I means he was doing it age 22 and 23 but I suppose 24 is the end of the road. . . .

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If he could be as explosive at 330 as 320, that would've been his target weight.

Yes, 24 is too old to depend on any development.

But again, the biggest point is that you are seeing athleticism that simply isn't there, regardless of his age, weight, or whatever.

Future said:

If he could be as explosive at 330 as 320, that would've been his target weight.

Yes, 24 is too old to depend on any development.

But again, the biggest point is that you are seeing athleticism that simply isn't there, regardless of his age, weight, or whatever.

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You do not get to speak as to why his target weight was anything. All you have posited is that he felt faster are 320 than he did at 350. You have zero basis for that assertion.

You seem to not understand the difference between physical development and technique development. There is no reason a 24 year old could not learn how to refine his swim, club, rip, placement, etc technique. He has improved in those areas for the past 3 years but magically he stops at 24? That is just stupid.

And as i said before, this reminds me of the Bosa debates several years ago. Then too I was told that I am imagining athleticism that is not there. I was proven right then. I am fine with allowing reality to dictate again.

I have already been told that he is so slow that it is easy for the C to setup then I showed evidence to the contrary when he gets off on the snap.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

You do not get to speak as to why his target weight was anything. All you have posited is that he felt faster are 320 than he did at 350. You have zero basis for that assertion.

You seem to not understand the difference between physical development and technique development. There is no reason a 24 year old could not learn how to refine his swim, club, rip, placement, etc technique. He has improved in those areas for the past 3 years but magically he stops at 24? That is just stupid.

And as i said before, this reminds me of the Bosa debates several years ago. Then too I was told that I am imagining athleticism that is not there. I was proven right then. I am fine with allowing reality to dictate again.

I have already been told that he is so slow that it is easy for the C to setup then I showed evidence to the contrary when he gets off on the snap.

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He literally said he felt faster lol. I'm not asserting anything. Do you even read?

Didn't say he can't, said you can't depend on it.

Don't care, doesn't matter.

I don't have much of a problem with his get off. It's fine. He's fine as a 5th round pick. He's just not athletic enough to be this big upside guy that you're saying. Idk why you're so butthurt about ppl seeing his athleticism different than you.

Future said:

He literally said he felt faster lol. I'm not asserting anything. Do you even read?

Didn't say he can't, said you can't depend on it.

Don't care, doesn't matter.

I don't have much of a problem with his get off. It's fine. He's fine as a 5th round pick. He's just not athletic enough to be this big upside guy that you're saying. Idk why you're so butthurt about ppl seeing his athleticism different than you.

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another negative post by future who would have thought. when is the last time you agreed with anyone? lol

Is this HS?

Future said:

He literally said he felt faster lol. I'm not asserting anything. Do you even read?

Didn't say he can't, said you can't depend on it.

Don't care, doesn't matter.

I don't have much of a problem with his get off. It's fine. He's fine as a 5th round pick. He's just not athletic enough to be this big upside guy that you're saying. Idk why you're so butthurt about ppl seeing his athleticism different than you.

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I can read just fine. He said he felt faster than he was at 350 which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You seem incapable of acknowledging the distinction.

Nothing in life is guaranteed even in a 20 year old prospect. At the same we have a prospect who takes to teaching historically and with clear technical issues that are coachable. I think any team that drafts Tonga will enjoy a prospect who is willing to take new taught techniques to the field just like he has done for the previous several years.

And whether you care or not is besides the point. You are not going to be compelled into changing your stance for whatever reason. You are cliche in that regard. At the same time it speaks to relative credibility with our audience.

That is what you do not seem to get. I do not write my responses just for you. I fully understand this is a public forum.

And you need to work on your empathy because you have failed in perceiving my emotions. I even said that I was fine with the state of the disagreement which should be a huge clue.

I have shown that when Tonga comes off the ball, he blows by interior OL with his quickness. You can put whatever made up rankings and qualitative generalizations onto that you like. I actually think it's funny that you tag that as "very average." You have no idea of context and frankly do not appear to understand what you are watching.

Nemesis4u said:

another negative post by future who would have thought. when is the last time you agreed with anyone? lol

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Would you like a tissue?

FuzzyLumpkins said:

I can read just fine. He said he felt faster than he was at 350 which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You seem incapable of acknowledging the distinction.

Nothing in life is guaranteed even in a 20 year old prospect. At the same we have a prospect who takes to teaching historically and with clear technical issues that are coachable. I think any team that drafts Tonga will enjoy a prospect who is willing to take new taught techniques to the field just like he has done for the previous several years.

And whether you care or not is besides the point. You are not going to be compelled into changing your stance for whatever reason. You are cliche in that regard. At the same time it speaks to relative credibility with our audience.

That is what you do not seem to get. I do not write my responses just for you. I fully understand this is a public forum.

And you need to work on your empathy because you have failed in perceiving my emotions. I even said that I was fine with the state of the disagreement which should be a huge clue.

I have shown that when Tonga comes off the ball, he blows by interior OL with his quickness. You can put whatever made up rankings and qualitative generalizations onto that you like. I actually think it's funny that you tag that as "very average." You have no idea of context and frankly do not appear to understand what you are watching.

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This is the worst post in the history of the internet.

Per the bolded...pot, kettle

Folks need to be reminded that fuzzy literally makes it up as he goes.

You’ll remember he infamously swore Jaylon was playing with out of his brace in 2017, so he likes to think he sees things others don’t.

Future said:

Think you're overrating him.

I don't mind him in the 5th, 6th, whatever. But he's a guy you draft and just hope he turns into a rotational player. No real athletic upside.

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I disagree, he moves really well for man of his size.

The only One Technique I like better than Tonga is Alim McNeill from North Carolina State.

If we miss out on McNeill in rounds 2 or 3, I would certainly take Tonga at the top of the 4th.

Having said that, I don't believe the Cowboys draft either one.

CalPolyTechnique said:

Folks need to be reminded that fuzzy literally makes it up as he goes.

You’ll remember he infamously swore Jaylon was playing with out of his brace in 2017, so he likes to think he sees things others don’t.

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What's funny is Smith made a full recovery despite all of your takes for over a year and you try to spin the argument this way.

Smith recovered fully, you were wrong, no one cares about this fictional tree you're handwaving at, and you need to let it go.

It's been years at this point, stalker.

Future said:

This is the worst post in the history of the internet.

Per the bolded...pot, kettle

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I have been compelled by many arguments on this board. Plenty of people around here can attest to that.

You don't really provide evidence or logic though. Just like you've abandoned arguing merit completely.

This thread Im smarter than you/never wrong overload lol. Miserable dudes

stilltheguru said:

This thread Im smarter than you/never wrong overload lol. Miserable dudes

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What do you think of Tonga?

FuzzyLumpkins said:

What do you think of Tonga?

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You just dodged my question yesterday and want to act like you want a discussion. Lmao the dishonesty from you dudes. Miserable

stilltheguru said:

You just dodged my question yesterday and want to act like you want a discussion. Lmao the dishonesty from you dudes. Miserable

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What question? I get dozens of quotes and sometimes do not get to them all. Get over yourself.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

I love this guy on day 3. I like him better than quite a few guys labeled day 2. Size, arm length, natural bend and flexibility, body control, strength, burst, year to year improvement, awareness, and finish are all there.

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My favourite Day 3 player. I think he'll be there at round 7. He's a sleeper at DT, and, given our woes at 1T, I think he's got all the skills to see quite a bit of playing time. Still need a guy like McNeil, Tufele, Toiaga, Shelvin, or Slayton ahead of him in the draft though. Still, using him to double up at 1T would be great!