Sick of Hearing About NT

It can’t just be Antwaun Woods. Even in a bad class you can find a player with more talent and better suited for the position. Doesn’t have to be 330lb guy. But the effort to find a player has to be better.

speedkilz88 said:

Ratliff was Parcell's & Wade Phillips' NT.

Now if he had hung around for Marinelli then maybe he could have switched to 3T and had even more production.

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I know this. What I'm saying is Ratliff was a DE in our 3-4 he probably would've been even more dominant. He was a great NT for us but this defense had issues that stemmed from him not being a bigger NT.

And its worth noting that Ratliff was here when Maranelli was here but that was the same year we cut him because of the whole charade that went down with him and Jerry.

rocyaice said:

I know this. What I'm saying is Ratliff was a DE in our 3-4 he probably would've been even more dominant. He was a great NT for us but this defense had issues that stemmed from him not being a bigger NT.

And its worth noting that Ratliff was here when Maranelli was here but that was the same year we cut him because of the whole charade that went down with him and Jerry.

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Rats was only good for a couple of years. He wore out quickly due to build.

It's not about size, it's about build.

Shocking how many fans don't comprehend the NT position and what it does for a D.

Ratliff was one of the first to stand up to Jerry and was soon gone after that.

Knotamus said:

I agree. I believe most people (including myself) want the run defense shored up, so they point the finger at DT. It’s not as simple as “plug a fat guy” in the middle, as some suggest. A understanding of how “4-3 Under” scheme popularized by Monte Kiffin, would clear things up. The linebackers played a big part in our poor run defense.

That said, the FO has already made a few major moves, albeit under the radar or less inspiring to some. Ridding ourselves of Mike Nolan’s garbage scheme, and returning to a familiar scheme that most these players were drafted for.. is a major improvement in and of itself. Also, letting washed up player like Poe and Crawford go and replacing them with Urban and presumed draft pick is a upgrade regardless of name recognition. The emergence of Gallimore and getting Tristen Hill back from injury also helps. And Dallas will surely add another before or after the draft when veterans are forced to lower their salary demands.

My biggest worry is at LB. Jaylon is a big hitter, but he has proven he can’t shed blocks. He certainly be moved to Sam LB. I’d say they should cut him, but now that his salary is guaranteed.. I don’t see that happening. LVE proved his best fit is Will LB, so that leaves a big vacancy at the most important LB position.. the Mike LB. Again, the Mike has to be able to shed blocks, be a proven tackler at the LOS, and show coverage ability.

I know that’s the long route to say.. If the rumors of KJ Wright are just rumors.. then LB may be just as big of need as CB and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see a LB drafted within the first two rounds. Another scenario that should be considered.. Maybe, Dallas can trade a early Mid Rd pick for a proven LB off another team.

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Get Surtain at 10 and draft Jamin Davis with our second pick even if we have to trade up a little.

Chuck 54 said:

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

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It isnt easy to come up with 2 like you describe ! It could be done, but with jones boys, dont expect to see that in this decade.

Intelligent thread

As this defense routinely gives up 250 yards rushing

kskboys said:

Rats was only good for a couple of years. He wore out quickly due to build.

It's not about size, it's about build.

Shocking how many fans don't comprehend the NT position and what it does for a D.

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Its not about "Size" its about "build"? Ughhh what? I Swear some of y'all will argue 2+2=4 is wrong lol.

JBS said:

Intelligent thread

As this defense routinely gives up 250 yards rushing

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By CJ Anderson of all people and they don't think DT is a issue......just damn.

rocyaice said:

Its not about "Size" its about "build"? Ughhh what? I Swear some of y'all will argue 2+2=4 is wrong lol.

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Why do you feel the need to make fun of something you don't understand? Your answer is childish.

Taller guys have leverage problems. This isn't a secret. How in the world do you not know it? Do you read?

kskboys said:

Why do you feel the need to make fun of something you don't understand? Your answer is childish.

Taller guys have leverage problems. This isn't a secret. How in the world do you not know it? Do you read?

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You just disagreed with my post saying its not about "size" its about "build" and then continue to bring up a players size as why he has problems. You made a childish post and got a childish response. You are just arguing to argue. You say size isn't an issue yet you say a guys height causes problems.......you are contradicting whatever point you are trying to make.

Yes, compare the modern NFL to the NFL of 30 years ago. Real smart stuff. Cowboyszone with it's high quality threads as always.

Technically you can win a super bowl without a franchise QB. Does that mean fans shouldnt desire one?

Here’s an interesting exercise.... Pick a position over the last 20 years, and find the best players there and what they achieved. I’ll start:

1. Quarterback. Who were the statistically most prolific QBs over the last 20 years?

Aaron Rodgers - 1 ring, 5(?) NFCCGs

Drew Brees - 1 ring, 1 SB, 3 NFCCGs

Peyton Manning - 2 Rings, 4 SB, Untold AFCCGs

Patrick Mahomes - Already 1 ring, 2 SB, 3 AFCCG

Brett Favre - Already won a ring by 2000, including 2 SB trips and 3-4 NFCCGs. But in this timeframe he made 2 more NFCCGs

Tom Brady - I don’t even know how many rings or SBs or Championship Games at this point, but you get the point



2. Wide Receiver. Now here’s a twist one, let’s see what the most prolific WRs have done

Randy Moss - 2 SB, 3 Championship games since 2000, no rings

Terrell Owens - 1 SB, 1 Championship game, no rings

Andre Johnson - No Championship games, no SBs, no rings

Calvin Johnson - No championship games, no SBs, no rings

Larry Fitzgerald - 2 championship games, 1 SB, no rings

Julio Jones - 2 championship games, 1 SB, no rings

Davante Adams - 3 NFCCGs, no SBs, no rings



3. Now let’s try the best Defensive Tackles since 2000:

Ndamukong Suh - 1 ring, 2 SB, 2 NFCCGs

Warren Sapp - 1 ring, 1 SB, 2 NFCCG

Fletcher Cox - 1 ring, 1 SB, 1 NFCCG

Ted Washington - 1 ring, 1 SB, 3 championship games

Vince Wolfork - 2 rings, 3 SBs, 9(?) championship games

Haloti Ngata - 1 ring, 1 SB, 3 AFCCG

Richard Seymour - 3 rings, 4 SBs, 5 AFCCGs

Aaron Donald - 1 SB, 1 NFCCG, no rings (yet)


Yes, There are exceptions to every rule, and you can come up with excuses for every guy on this list. But they don’t need any.

You can do this with every position just to see how valuable they are to a championship team at their peak. Try safety next, that one is eye popping

Everyone values defensive tackles highly, even if you have proof of winning without them 40 years ago

Captain-Crash said:

Ratliff was one of the first to stand up to Jerry and was soon gone after that.

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Ratliff was a bit off his rocker though there near the end. He was also not very good anymore to justify his attitude. If I remember correctly, he faked an injury and then magically healed once he got to the Bears which almost landed him in hot water.

BourbonBalz said:

Bringing up our DTs from the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s makes no sense regarding today’s game. There were no (or very few in the 80’s) 300+ lb. offensive or defensive linemen then. I’m not even sure if DTs were called 1Techs or 3 Techs then. The game has changed. Players sizes have greatly changed. I do believe we need a run stuffing 1Tech.

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This.

How a team built a defense in the 1970s doesn't really apply to how you would build a defense now. Randy White was one of the all time greats but didn't he play DT at like 260? That's a LB weight in some places in today's game.

Nothings changed because someone is tired of hearing it. Cowboys need a NT... Cowboys need a NT, for the ppl in the back!

5 yards a pop is what you'll give up right now with Quinn and all because no matter the scheme the players aren't there on the inside.

I know the guys you are desiring. They will both be free agents after this season and are both 6'10, 500 lbs with a 99 rating for spd, acc, ag, tckl, awr, stamina, inj, and pwr

Chuck 54 said:

I’m sick of hearing about nose tackles. We do not need to sign or draft a NT. We don’t have to have 1 fat run stuffer and 1 penetrating playmaker.

Look at the history of great Dallas defenses....you do not need a run stuffing nose tackle like NE’s Wilfork in a 4-3. If you have two really good DTs, you’re set.

Lilly and Pugh
Pugh and White
White and Dutton
Maryland and Casilas
Maryland and Lett

You just can not run garbage DTs out there who wouldn’t start on most teams.

Crawford and Hayden?
Collins and Crawford?
Collins and Woods?
Poe and Crawford?

Give me 2 good, athletic DTs who can penetrate, chase, make plays behind the line and chase plays down the line, and I’ll take that any day over all the 1 and 3 tech talk. We brought in FA DTs who will add to the rotation and improve our run defense, but our current hopes are on Hill and Gallimore, who are both athletic and big. Draft another good DT. I don’t care if he’s a star or a Jimmy Jones, but add one more young guy who can actually play.

(History: Randy White was drafted in 1975, #2 overall, at 6’4” and 257 lbs. He was a backup at MLB for two seasons, playing only on special teams while Larry Cole played out of position at DT. He didn’t even play DT until his 3rd season whenCole was finally able to return to DE)

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Sounds like someone hasn't studied up on the scheme we're going to be running

Clarke82 said:

I could not disagree more.

The NFL has changed and is playing more defensive backs on defense and getting more spread out.

That means the 1T DT is becoming more of a need because smaller LB's and the DB's don't shed blocks they run around them creating holes.

Therefore, keeping the O-Line busy is very important because, it allows your LB's and DB's to run and hit.

The '70's thru 90's Cowboys also depended on Fullbacks as a key part of the offense.

Things change so, the importance of positions change.

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Agreed need someone that can take up space and multiple players so the 3tech and edge can disrupt and speed up the play.

Clarke82 said:

I could not disagree more.

The NFL has changed and is playing more defensive backs on defense and getting more spread out.

That means the 1T DT is becoming more of a need because smaller LB's and the DB's don't shed blocks they run around them creating holes.

Therefore, keeping the O-Line busy is very important because, it allows your LB's and DB's to run and hit.

The '70's thru 90's Cowboys also depended on Fullbacks as a key part of the offense.

Things change so, the importance of positions change.

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Quality athletic DTs keep OLs plenty busy. Think the Rams would look for a 1 Tech if they had two Aaron Donald’s? I get your point and agree that you need a hog if your 3 tech is getting blown off the ball, but the good DTs, whether 280 or 340, are not being blown back. Donald is 6’1” and 280. Every DT on our current roster is between 304 and 320 except Urban, who is 295. I still think it’s about talent, not size.