Kyle Pitts vs Patrick Surtain: Who SHOULD be the Pick | Shan & RJ

Creeper

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I love Pitts. And if Dallas took him over Surtain, I would not be upset in the least. Plus, there are CBs available in round 2 that may be good enough to help the defense. You have guys like Stoke, Tyson Campbell, Molden, etc. So if Pitts falls to 10, I think they have to take him.

On the other hand, the Cowboys offense when healthy last year was already scoring over 30 points a game. I don't think they need Pitts to have the best offense in the league. So if they take Surtain, I'd be fine with that too.
 

Dalmations202

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So much money tied up in the offense. 1st round picks and top $$$ on the Oline. 1st round picks and top $$$ at Wr. 1st round pick and top $$$ at Rb. Top 2 highest paid QB. So let's go get a first round TE. It is a typical Jerry pick. It takes catches from Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, or the 2 TE you already are paying.
This is not to say I don't like Pitts, but if you value the team first instead of the individual player, then you pick the CB that will come in and start next to Diggs for a while.
You can't rebuild the D if you keep using your best draft capital on the O. It is already a multi year rebuild, why make it a decade long rebuild and then realize you have no offense because they all got to old to play at a high level.
Build the D this draft.
 

Stash

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Surtain is closer to Pitts then Ellis was to Moss. S2 would make more of an impact on the Cowboys then Pitts because we already have one of the best receiving cores in the league but have one of the worst secondaries.

Speaking of Randy Moss. Can you imagine him and Michael Irvin playing together in the late 90s. Frightening how good our offense would have been.

I agree. Just how ‘loaded’ can an offense be?

How much money and resources can be devoted to one side of the ball?

How many point does that offense need to score to carry the defense? (Certainly not enough last year)

If there was ever a case for ‘there’s only one football’, this would be it.
 

Stash

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So much money tied up in the offense. 1st round picks and top $$$ on the Oline. 1st round picks and top $$$ at Wr. 1st round pick and top $$$ at Rb. Top 2 highest paid QB. So let's go get a first round TE. It is a typical Jerry pick. It takes catches from Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, or the 2 TE you already are paying.
This is not to say I don't like Pitts, but if you value the team first instead of the individual player, then you pick the CB that will come in and start next to Diggs for a while.
You can't rebuild the D if you keep using your best draft capital on the O. It is already a multi year rebuild, why make it a decade long rebuild and then realize you have no offense because they all got to old to play at a high level.
Build the D this draft.


:hammer:
 

quickccc

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Since Surtain worked out a 4.42 to eliminate questions about his raw speed, the next question is does he play to it ? Does that speed translate to the field ?

whether 4.4 or 4.6,.. I’d to see his game tape vs the best WRs in NCAA…. Chase, Justin Jefferson, etc.

yeh, he's played against top regarded Bama WRs in practice, (Jued,Suggs, Waddle, Smith) but it's a whole different animal when in games, with high stakes, national title runs are on the line
you can work on some things and experiment in practices, but in primetime games vs better competiiton, you have to bring A-game to an entire game.

And can Patrick play all the defenses and schemes ? .. press jam or zone, off press ? (Byron was purely a press CB)
And here’s my biggest concern with Surtain – turnovers

Trevon Diggs in his final season at Bama had 3 INTs, (that was even shortened by broken foot)
Surtain as i'm reading has started since being a freshman and only has 4 career INTs ?

We let go of Byron Jones because he had zero INT skills, are we due for another CB that will only be content with just knocking the ball away, instead of INT it away ?
 

quickccc

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I’m not understanding the descriptive terms being applied to the two players here? Where’s the basis for them?

:huh:

Moss was viewed as a " Generation" WR (ditto with Megatro-Calvin Johnnson) .. while Ellis was viewed as a solid DE prospect.
Solid comes out every year,..Generation types are seen as rare.
 

Stash

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Moss was viewed as a " Generation" WR (ditto with Megatro-Calvin Johnnson) .. while Ellis was viewed as a solid DE prospect.
Solid comes out every year,..Generation types are seen as rare.

That may in fact refer to them, but that doesn’t mean the same applies to Pitts. Nor have I seen those terms being used to describe him. That’s why I was wondering if you had?
 

kskboys

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I"ve got Pitts as a top 5 talent...Surtain as a top 20ish talent.

The gap is too wide to take need over talent. Pitts all day.
The gap between our O and D is too wide to even consider a super bowl, and will remain so as long as we keep taking O guys that we just can't pass up.
 

quickccc

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I love Surtain and am hoping he’s our guy. But if Pitts is there, you just cannot pass on him.

You move up and grab the next CB if needed.

if Pitts is as "generational " and up to the hype hes' made out to be, ..then you have to revamp and rescheme your offense to best fit his skill set.
basically he is supposed to create such mismatches vs LBs and safeties that you're constantly have to design routes to better impose what he does on the field.
It becomes totally up to the offensive coaches we have.

We cannot be seeing him and using him as a Zack Ertz move- the- chain TE.
Some analysts are even suggesting that we need to be flexing him between TE and WR to get his length,
maneuverability receiving skills and explosiveness out on the flank as often as possible and quickly as possible before defenses even have a chance to decide how
they need to match up against him.

of course i've already observed a few that have even suggested that it needs to be considered a full time move of Pitts to WR on a full time basis.
 

kskboys

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if Pitts is as "generational " and up to the hype hes' made out to be, ..then you have to revamp and rescheme your offense to best fit his skill set.
basically he is supposed to create such mismatches vs LBs and safeties that you're constantly have to design routes to better impose what he does on the field.
It becomes totally up to the offensive coaches we have.

We cannot be seeing him and using him as a Zack Ertz move- the- chain TE.
Some analysts are even suggesting that we need to be flexing him between TE and WR to get his length,
maneuverability receiving skills and explosiveness out on the flank as often as possible and quickly as possible before defenses even have a chance to decide how
they need to match up against him.

of course i've already observed a few that have even suggested that it needs to be considered a full time move of Pitts to WR on a full time basis.
Is Pitts worth another 2-3 years of a crapp D? That's the real question.
 

baltcowboy

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Since Surtain worked out a 4.42 to eliminate questions about his raw speed, the next question is does he play to it ? Does that speed translate to the field ?

whether 4.4 or 4.6,.. I’d to see his game tape vs the best WRs in NCAA…. Chase, Justin Jefferson, etc.
yeh, he's played against top regarded Bama WRs in practice, (Jued,Suggs, Waddle, Smith) but it's a whole different animal when in games, with high stakes, national title runs are on the line
you can work on some things and experiment in practices, but in primetime games vs better competiiton, you have to bring A-game to an entire game.

And can Patrick play all the defenses and schemes ? .. press jam or zone, off press ? (Byron was purely a press CB)
And here’s my biggest concern with Surtain – turnovers

Trevon Diggs in his final season at Bama had 3 INTs, (that was even shortened by broken foot)
Surtain as i'm reading has started since being a freshman and only has 4 career INTs ?

We let go of Byron Jones because he had zero INT skills, are we due for another CB that will only be content with just knocking the ball away, instead of INT it away ?
Huh???? Surtain has started since his freshman season at Alabama. He has went against the top receivers in college football since his freshman year. I remember watching him in the National semi final holding his own against CeeDee and Kyler Murray. Go YouTube it brother. No corner in the last decade have as much tape against quality competition that Surtain has.
 

quickccc

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That may in fact refer to them, but that doesn’t mean the same applies to Pitts. Nor have I seen those terms being used to describe him. That’s why I was wondering if you had?

if you're up to date on what's all being said about Pitts pre-draft talk. it does,. he is supposed to be a ' generation' TE to the likes that we have not seen, come across and encountered since … (when?)

as I stated previously with draft talk, we've seen very fast TEs such as Vernon Davis (4.37) and Evan Ingram (4.4) coming into the NFL draft.
But their level of receiving skills and length is not said to be on the level of Pitts coming into the NFL draft.

If you listen to Bucky Brooks per NFL Network podcasts ( per NFL.com?) and sessions alone you can find him drooling over Pitts in that sense, and Bucky hasn't only one, if we listen to
the persistent NFL sirus, etc.
 

Stash

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if you're up to date on what's all being said about Pitts pre-draft talk. it does,. he is supposed to be a ' generation' TE to the likes that we have not seen, come across and encountered since … (when?)

Says who? Where? You keep saying it.

as I stated previously with draft talk, we've seen very fast TEs such as Vernon Davis (4.37) and Evan Ingram (4.4) coming into the NFL draft.
But their level of receiving skills and length is not said to be on the level of Pitts coming into the NFL draft.

If you listen to Bucky Brooks per NFL Network podcasts ( per NFL.com?) and sessions alone you can find him drooling over Pitts in that sense, and Bucky hasn't only one, if we listen to
the persistent NFL sirus, etc.

So nothing in print then?

I’ve also seen and heard plenty of talk about Pitts not being a true TE, and struggling as a blocker and lining up in a true TE role.

I’ve also read all of the horror stories about the “can’t miss” 1st round TE’s that have busted. Nobody seems to want to talk about those things though.
 

cnuball21

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The gap between our O and D is too wide to even consider a super bowl, and will remain so as long as we keep taking O guys that we just can't pass up.

I get you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to reach that much for need in the top 10.

Use FA and the rest of the draft to plug holes.
 

kskboys

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Says who? Where? You keep saying it.



So nothing in print then?

I’ve also seen and heard plenty of talk about Pitts not being a true TE, and struggling as a blocker and lining up in a true TE role.

I’ve also read all of the horror stories about the “can’t miss” 1st round TE’s that have busted. Nobody seems to want to talk about those things though.
He reminds me too much of Jimmy Graham, who everyone wanted to pay and then couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Big fast TE's are not the be all end all.
 

Shake_Tiller

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I look at it this way. I’ve done a ton of mock drafts now, some where Pitts was actually available, and I took him. But I found myself always chasing and trying to make up for it the rest of the way.

Conversely, when I take the corner or trade down, I’m not chasing after the TE position. That’s what it comes down to for me, not having to ‘make up ground’ for an indulgent 1st pick.
I probably take Pitts if he falls, somehow. But I absolutely agree with you that it leaves you chasing positions throughout the draft; especially if you think you still need a viable OT to develop. It is a concern.

For whatever they're worth, the draft simulators seem to leave me with bad choices after I've taken Pitts. Oddly, I don't get the same effect after taking Sewell or Slater. I think it's because taking an OT triggers a bit of a run at the position, pushing down some defensive talent.
 

Verdict

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Is that a serious question?

Pitts appears to be the best player is this draft. He would have been great in college even with less athleticism.

Is Surtain better than Diggs?

I think these CBs are being artificially elevated because there are no real bell ringers at CB this year. None of these CBs are Deion Sanders level talent.

I think in most drafts these CBS would be bottom of the first round in talent level. And I’m leaning toward Surtain not being even the best CB in this class.
 
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