Surtain vs Horn Question

Typhus said:

IMHO I believe Quinn likes Horn more in his zone read scheme that he will be implementing.

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I hate zone and do t see the pint in using a high kick for a zone corner.

3rdEyewarrior said:

which Is why id prefer fairly. both revis and mo Claiborne ran 4.39 at their pro days. They also both ran 4.50 at the combine. every year pro day times are way faster than combine times.

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You realize that you’re making this all up right, smh?

1. Claiborne ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day.

2. Revis didn’t even workout at the Combine, so where are you getting 4.50?

Pretty good from tackler 0:57, 2:09, 2:25, 3:02
He was beaten in true man-to-man battles for 29-plus yards just five times during his career.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

I was speaking of this past season. Nice strawman though.

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Oh, you mean 2020?

When Surtain gave up less touchdowns (2) than Horn (3); had less penalties (0 to Horn’s 5), despite playing twice as many snaps (916) than Horn (466).

Of course you would trot out yards allowed totals, but then completely omit the fact Surtain played in 13 games to Horn’s 7.

“Buh, his high school short-shuttle tho!?!?”

If we draft Horn we will def own the record for most Holdings and PI Calls in the league

Ps2 is the more sure tackler of the two. He doesn't miss tackles. They're both willing and good in support. Ps2 more of the sure bet to actually tackle the ball carrier

Neither is the perfect corner. But that person does not exist, never did. Even Deion wasn't, not a good tackler.

If both are available at 10, flip a coin if you can't decide. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Both will or at least you think can help the Cowboys.

ThoughI prefer Surtain, learning technique takes a while, Surtain already has it. The slightly less speed can be handled the vast majority of the time. I'm not taking Horn because once a game he can match burning speed of a receiver with burning speed of his own. I'll take consistency over pure athleticism.

But that's me, if others differ, no problem there....

CalPolyTechnique said:

You realize that you’re making this all up right, smh?

1. Claiborne ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day.

2. Revis didn’t even workout at the Combine, so where are you getting 4.50?

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Actually you’re making it up. I remember when it happened. Mo ran 4.39 at the pro day.

3rdEyewarrior said:

Actually you’re making it up. I remember when it happened. Mo ran 4.39 at the pro day.

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From the NFL website in 2011:
Claiborne, Brockers, pleased with pro day
Published: Mar 22, 2012 at 03:06 PM
BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - Morris Claiborne had one individual goal for his performance in front of the NFL scouts and coaches at LSU's Pro Day.

The star cornerback and Thorpe Award winner wanted to lower his 40-yard time from what it was at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis last month.

Claiborne accomplished that as he ran a 4.39 on Thursday, shaving more than a tenth of a second off the 4.5 he ran in Indianapolis.

3rdEyewarrior said:

Actually you’re making it up. I remember when it happened. Mo ran 4.39 at the pro day.

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Loooooool, right.



Aaaaaaaaand, what about Revis? Did the ghost of Revis actually run at the Combine?

LACowboysFan1 said:

From the NFL website in 2011:
Claiborne, Brockers, pleased with pro day
Published: Mar 22, 2012 at 03:06 PM
BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - Morris Claiborne had one individual goal for his performance in front of the NFL scouts and coaches at LSU's Pro Day.

The star cornerback and Thorpe Award winner wanted to lower his 40-yard time from what it was at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis last month.

Claiborne accomplished that as he ran a 4.39 on Thursday, shaving more than a tenth of a second off the 4.5 he ran in Indianapolis.

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https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/sy...ction-and-analysis-of-tigers-pro-day.amp.html

“His 40-yard dash times didn't seem to suffer, though. Claiborne clocked 4.39 and 4.44 times on Thursday, which is an improvement from the 4.50 he ran at the NFL Scouting Combine.”

He still needs to account for his claim about Revis’ supposed Combine when he didn’t even run at the Combine, lool.

Moreso than the tape or stats, I love how Surtain just gets being a pro. He's already playing with coach-on-the-field levels of technique and awareness at 21 years old. He upped his game 3 years in a row at Bama. He's had zero off-field issues. He's a safe bet not only because of the tape and stats but because of his maturity.

That kind of professionalism is what separates Dak and Zeke, for example. They're both pretty fratty party bros, but Dak is serious when it comes to his game and keeps working to improve it. He's already broken habits that I never expected to change (spin out left!) and keeps all his extracurricular habits extracurricular. Zeke wants to party, wants attention, and doesn't want to work. After his rookie year, you could just see the coast mode kick in and it's pretty much been downhill since. This year he just reached new levels of apathy.

It's the same thing that separates Zeke and Henry, same that separates DLaw and Jaylon....attitude is fun, but it has to remain attached to some kind of discipline.

What scares me with Horn is that he looks like the epitome of attitude over discipline. He's already got some pretty big holes in his game from it and I don't know how much he even wants to correct them in the pros. This guy lives for the flashy PBU and you think he'll stop biting on slants?

That's a situation where you need to talk to guys around the South Carolina program and see where Horn's head is at. Is he working to improve his route recognition in the film sessions and take more calculated chances? Is he interested in improving his tackling form or does he just want to blow dudes up? One thing I do know, I'm not asking any of these questions about Surtain.

kskboys said:

As prospects:

Surtain = Kahlil Mack
Horn = Clowney

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What? ksk, no.

lol.......

3rdEyewarrior said:

4.42 pro day is 4.52-4.55 combine z

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I looked for both of them and the forty time for Surtain was higher than you indicated. Not calling you out, but this is what I based my comment on. It was something in the 4.5's.

I have been incorrect several times today, and i just got out of bed. So I could be wrong here.

3rdEyewarrior said:

I personally want to limit my cb 1s tackling. It'll prolong his career. Champ Bailey would've lasted way longer if he wasn't such a good tackler.

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Bailey played 15 years. How much longer do you think he could have played? LOL

Give me Surtain over Horn

This Horn - Surtain argument could go on for months. I think both are good CBs which is why the argument continues. I won't be disappointed if either one is the pick. I like Horn a bit more because of his closing speed. I like Surtain a bit more because of his technique and NFL ready skills.

But let me ask the board this question: If the Cowboys traded down with Chicago to 20, and Caleb Farley drops that far, would you take him? It is the kind of risk Jerry would take in the 2nd round, but how about the first, considering Dallas gets an extra 2nd from Chicago? I know this is a tough question to answer since we have no data to evaluate the risk. What if there is a 75% chance he has no further injury in the future? And if Dallas get's an extra 2nd and a 3rd round pick to trade down? I might take Farley, then another CB in the 2nd with my additional pick to hedge my bet. If they both work out then there is plenty of depth and maybe we don't have to play Lewis or Brown.

Farley says the injury is nothing to worry about and the NFL medical staff cleared him to play in 2021. Rumor has it there are teams willing to take him in the second half of the 1st round.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/14/nfl-draft-caleb-farley-back-injury-cleared/

Creeper said:

This Horn - Surtain argument could go on for months. I think both are good CBs which is why the argument continues. I won't be disappointed if either one is the pick. I like Horn a bit more because of his closing speed. I like Surtain a bit more because of his technique and NFL ready skills.

But let me ask the board this question: If the Cowboys traded down with Chicago to 20, and Caleb Farley drops that far, would you take him? It is the kind of risk Jerry would take in the 2nd round, but how about the first, considering Dallas gets an extra 2nd from Chicago? I know this is a tough question to answer since we have no data to evaluate the risk. What if there is a 75% chance he has no further injury in the future? And if Dallas get's an extra 2nd and a 3rd round pick to trade down? I might take Farley, then another CB in the 2nd with my additional pick to hedge my bet. If they both work out then there is plenty of depth and maybe we don't have to play Lewis or Brown.

Farley says the injury is nothing to worry about and the NFL medical staff cleared him to play in 2021. Rumor has it there are teams willing to take him in the second half of the 1st round.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/14/nfl-draft-caleb-farley-back-injury-cleared/

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I could probably deal with Farley's risk in the 20s. He's going to be an awesome player and health is about his only question.

Yep, this argument wont stop for years.
My Choice ? Im taking Surtain,
At # 10 Im just taking the guy we know will be fundamentally sound from day 1, with everything Covid has done to the draft process, or lack there of. Just get the solid pro, and move on to the risky picks later. I don't care how sexy or unsexy the first 2 picks are, just get good solid players who aren't head cases, who don't have any red flags and can start straight away. This draft will be enough of a crap shoot without getting risky right from the start !
My 2 cents.

I’m going PS2. Just look at the murderers row of wideouts he covered in practice every day

Jeudy
Ruggs
Waddle
Smith

Horn's physicality is intriguing but I think Surtain is the better overall player.

Of course, he might be gone, if Denver doesn't go QB it probably comes down to Surtain or Parsons.