Mac Jones' tape better than Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, ex-NFL linebacker says

RonnieT24 · Apr 28, 2021

Doomsday101 said:
saying you have to be a running QB to be successful is not accurate there are many running QB who frankly suck and if they get to the point they can't run their game is toast. I think Burrow given some help will develop into a great QB and he is not fleet of foot and I think Jones can as well. If you can move and slide in the pocket and make the reads and accurately deliver then you can have success.

No one has said anything about running QBs.. He said MOBILE QBs.. as in athletic enough to get our of trouble when the play breaks down and get you a key 3rd down conversion to keep a drive alive when nobody is open. There is really only one running QB in the league right now and that's Lamar Jackson.. Two if you count Cam but Cam's shoulder fell off so he doesn't run because he wants to .. he runs because his should won't let him make all the throws anymore. All the others are just mobile guys.. Murray, Allen, Prescott, Wilson, Watson, Tannehill, Tua, Wentz, Rodgers.. I'm sure there are others but these are all guys who can move around, buy time, and take off for a first down when the situation calls for it. But none of them could be considered a "running QB." Mobile QBs simply put, mask front office blunders on the o-line. Romo masked ours for years.. Randall Cunningham and Donovan McNabb did it for the Eagles.. Russ is doing it for Seattle.. Rodgers did it for years in Green Bay.. If the QB is a statue there is more of a premium on building a good offensive live.. which frankly should ALWAYS be a premium. But GMs cheat when they get an athletic guy back there. Sure it would be great if the line could consistently give a guy 3.5 seconds to go through his reads and deliver the ball.. With a pure pocket passer that's what you have to have.. if you don't you give up sacks.. Brady had a host of pro bowl offensive linemen in front of him in his time in NE and landed behind a pretty good line in Tampa.. which again, was due in large part to his own intelligence in choosing his landing spot.

Doomsday · Apr 28, 2021

DakPresgoat said:
When Tom Brady is winning most of the super bowls. It does tend to skew numbers though. Lol. Just sayin.

True lol, but Peyton, Eli, Brees, Foles, Flacco, Kurt Warner, etc. Not exactly elite athletes with their legs.

HungryLion · Apr 28, 2021

Doomsday said:
True lol, but Manning, Eli, Brees, Foles, Flacco, Kurt Warner, etc. Not exactly elite athletes with their legs.

Fair points

fivetwos · Apr 28, 2021

CATCH17 said:
League has changed too much though since he has been in the league.

NFL teams are embracing college schemes. Lamar Jackson is nothing special as a passer but teams are absolutely terrified he's going to take off running so his receivers get easy matchups.

Kyler Murray would be a 5 rounder to possibly undrafted in any other era of football.

It's just a different league. Mahomes & Andy Reid changed the game along with the rules of football making everything so offensive heavy.

Which is also why I don't think it's this big difficult thing to find a QB any more and the Cowboys are fools for paying Dak like they did.

All solid points. I'm surprised you get as much crap around here as you do.

However I will say that the guys that are there in the end remain the ones that stand in the pocket and rely on their arm first and foremost.

One can say Lamar in an exception, but I think the league has caught up to him and that gap will continue to narrow.

I wouldn't want him at high end QB money at all.

CATCH17 · Apr 28, 2021

Doomsday said:
There are different types of mobility, having good pocket awareness and being able to slide up to buy yourself an extra second or 2 is just as deadly as a scrambler. You see it with Dak, he can move around but he has trouble feeling where the pressure is coming from at times and puts himself in tough situations because of it.

Plus, how many mobile QBs have won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years? Two or maybe 3.

You’re seeing a big transition though.. That’s what I’ve been try to explain to people..

Classic NFL is going away and the QB position is getting easier than ever to find a quality guy.

Heck we found one in the 4th round.

Mahomes & Andy Reid changed the game.. Mitch Trubisky went ahead of Watson and Mahomes because the NFL was still stuck in this old mindset.. It has since changed.

The classic pocket guy isn’t done by any means but good luck finding that guy because Colleges want dual threat QBs and the NFL has to take whatever the college game provides.

CATCH17 · Apr 28, 2021

fivetwos said:
All solid points. I'm surprised you get as much crap around here as you do.

However I will say that the guys that are there in the end remain the ones that stand in the pocket and rely on their arm first and foremost.

One can say Lamar in an exception, but I think the league has caught up to him and that gap will continue to narrow.

I wouldn't want him at high end QB money at all.

Most of the people giving me crap don't understand football at all. It's the ESPN Highlights group of people.

I've been on these forums since before I could drive a vehicle and the posters who tend to agree with me are the same guys who have been around and learned all these lessons along the way as I already have.

Football just repeats itself. Same problems just a different time.

The biggest problem I see with fans from both sides is identifying how these rules have changed how the game is played though.

It's easy to be good on offense. It's never been easier to play the QB position.

It's hard to play defense. They are all put at a disadvantage which makes defensive line a bigger priority than ever before because defensive linemen are still allowed to play physical football.

Even linebackers need to be more finesse than physical but you got guys campaigning for Micah Parsons in the first round when nobody has a clue if he can do anything but come down hill.

RonnieT24 · Apr 28, 2021

DakPresgoat said:
When Tom Brady is winning most of the super bowls. It does tend to skew numbers though. Lol. Just sayin.

Tom Brady had nothing to do with Pete Carroll's brain fart that handed the Pats that Super Bowl.. Nor was he the idiot calling pass plays for the Falcons in a game where they went into the final 5 minutes with the ball and a two score lead and still managed to lose. The opposing coaches were responsible for those wins for the Pats.. not Brady.. If you want to argue that those coaches were intimidated by Brady and thought they needed to take unnecessary chances I won't fight you too much except to say that they might have been more intimidated by the coach on the other sideline.. But maybe it was 50/50. Either way, Brady has three Super wins off last second field goals and two others won by the defense making late stands. These are facts that make it uber-annoying when people act like Brady singlehandedly won these damn games and that's why he's the greatest. I believe he has like three Super Bowl wins with less than 200 passing yards.. I think he also has two with one TD pass and one with none.. He's been very good.. but he's also been ridiculously lucky..

HungryLion · Apr 28, 2021

RonnieT24 said:
Tom Brady had nothing to do with Pete Carroll's brain fart that handed the Pats that Super Bowl.. Nor was he the idiot calling pass plays for the Falcons in a game where they went into the final 5 minutes with the ball and a two score lead and still managed to lose. The opposing coaches were responsible for those wins for the Pats.. not Brady.. If you want to argue that those coaches were intimidated by Brady and thought they needed to take unnecessary chances I won't fight you too much except to say that they might have been more intimidated by the coach on the other sideline.. But maybe it was 50/50. Either way, Brady has three Super wins off last second field goals and two others won by the defense making late stands. These are facts that make it uber-annoying when people act like Brady singlehandedly won these damn games and that's why he's the greatest. I believe he has like three Super Bowl wins with less than 200 passing yards.. I think he also has two with one TD pass and one with none.. He's been very good.. but he's also been ridiculously lucky..

I mean you’re not going to hear any argument from me that football isn’t a team sport.

I have argued continuously that people put too much credit or discredit on the QB when a team wins or loses.

I’m just saying from that posters point about QB’s winning the last 20 Super Bowls. Brady winning so many skews that number. It’s not an argument about how he won them. Just an argument about the number of wins itself.

HungryLion · Apr 28, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Most of the people giving me crap don't understand football at all. It's the ESPN Highlights group of people.

I've been on these forums since before I could drive a vehicle and the posters who tend to agree with me are the same guys who have been around and learned all these lessons along the way as I already have.

Football just repeats itself. Same problems just a different time.

The biggest problem I see with fans from both sides is identifying how these rules have changed how the game is played though.

It's easy to be good on offense. It's never been easier to play the QB position.

It's hard to play defense. They are all put at a disadvantage which makes defensive line a bigger priority than ever before because defensive linemen are still allowed to play physical football.

Even linebackers need to be more finesse than physical but you got guys campaigning for Micah Parsons in the first round when nobody has a clue if he can do anything but come down hill.

When you say false stuff like this. It doesn’t strengthen your arguments against Parsons. Just to be clear.

Doomsday101 · Apr 28, 2021

RonnieT24 said:
No one has said anything about running QBs.. He said MOBILE QBs.. as in athletic enough to get our of trouble when the play breaks down and get you a key 3rd down conversion to keep a drive alive when nobody is open. There is really only one running QB in the league right now and that's Lamar Jackson.. Two if you count Cam but Cam's shoulder fell off so he doesn't run because he wants to .. he runs because his should won't let him make all the throws anymore. All the others are just mobile guys.. Murray, Allen, Prescott, Wilson, Watson, Tannehill, Tua, Wentz, Rodgers.. I'm sure there are others but these are all guys who can move around, buy time, and take off for a first down when the situation calls for it. But none of them could be considered a "running QB." Mobile QBs simply put, mask front office blunders on the o-line. Romo masked ours for years.. Randall Cunningham and Donovan McNabb did it for the Eagles.. Russ is doing it for Seattle.. Rodgers did it for years in Green Bay.. If the QB is a statue there is more of a premium on building a good offensive live.. which frankly should ALWAYS be a premium. But GMs cheat when they get an athletic guy back there. Sure it would be great if the line could consistently give a guy 3.5 seconds to go through his reads and deliver the ball.. With a pure pocket passer that's what you have to have.. if you don't you give up sacks.. Brady had a host of pro bowl offensive linemen in front of him in his time in NE and landed behind a pretty good line in Tampa.. which again, was due in large part to his own intelligence in choosing his landing spot.

Matt Jones moves around in the pocket he knows how to step up and slide to buy time in the pocket. The key for him is the ability to read and get the ball out quickly and accurately. Frankly the greatest asset for any QB is the 6 inches between the ears. Brady is great because he processes information quickly and gets the ball out and does so accurately and on time. I will not predict that Jones will have the same career as Brady I will say Jones success or failure will be based on the same abilities.

texbumthelife · Apr 28, 2021

Jones isn't better than Lawrence at anything. He was throwing to possibly the two best WR's in college, behind one of if not the best OL, with the best running back in college carrying the rock. He has a good arm and is talented, but there are people on this forum who could be successful in the situation he was in. I'm not even sure what to say about the people tearing down Fields at this point. I would, however, put Jones in the conversation with Wilson and I like him better than Fields.

CATCH17 · Apr 28, 2021

DakPresgoat said:
When you say false stuff like this. It doesn’t strengthen your arguments against Parsons. Just to be clear.

Back when you guys were telling me this was a top 5 pick and I disagreed I voiced my concerns about his playstyle there has been people echoing those same concerns as me.

You might have a clip or 2 that you will try to use as evidence but i'll stick with what I see. He's raw and needs a ton of work at everything besides pursuit and coming down hill.

He's incredibly terrible value in the first round because

1. Can he cover?

2. Is he even a MLB in a 4-3 or a 3-4 OLB.

3. He's a moron off the field.

4. He's a freaking linebacker and linebackers aren't worth first round picks most of the time. Not a premium position.

Everything with this guy is projection.

Also, I don't think Dallas will use a first round pick on a guy with his character concerns who set out because of covid. They will hold that against him.

tm1119 · Apr 28, 2021

Great tape...that mostly consists of a QB throwing to open WR’s from a clean pocket.

Don’t get me wrong, he obviously had to face some pressure and made some great throws, but I don’t understand how he’s regarded as the “safe” prospect of this class (behind Lawrence obviously). Very little experience and didn’t have a whole lot of adversity as the Alabama QB.

khiladi · Apr 28, 2021

I've looked at the tape of other QBs and if anybody isn't hitting wide-open WRs, it's this guy. I don't know what people are watching, because if this is the criticism, it seems like they are biased towards other QBs and aren't operating in reality. Do people ever think, he's the guy making it easier for his WRs?

Look at the throw at 1:39. I mean that's ridiculous. Hell, look at the one at 45 seconds before that, where he's moving left. The WR is still trailing him horizontally, while Jones is moving left, and the WR is still behind Jones, yet the ball is on the money. That is wild...

It looks easy, because the guy is throwing dimes. Looking at the tape, this guy hits WRs in stride, even those tightly covered and he does it with a quick release. Some of the ball placement you see is out of this world. He doesn't need to wait to throw a WR open, he's that accurate. Some of the throws you see on tape are ridiculous. He stands in the pocket, knows how to maneuver ever so slightly and doesn't bail. And this guy actually scans the field. His vertical throws are dimes.

Look at 5:29 above, while escaping pressure, the guy places it on the sideline way down field, so the safety can't even make a play.

Per reports on his workout, he was 61 of 65, two of them were deep and they were just testing his arm strength and he hit the netting of the Alabama indoor facility.

Plus, he plays in a pro-style offense.

I'd be excited if he was our QB. This man would kill with all the sideline routes we run, particularly deep.

RS12 · Apr 28, 2021

Kylie Shanahan is his best chance for success IMO. Otherwise I think we are looking at an Andy Dalton type game manager best case.

HungryLion · Apr 28, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Back when you guys were telling me this was a top 5 pick and I disagreed I voiced my concerns about his playstyle there has been people echoing those same concerns as me.

You might have a clip or 2 that you will try to use as evidence but i'll stick with what I see. He's raw and needs a ton of work at everything besides pursuit and coming down hill.

He's incredibly terrible value in the first round because

1. Can he cover?

2. Is he even a MLB in a 4-3 or a 3-4 OLB.

3. He's a moron off the field.

4. He's a freaking linebacker and linebackers aren't worth first round picks most of the time. Not a premium position.

Everything with this guy is projection.

Also, I don't think Dallas will use a first round pick on a guy with his character concerns who set out because of covid. They will hold that against him.

I dont think the cowboys are going to draft him either. To be honest.

but I think you undervalue his ability.

I actually do agree that the best position for him may be OLB in a 3-4. He actually could be an amazing OLB in that system. IMO.

He has the natural pass rushing ability. If I ran a 3-4 defense I would line him up all over the field and have him attack the QB all day long.

JMO

DFWJC · Apr 28, 2021

Spent the year throwing against air. Totally protected, clean pocket, monster RBs, and WRs.
Kind of like Spring OTAs
.... :laugh:

His tape does look great, but it's so hard to measure in the real world where you may have none of that.

Doomsday101 · Apr 28, 2021

DFWJC said:
Spent the year throwing against air. Totally protected, clean pocket, monster RBs, and WRs.
Kind of like Spring OTAs
....

His tape does look great, but it's so hard to measure in the real world where you may have none of that.

Lawrence and Fields both played on teams with a ton on talent at Clemson and OSU respectively who will likely be contending teams again this season even without Lawrence and Fields on their teams Matt Jones was not the only one with protection up front and great running back and wide open WR.

CATCH17 · Apr 28, 2021

DFWJC said:
Spent the year throwing against air. Totally protected, clean pocket, monster RBs, and WRs.
Kind of like Spring OTAs
....

His tape does look great, but it's so hard to measure in the real world where you may have none of that.

Thing is though all of his mechanics are A+.

He played in a pro style offense so he knows how to make the right reads and everything.

It's a legit concern asking how he handles himself surrounded by chaos when he isn't as well protected as he was in college and that is where his weak arm could show up.

He reminds me of a 2014 version of Tony Romo. He'll never be able to dance around and improvise like Romo but I think he can still do some of that just not to a Romo type of level.

I hate his arm strength though.

Bigdog · Apr 28, 2021

darthseinfeld said:
Jones could be Kurt Cousins. He could be Christian Ponder

Or he could be the next Tom Brady and if the Niners pick him and he is, than it will be very long years for me and having to listen to all my Niners friends.

Mac Jones' tape better than Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, ex-NFL linebacker says

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