Quality vs. Quantity-What kind of D is this team trying to become?

Bobhaze

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,501
Reaction score
63,090
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.
 
Corso

Corso

Offseason mode... sleepy time
Messages
34,618
Reaction score
62,850
Bobhaze said:
Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.
Click to expand...
It's comically tragic how much Jerry gives the WHATEVS to true D building and the rest of the clan follow suit.
That guy has taken his glitz and glam to the extreme and doesn't get that if he were to build a true winning team he would garner even more attention and money from it.

I think he's given up on championships and given in to being the talk of the town.

One is more reliable and easily attainable than the other in his mind.

@Diehardblues
What say you?
 
Bobhaze

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,501
Reaction score
63,090
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Corso said:
It's comically tragic how much Jerry gives the WHATEVS to true D building and the rest of the clan follow suit.
That guy has taken his glitz and glam to the extreme and doesn't get that if he were to build a true winning team he would garner even more attention and money from it.

I think he's given up on championships and given in to being the talk of the town.

One is more reliable and easily attainable than the other in his mind.

@Diehardblues
What say you?
Click to expand...
This is sad but deadly true. Watching Jerry and Stephen these days is nauseating. They look like men who aren’t accountable for wins and losses on the field. Because they aren’t.
 
Corso

Corso

Offseason mode... sleepy time
Messages
34,618
Reaction score
62,850
Bobhaze said:
This is sad but deadly true. Watching Jerry and Stephen these days is nauseating. They look like men who aren’t accountable for wins and losses on the field. Because they aren’t.
Click to expand...
It's disgusting to watch their smiles in the face of so much failure like they're winning.

Just a true slap in the face to us fans.

I will not spend a dime on their product.
Whoever bought a LVE jersey, any jersey! got sucked.

Whoever buys those season tickets?
Parcells wants to smack you.

Ah well... at least I have you guys.
 
Bobhaze

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,501
Reaction score
63,090
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I would actually feel better about this draft if I honestly believed this front office knew what kind of team they are trying to be. If you know what kind of team you’re trying to become, it’s easier to know who to draft. The Cowboys at times look like their strategy is to just “draft good players” who are available rather than having a strategic plan to get the players they want.
 
JBS

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,493
Reaction score
22,089
Everybody would rather have quality over quantity. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's easier to find quality when you have more picks. It's also true that more picks doesn't always equal better quality. For a team that has as many holes as we do, taking as many swings as you can is probably the right approach.
 
Corso

Corso

Offseason mode... sleepy time
Messages
34,618
Reaction score
62,850
Bobhaze said:
I would actually feel better about this draft if I honestly believed this front office knew what kind of team they are trying to be. If you know what kind of team you’re trying to become, it’s easier to know who to draft. The Cowboys at times look like their strategy is to just “draft good players” who are available rather than having a strategic plan to get the players they want.
Click to expand...
I know my main man @xwalker could definitely chime in and say the team has drafted D consistently with tall CB's and yada yada yada...
And he's right, but the team D and it's philosophy has been so fluid and discombobulated to the point of there has been two "co-DC's" with Richard and Marinelli that the madness trumps all.

There's no foundation. There's no stability.

There's nothing winning about this process.
 
plasticman

plasticman

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,481
Reaction score
16,088
I think what the Jones's want this defense to be is a young, cheap but effective one. He's counting on the abilities of the coaches more than he's counting on overall talent. Good luck with that.

It may actually work if the defense isn't awful. Counting on a half dozen rookies to revitalize the defense this season isn't going to work. They are the future of the team far more than being the present.

The Cowboys must have at least one candidate for Comeback Player. LVE or Jaylon must return to Pro Bowl form. Gallimore and/or Tristan Hill must experience their career season. Lawrence and Gregory must become the dangerous duo that we projected them to be. Diggs must establish himself as a playmaker.

These are the events that must happen for the Cowboys to compete for real this season. The rookies aren't going to do much at first. A few of them will begin to be productive around the middle of the season.
 
ShortRound

ShortRound

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,096
Reaction score
80,123
Bobhaze said:
It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become.
Click to expand...

I mean this is it. We signed Jaylon and one year later we have to look for his replacement, under new coaches. And not to defend 54, because he was awful last year, but this is his 3rd DC in so many years.
 
cowboygo

cowboygo

Well-Known Member
Messages
852
Reaction score
1,063
Bobhaze said:
Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.
Click to expand...
I do think our 1st 2 picks aren’t of lesser quality compared to what was taken around them. The rest I’m not sure.

I also think the focus on defense is more about managing the cap, than having an actual plan. We alleviated future cap space by selecting players to get rid/not pick up future linebacker contracts. You can’t really accomplish any vision with high paid underperforming players. At least they recognized that. But the vision is sorta coming into place. DLaw, Gregory?, Parsons, and the 2nd round corners are the “future” core studs.

Next year’s draft will tell us more about the vision if they go D-line or safety. If not, its more of the same, managing the cap/replacing contracts as we go.
 
ThatJerryKid

ThatJerryKid

cowboys31
Messages
3,171
Reaction score
7,386
Bobhaze said:
Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.
Click to expand...
Dan Quinn made it obvious what kind of defense he wants. It’s the exact same defense the Seahawks ran when they were at their best and shut down the Broncos in the Suoer Bowl. Your defensive line has long arms so they can engage the Oline and let the linebackers make all of the tackles sideline to sideline. Your cornerbacks have long arms to keep the windows over top small. Parsons is going to thrive in this defense. Donovan Wilson is our Kam Chancellor. This is going to be fun to watch.
 
Bobhaze

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,501
Reaction score
63,090
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
ThatJerryKid said:
Dan Quinn made it obvious what kind of defense he wants. It’s the exact same defense the Seahawks ran when they were at their best and shut down the Broncos in the Suoer Bowl. Your defensive line has long arms so they can engage the Oline and let the linebackers make all of the tackles sideline to sideline. Your cornerbacks have long arms to keep the windows over top small. Parsons is going to thrive in this defense. Donovan Wilson is our Kam Chancellor. This is going to be fun to watch.
Click to expand...
If that’s true, and it may be, then the Cowboys D is shaped by whoever the D coordinator is. Not the front office. Is that good? Maybe?
 
Motorola

Motorola

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,425
Reaction score
9,158
Bobhaze said:
Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.
Click to expand...
Haze - to your point - what identity do you want the 2021 Cowboys to be; and did this off season acquisitions appear to build toward that?
 
Bobhaze

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
16,501
Reaction score
63,090
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Motorola said:
Haze - to your point - what identity do you want the 2021 Cowboys to be; and did this off season acquisitions appear to build toward that?
Click to expand...
The only thing I want this team to be is a team that wins in the playoffs. So I would build a team that best matches what qualities are needed for that. Tough both mentally and physically. Aggressive on both sides of the ball. Disciplined. Role players that fit together to make a whole.

It really doesn’t matter to me what “kind of team” we have. Just make one that wins.
 
Motorola

Motorola

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,425
Reaction score
9,158
Bobhaze said:
The only thing I want this team to be is a team that wins in the playoffs. So I would build a team that best matches what qualities are needed for that. Tough both mentally and physically. Aggressive on both sides of the ball. Disciplined. Role players that fit together to make a whole.

It really doesn’t matter to me what “kind of team” we have. Just make one that wins.
Click to expand...
Just going back to your comment I initially responded to__
'When you know what you're trying to be, it's easier to know what you want'.
Did this draft - along with the UDFA signings following the free agent aquisitions--showed you the Cowboys FO are doing what you think will be successful?
 
atlantacowboy

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,104
Reaction score
24,827
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Bobhaze said:
If that’s true, and it may be, then the Cowboys D is shaped by whoever the D coordinator is. Not the front office. Is that good? Maybe?
Click to expand...

Its a potpourri of opinions. We haven't had one guiding vision since Parcels was here. He was replaced with a room of guys who each contribute a piece. Heck, Jerry even moved garret to the defense at one point to get him out Linehans way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top