Brady or Belicheat?

CATCH17

CATCH17

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John813 said:
Last year I'm sure sealed the deal for some but I think I'll wait it out to see how this year plays out.

The Bucs were a good team with a terrible QB in Winston. Going from Winston to Brady was the final piece.
Years of high draft picks, with some success and a trio of receivers and TEs was the perfect landing spot for Brady.

The Pats had a handful of opt outs and one offseason to "replace" Brady. It wasn't like it was the same team minus Brady. And having to settle for Cam broken Newton stifled the offense.

I would take Bill over Brady cause Bill would instill a football atmosphere in valley Ranch not seen since Bill Parcells and would mean Jerry took a backseat in football operations to a certain degree.
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I guess the answer is.. If I have a great roster... Give me Brady.. If my roster is trash then give me Belichick.

It's like Andy Reid. He is a phenom as a offensive minded coach. Maybe the best to ever do it. I'm taking Mahomes over him all day regardless of circumstances.

IMO, Belichick is just in another league than all other coaches but his roster is trash and it's not getting better this year in a division that's on the come up vs the NFC south that's going to get worse.
 
JW82

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CATCH17 said:
So we don't factor in Brady going to a loaded team that got even more loaded after he signed vs Belichick who had a bad roster with some of his stars opting out?

Didn't a lot of you agree that Brady was done and should retire after watching him in his final season in New England under those same circumstances?

And nobody can say i'm anti Brady because I was the guy on here saying let Dak walk and sign Brady to a 2 year deal and avoid the awful Dak deal.
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No. He built that roster, so he'd not getting a pass if its subpar. People wanted to build him a statue when he had ONE good year when Brady was hurt, when he got to beat up on the worst division in football. Show the great seasons he's had before and after Brady. Brady has had one season without Bill, turned out ok.
 
CATCH17

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JW82 said:
No. He built that roster, so he'd not getting a pass if its subpar. People wanted to build him a statue when he had ONE good year when Brady was hurt, when he got to beat up on the worst division in football. Show the great seasons he's had before and after Brady. Brady has had one season without Bill, turned out ok.
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No crap.. He jumped to a built team.

Brady proved the year before he couldn't win with that either.

Now we're judging Belichick on a ship that was sinking while Brady jumps on a brand new ship that is getting guys like Gronk and Antonio Brown and a discount.

You guys saw Brady on that ship and a lot of you said he should retire.
 
Aerolithe_Lion

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DeathMonkey said:
I sort of agree and would likely take Brady, but it also depends on what coach he'd be under. Some coaches would hamper him. I couldn't see Brady winning anything under someone like Garret.
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my main thought process is you can select any available coach you desire when you have an opening; you can’t exactly replace Tom Brady with just anybody. Would Dak + Belichick really do better than Brady + McCarthy? Brady + Pederson? Brady + even Garrett?

And then consider if you’re not the Cowboys. What if it’s San Diego. Belichick + Herbert, or Belichick + FitzPatrick, or Belichick + Jared Goff. Your alternative is drafting a QB and crossing your fingers. And even if he hits, he won’t be Tom Brady.

I don’t mean to say Belichick isn’t a great Head Coach. But the difference between Belichick and the next best available isn’t all 6 rings. For Brady though it might be
 
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Aerolithe_Lion

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Mr_Strol said:
Would Brady have won a single ring in Dallas?
How many rings would Romo have won if he was drafted by Bill in NE?
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second part is a tricky question. Romo wouldn’t have won the first vs Rams (probably doesn’t make it), as that was only Brady’s second year and Romo wasn’t nearly as good at that point.

2014 vs Seahawks and 2016 vs Falcons were incredible 4th quarter comebacks by Brady, also not sure anyone wins those except for Tom, or may Montana/Elway. 2018 maybe... and then there’s 2003 and 2004. Both seasons Patriots were arguably at their peak, but then both Super Bowls were Tom Brady game winning drives and Adam Vinatieri Clutch field goals away from losing, so maybe not. That’s a tough one to answer, as he never really convincingly won any until he got to TB.

First question I believe he definitely wins 1 in the Parcells era, and Parcells maybe stays longer if he had tom brady. Probably also 2007 if he still left, as you barely lost in the divisional round to the giants who won the Super Bowl... and your SB opponent of course wouldn’t have been Tom Brady. So the result there would have probably been a decade of Wade instead of Garrett, but at least some hardware to go with it
 

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Turk said:
The slobbering over Brady is sickening. Put Brady under any NUMBER of coaches and he has no rings at all.
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It's like the most recent superbowl never happened. Did you miss it, were you unaware of the particpants?

Simply put, Belichick has a losing record without Brady. Them's just the facts.
 
starfan1

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Lots of Brady haters and lots of Belichick haters. Fact is they probably both go down as the GOATS at their perspective crafts.And its well earned.
 
Deep_South

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Brady, all day, every day.

Fun fact: Jerry Kramer, Bart Starr, Paul Hornung, Jim Taylor, Ray Nitschke, Jim Ringo, and Forrest Gregg were already on the team when Lombardi arrived.
 
Ring Leader

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Aerolithe_Lion said:
second part is a tricky question. Romo wouldn’t have won the first vs Rams (probably doesn’t make it), as that was only Brady’s second year and Romo wasn’t nearly as good at that point.

2014 vs Seahawks and 2016 vs Falcons were incredible 4th quarter comebacks by Brady, also not sure anyone wins those except for Tom, or may Montana/Elway. 2018 maybe... and then there’s 2003 and 2004. Both seasons Patriots were arguably at their peak, but then both Super Bowls were Tom Brady game winning drives and Adam Vinatieri Clutch field goals away from losing, so maybe not. That’s a tough one to answer, as he never really convincingly won any until he got to TB.

First question I believe he definitely wins 1 in the Parcells era, and Parcells maybe stays longer if he had tom brady. Probably also 2007 if he still left, as you barely lost in the divisional round to the giants who won the Super Bowl... and your SB opponent of course wouldn’t have been Tom Brady. So the result there would have probably been a decade of Wade instead of Garrett, but at least some hardware to go with it
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At the least the Brady vs Montana debate is now dead and buried, unless you're a delusional 9ers fan.
 
JJHLH1

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Brady >>> Belichick

It’s not even debatable in my opinion.

Belichick has a 61-72 career record without Brady, and only 1 playoff win. That’s a huge sample size of failure.

In 2008 when Brady tore his ACL in the first game Belichick and the Patriots didn’t even make the playoffs without him, and that team was loaded (16-0 the year before).

Brady carried those New England teams. He has 20-straight winning seasons and 34 playoff wins because he’s the best whose ever played the sport.
 
JW82

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CATCH17 said:
No crap.. He jumped to a built team.

Brady proved the year before he couldn't win with that either.

Now we're judging Belichick on a ship that was sinking while Brady jumps on a brand new ship that is getting guys like Gronk and Antonio Brown and a discount.

You guys saw Brady on that ship and a lot of you said he should retire.
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So brady has to win a championship every year he's at QB to get credit? Not sure who "You guys" are but I'm not one of them. We see loaded teams lose all the time, see Philthy's "dream team" who sucked. It's actually rare that it works out, outside of the NBA.
 
GMO415

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Why is this in the Cowboys forum? Neither one of these Adam Henry's are on our squad.
 
Aerolithe_Lion

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JW82 said:
So brady has to win a championship every year he's at QB to get credit? Not sure who "You guys" are but I'm not one of them. We see loaded teams lose all the time, see Philthy's "dream team" who sucked. It's actually rare that it works out, outside of the NBA.
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And even calling TB loaded is a stretch. Both their star WRs had down years, Evans was his worst year as a pro. The Oline got great grades for pass protection, but very poor for run blocking as They have one of the worst run games in the entire NFL, not even averaging 100 yards game. Brady carried them offensively.
 
CouchCoach

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How do you separate them? They were perfect for each other.

Brady needed a coach to take care of everything else and just let him execute the game plan. Belichick built the D, run game and assembled a coaching staff that enabled Brady to be the pure game manager.

Brady wasn't Belichick's weapon, he was in charge of the weapons and he was excellent at it. No QB that I ever watched had a running pitch count of the number of receivers Brady had already involved in the game and the highest I ever saw was 9 different receivers in the Q1, that's unbelievable. Most teams don't have 9 different ones that get in the game.

I always thought Brady should have had a nickname like the "Mad Scientist" for Belichick. I think he should be "The Executioner" because no QB has ever done it better. A Lot of QB's understand the concept of weapons, Brady understands the concept of all weapons.
 
kevm3

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Attributing the Bucs winning the superbowl to just brady showing up is inaccurate. The Bucs had a defense that held Mahomes to 9 points in the superbowl. They were a STACKED team all around. Brady wasn't the only change. Leave Brady on the Patriots but put Jason Garrett as head coach, does he win the Superbowl? Probably not. Put Belichick on the chiefs or even tampa bay and give him a decent qb, does he win the superbowl? I think so.

Name one weakness on that tampa bay team... excellent defense (6th best in the league), great runningback in Fournette, great receivers in Mike Evans and Antonio Brown. If Brady went to some garbage team and won the superbowl, I'd definitely give him the edge.
 
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