Brady or Belicheat?

CATCH17

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So brady has to win a championship every year he's at QB to get credit? Not sure who "You guys" are but I'm not one of them. We see loaded teams lose all the time, see Philthy's "dream team" who sucked. It's actually rare that it works out, outside of the NBA.

No.. Brady is awesome.

It’s not this clear cut thing that 1 is great and the other is overrated.

They’re both unbelievable.

I just think Belichick is the more unbelievable of the 2.

Tom Brady isn’t even the best QB in football and he’s maybe been the best QB in football once or twice throughout his career.

IMO, Belichick is better at coaching than Tom Brady is playing QB.
 

kevm3

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Brady >>> Belichick

It’s not even debatable in my opinion.

Belichick has a 61-72 career record without Brady, and only 1 playoff win. That’s a huge sample size of failure.

In 2008 when Brady tore his ACL in the first game Belichick and the Patriots didn’t even make the playoffs without him, and that team was loaded (16-0 the year before).

Brady carried those New England teams. He has 20-straight winning seasons and 34 playoff wins because he’s the best whose ever played the sport.

If Brady was on the Cleveland Browns for the first half of his career, his record wouldn't be looking too stellar either.
 

JW82

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No.. Brady is awesome.

It’s not this clear cut thing that 1 is great and the other is overrated.

They’re both unbelievable.

I just think Belichick is the more unbelievable of the 2.

Tom Brady isn’t even the best QB in football and he’s maybe been the best QB in football once or twice throughout his career.

IMO, Belichick is better at coaching than Tom Brady is playing QB.

It's certainly debatable. Just, as someone who can't stand Brady, I've given up making excuses for not calling him the GOAT. Nothing more degrading than having a QB pick your team apart like a vulture picking apart some roadkill, then stand up in the press conference wearing his wife's fur coat and talk about it....
 

CATCH17

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It's certainly debatable. Just, as someone who can't stand Brady, I've given up making excuses for not calling him the GOAT. Nothing more degrading than having a QB pick your team apart like a vulture picking apart some roadkill, then stand up in the press conference wearing his wife's fur coat and talk about it....

Im fine calling him the goat.

Im fine calling Jerry Rice the goat too.

Just make sure Emmitt Smith is also known as the goat if we’re going by Rice & Brady standards because I don’t know how you call those 2 goats at their position and say Emmitt isn’t.
 

nobody

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my main thought process is you can select any available coach you desire when you have an opening; you can’t exactly replace Tom Brady with just anybody. Would Dak + Belichick really do better than Brady + McCarthy? Brady + Pederson? Brady + even Garrett?

And then consider if you’re not the Cowboys. What if it’s San Diego. Belichick + Herbert, or Belichick + FitzPatrick, or Belichick + Jared Goff. Your alternative is drafting a QB and crossing your fingers. And even if he hits, he won’t be Tom Brady.

I don’t mean to say Belichick isn’t a great Head Coach. But the difference between Belichick and the next best available isn’t all 6 rings. For Brady though it might be

Then again if the coaching is bad enough not even Brady could save things. Think about Marino. It seems a lot of the coaches mentioned earlier were defensive minds paired with HoF quality QB's. The old adage of defenses winning championships mostly still holds true. The offense has to score though.
 

Turk

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It's like the most recent superbowl never happened. Did you miss it, were you unaware of the particpants?

Simply put, Belichick has a losing record without Brady. Them's just the facts.
The fact is that one year means nothing. Grow up.
 

Turk

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It's certainly debatable. Just, as someone who can't stand Brady, I've given up making excuses for not calling him the GOAT. Nothing more degrading than having a QB pick your team apart like a vulture picking apart some roadkill, then stand up in the press conference wearing his wife's fur coat and talk about it....
If Brady was so great why did he not win another ring in 2019? It was pretty much the same team. What happened? The QB you worshipped could not get the job done then.
 

Vtwin

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After last season, how can you not go w Brady. This is obvious now.
I watched his defense completely bail TB out in at least one playoff game, if not two.

This is not a diss of Brady, just an acknowledgment of the reality.

If Brady was drafted by the Browns, or Cowboys, he has no rings.

Great QB who fell in to the perfect circumstances. Just like Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach etc.

He is, OotGOAT.
 

JJHLH1

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If Brady was on the Cleveland Browns for the first half of his career, his record wouldn't be looking too stellar either.

We don’t know that at all.

New England had never won a Super Bowl until Brady showed up.

Tampa Bay hadn’t won a playoff game since 2002 until Brady showed up.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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We don’t know that at all.

New England had never won a Super Bowl until Brady showed up.

Tampa Bay hadn’t won a playoff game since 2002 until Brady showed up.

Also Belichick was head coach for 5 years in Cleveland before Brady and didn’t do squat
 

JJHLH1

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Also Belichick was head coach for 5 years in Cleveland before Brady and didn’t do squat

Exactly. He had 5 years to turn things around in Cleveland and failed.

And Belichick was also 5-11 his first year in New England (2000) and 0-2 to start the season in 2001 before Bledsoe was injured and Brady came in and posted an 11-3 record on his way to leading them to their first Super Bowl Championship.
 

DFWJC

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I mean..... Bledsoe was a good QB but he wasn't impossible to beat out. Brady didn't have to beat out Favre or Marino or anything. Brady is obviously a very good Quarterback, and it's quite possible he didn't really get his chance at Michigan and his lack of playing time could be why a 3rd round talent ordinarily fell all the way to the 6th round.

This reminds me of Dak Prescott in a way. While Dak played more than Brady ever did in college, he also wasn't supposed to ever be a 4th rounder. There was something about the way he was perceived. Maybe he wasn't seen as a true Quarterback or something.....but he obviously was much better than a 4th rounder, as we saw he was an instant success in the NFL. If you watched him in college this should've never been in doubt.

But let's be serious now. Belichick is way more valuable than Brady. It's not even close.

this is a bizarre post
 

DFWJC

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No crap.. He jumped to a built team.

Brady proved the year before he couldn't win with that either.

Now we're judging Belichick on a ship that was sinking while Brady jumps on a brand new ship that is getting guys like Gronk and Antonio Brown and a discount.

You guys saw Brady on that ship and a lot of you said he should retire.
Yes...the right answer is both.

I do think you forget that New England was 12-4 during Brady’s last year.....and that was a truly crap offensive roster.
 

Big_D

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Like coaching wasn't important for a 6th round pick and learning to read a D from probably the best coach to do it. Then putting him in a scheme built for success. You see how Brady threw to his RBs in NE. No other team did that. He could throw to James White 9 times in a row in the first quarter, then use one of the other 6 backs they had on the team for the rest of the game. lol These 2 and their success go hand in hand. Now he's a seasoned vet who knows the ins and outs, that wasn't always the case. But that short passing game and RB useage was the key that NE didn't operate like any other team.
 

CATCH17

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Like coaching wasn't important for a 6th round pick and learning to read a D from probably the best coach to do it. Then putting him in a scheme built for success. You see how Brady threw to his RBs in NE. No other team did that. He could throw to James White 9 times in a row in the first quarter, then use one of the other 6 backs they had on the team for the rest of the game. lol These 2 and their success go hand in hand. Now he's a seasoned vet who knows the ins and outs, that wasn't always the case. But that short passing game and RB useage was the key that NE didn't operate like any other team.


Smartest answer in this thread besides some of mine. Nice post.

Brady is playing into his 40s because of the reasons you listed that all have to do with coaching.
 

atlantacowboy

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I'll take Brady. If he can lead Bruce Arians to super bowl victory at age 43, i'm pretty sure he could win anywhere let alone in his prime..........and Belechek couldn't even lead his to the playoffs without him.
 

atlantacowboy

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I guess the answer is.. If I have a great roster... Give me Brady.. If my roster is trash then give me Belichick.

It's like Andy Reid. He is a phenom as a offensive minded coach. Maybe the best to ever do it. I'm taking Mahomes over him all day regardless of circumstances.

IMO, Belichick is just in another league than all other coaches but his roster is trash and it's not getting better this year in a division that'sBelec on the come up vs the NFC south that's going to get worse.

You realize Belechek has done nothing without Brady right? I'm not saying he's not a great coach and this debate would have been relevant before 2020.......but it got settled last year. Brady won a super bowl with a HC who had never lead a team to a super bowl and Belechek got to watch the playoffs from his couch. And don't tell me how good the bucs were...........they sucked before Brady arrived.
 

Rockport

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Who would you rather have in their prime, arguably the best HC of his era, or arguably the best QB of his era?

Without question, I take Belicheat.

Of course Brady plays the most important position, and does it extremely well, but bottom line, Brady like all great QB’s, only plays on one side of the ball.

Football is the ultimate team sport. So it should go without being said, coaching is extremely important to the success of the team. Belicheat prepares every facet of the game. A great HC, like Belicheat, consistently puts his players in positions, to make it easier, for them to make plays.
Then why do you crap on Dak all the time for every Cowboys loss?
 

CATCH17

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You realize Belechek has done nothing without Brady right? I'm not saying he's not a great coach and this debate would have been relevant before 2020.......but it got settled last year. Brady won a super bowl with a HC who had never lead a team to a super bowl and Belechek got to watch the playoffs from his couch. And don't tell me how good the bucs were...........they sucked before Brady arrived.

He has 2 Superbowls with the Giants on a defensive lead team.

He made the Browns, the joke of the NfL, to a respectable franchise while he was there.

He also won almost all the time when Brady was out of the lineup during Brady’s time in New England with some random QBs.

Brady jumped shipped to a well built team after having no success the year before and many calling him to retire and with that same team and players sitting out for Covid that’s why we are willing to say Brady is better? Puh lease.

Y’all are disrespecting Belichick. He’s the goat of coaching and he’s held a lot of opposing offense to nothing while New England wins squeakers.

I mean Brady’s first Super Bowl? That was all about Belichick shutting down Mike Martz and the greatest show on turf and there were several playoff and Super bowl games like that.

The Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl? That was all Belichicks management of the game.

He bamboozles opposing offenses.
 
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