Brady or Belicheat?

CATCH17 said:

He has 2 Superbowls with the Giants on a defensive lead team.

He made the Browns, the joke of the NfL, to a respectable franchise while he was there.

He also won almost time Brady was out of the lineup during Brady’s time in New England with some random QBs.

Brady jumped shipped to a well built team after having no success the year before and many calling him to retire and with that same team and players sitting out for Covid that’s why we are willing to say Brady is better? Puh lease.

Y’all are disrespecting Belichick. He’s the goat of coaching and he’s held a lot of opposing offense to nothing while New England wins squeakers.

I mean Brady’s first Super Bowl? That was all about Belichick shutting down Mike Martz and the greatest show on turf and there were several playoff and Super bowl games like that.

The Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl? That was all Belichicks management of the game.

He bamboozles opposing offenses.

Click to expand...

Now we know, you’re a closet Patriots sniffer.

Rockport said:

Now we know, you’re a closet Patriots sniffer.

Click to expand...

No I’m a Cowboys fan with nothing to brag about. We’re trash.

CATCH17 said:

Smartest answer in this thread besides some of mine. Nice post.

Brady is playing into his 40s because of the reasons you listed that all have to do with coaching.

Click to expand...

Amazingly enough after the past 10 years some still minimize the importance of coaching and what that coaching did for a guy like Brady when he was a young player. They don't step on the field HOFs from day 1 and that success don't carry over to any team in the league if he was drafted elsewhere. Scheme, preparation, surrounding talent, and a coach who can put all that together. It takes more than just drafting Tom Brady. Specially when he was the one smart enough to take him in the first place.

Big_D said:

Amazingly enough after the past 10 years some still minimize the importance of coaching and what that coaching did for a guy like Brady when he was a young player. They don't step on the field HOFs from day 1 and that success don't carry over to any team in the league if he was drafted elsewhere. Scheme, preparation, surrounding talent, and a coach who can put all that together. It takes more than just drafting Tom Brady. Specially when he was the one smart enough to take him in the first place.

Click to expand...

Im not a fan of Belichick the GM.. I think he’s awful at it but I will say he knows when to get rid of a guy. Drafting though? Yuck.

CATCH17 said:

Im not a fan of Belichick the GM.. I think he’s awful at it but I will say he knows when to get rid of a guy. Drafting though? Yuck.

Click to expand...

It's still much more than draft day. People seem to rave about the job the Cowboys do drafting the past decade, yet they don't win anything. He knows when to part ways, how to utilize free agency and how to use his players. The full combo. So if bad drafting equals 6 championships and a 30-11 playoff record I'll take it.

CATCH17 said:

He has 2 Superbowls with the Giants on a defensive lead team.

He made the Browns, the joke of the NfL, to a respectable franchise while he was there.

He also won almost all the time when Brady was out of the lineup during Brady’s time in New England with some random QBs.

Brady jumped shipped to a well built team after having no success the year before and many calling him to retire and with that same team and players sitting out for Covid that’s why we are willing to say Brady is better? Puh lease.

Y’all are disrespecting Belichick. He’s the goat of coaching and he’s held a lot of opposing offense to nothing while New England wins squeakers.

I mean Brady’s first Super Bowl? That was all about Belichick shutting down Mike Martz and the greatest show on turf and there were several playoff and Super bowl games like that.

The Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl? That was all Belichicks management of the game.

He bamboozles opposing offenses.

Click to expand...

You are stretching . The fact is that Belecheat hasn't won a super bowl as a HC without Brady. What he did as a DC doesn't matter. Wade Phillips was also a great DC. Who knows how many super bowls he could have won with Brady.

CATCH17 said:

No I’m a Cowboys fan with nothing to brag about. We’re trash.

Click to expand...

Not even close to trash. With the offensive line back healthy and Dak leading the charge with Zeke, Coop, Lamb and Galloway we’ll have a top 5 offense once again. With Quinn at the DC helm and the Dawgs he drafted on defense I expect a better than average defense. This team is far from trash,,,except for fans like yourself.

atlantacowboy said:

I'll take Brady. If he can lead Bruce Arians to super bowl victory at age 43, i'm pretty sure he could win anywhere let alone in his prime..........and Belechek couldn't even lead his to the playoffs without him.

Click to expand...

Give Bellichick a team with Mike Evans, Antonio Brown, Leonard Fournette, Gronk, a top 6 defense with Todd Bowles as DC and Suh on the team and he'd have won a superbowl this year too. New England is a 'system team' that needs a stable qb and they need time to practice together, which they didn't have due to Covid, because they aren't stocked with talent due to picking last or close to last nearly every year.

Rockport said:

Then why do you crap on Dak all the time for every Cowboys loss?

Click to expand...

I don’t, but now that he is making 40 million per year, I will expect a little more from him. Example to play better, and beat a team like Philly when Philly has NO receivers and Wentz as their QB.

atlantacowboy said:

You are stretching . The fact is that Belecheat hasn't won a super bowl as a HC without Brady. What he did as a DC doesn't matter. Wade Phillips was also a great DC. Who knows how many super bowls he could have won with Brady.

Click to expand...

After 10 years of watching what a mediocre coach means, you really missed the point, didn't you?

its not brady or belichick... its not belichick or brady... it was Brady and Belichick

Belichick benefited from having Brady, a driven player who placed winning above all else...
Brady benefited from having a coach who was as driven as he was to win...

Belichick in Cleveland? That was a different era, the game was different, players were different... 5 years learning the job, what it takes to win, time spent refining his process... learning what he wanted in a player, and yes learning how to get what he wanted from the player... he tore that team down and was rebuilding it when the decision was made to move to Baltimore... who knows what would have happened if Modell kept him instead of bringing in ted marchibroda

Brady was able to succeed early on because of that insight, that coaching... He learned how to be a quarterback from Belichick... and more importantly Brady was willing to learn, and the guy aced it... He took what he learned and became the best ...

This past years success as a direct result of what Brady learned during his time in New England...

As for Bill and New Englands lack of success in 2020, all i will offer its not easy replacing a player like Brady... Harder to build a team than it is to go to a team that was able to rebuild over multiple seasons, that was lacking one or two pieces... Winston held that team back in his first year under Arians because he wasn't capable of running it property... his 30+ interceptions is direct evidence of that...

CATCH17 said:

He made the Browns, the joke of the NfL, to a respectable franchise while he was there.

He also won almost all the time when Brady was out of the lineup during Brady’s time in New England with some random QBs.

Brady jumped shipped to a well built team after having no success the year before

Y’all are disrespecting Belichick. He’s the goat of coaching and he’s held a lot of opposing offense to nothing while New England wins squeakers.

The Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl? That was all Belichicks management of the game.

Click to expand...

The Cleveland Browns were in the playoffs 5 out of 6 years before Belichick took over as head coach. In 3 of those years they went to the Conference Championship.

Belichick has accomplished nothing without Brady.

Belichick was 5-13 in New England before Brady took over as QB. In his first game Brady was playing Peyton Manning and the Colts. The Patriots were double digit underdogs and won by 31 points. They went on to win the Super Bowl that year.

Their success was 90% Brady and 10% Belichick.

Brady had 4th quarter game-winning drives in all his Super Bowl wins with the Patriots.

He threw for over 500 yards in their loss to the Eagles. Belichick’s defense gave up over 40 points because he was too stubborn to put Malcolm Butler in the game. Dumb coaching with cost them another title.

Brady won 12 games his last season in New England despite having no weapons.

Turk said:

After 10 years of watching what a mediocre coach means, you really missed the point, didn't you?

Click to expand...

I think even Garret could win with Brady. I think all Brady needs is a decent DC. Pretty certain Belechek couldn't come to Dallas and win a super bowl without Brady.

Even the great Jimmy Johnson who was every bit as good a coach as Belechek couldn't win without a great QB.

JJHLH1 said:

The Cleveland Browns were in the playoffs 5 out of 6 years before Belichick took over as head coach. In 3 of those years they went to the Conference Championship.

Belichick has accomplished nothing without Brady.

Belichick was 5-13 in New England before Brady took over as QB. In his first game Brady was playing Peyton Manning and the Colts. The Patriots were double digit underdogs and won by 31 points. They went on to win the Super Bowl that year.

Their success was 90% Brady and 10% Belichick.

Brady had 4th quarter game-winning drives in all his Super Bowl wins with the Patriots.

He threw for over 500 yards in their loss to the Eagles. Belichick’s defense gave up over 40 points because he was too stubborn to put Malcolm Butler in the game. Dumb coaching with cost them another title.

Brady won 12 games his last season in New England despite having no weapons.

Click to expand...

Another lazy analysis ... what did you do, look at pfr and see the records? Didn't bother to look at the rosters? Didn't bother to note all of the key pieces aged, were injured, were no longer pro bowl caliber players?

the browns won under Schottenheimer ... Good coach who could build a team and maintain it.

The browns fell apart under carson... rode the coattails of schotty for a year while the wheels started to come off

then schofner ... basically the guy left standing, - he drove the bus for the remainder of the season after carson was canned...

Belichick rebuilt that team from the ground up.


BB's first year in New England was all about roster building... bringing in guys he wanted... his types of players... and jettisoning guys who were not...

Pape said:

Another lazy analysis ... what did you do, look at pfr and see the records? Didn't bother to look at the rosters? Didn't bother to note all of the key pieces aged, were injured, were no longer pro bowl caliber players?

the browns won under Schottenheimer ... Good coach who could build a team and maintain it.

The browns fell apart under carson... rode the coattails of schotty for a year while the wheels started to come off

then schofner ... basically the guy left standing, - he drove the bus for the remainder of the season after carson was canned...

Belichick rebuilt that team from the ground up.


BB's first year in New England was all about roster building... bringing in guys he wanted... his types of players... and jettisoning guys who were not...

Click to expand...

Belechek is a great coach. But the question is how many super bowls does he win without Brady? Certainly not 6. I think Brady proved the point last year.

atlantacowboy said:

Belechek is a great coach. But the question is how many super bowls does he win without Brady? Certainly not 6. I think Brady proved the point last year.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but Brady doesn't win 6 w/o Belly.

IDK why people argue incessantly over this when it's blatantly obvious that it's talent meets talent.

Basically, when most teams stumble onto a talented QB, they fill their roster w/ WR's and TE's and any player on O to build the O around that QB.

The reason Belly/Brady won so much together is that Belly focused on D and the OLine. Even when the Pats D fell apart, they were generally good enough for deep playoff runs. And in those super bowls vs ATL and LAR, the D clearly won both those games. Absolutely masterful D gameplan by Belly.

atlantacowboy said:

I think even Garret could win with Brady. I think all Brady needs is a decent DC. Pretty certain Belechek couldn't come to Dallas and win a super bowl without Brady.

Even the great Jimmy Johnson who was every bit as good a coach as Belechek couldn't win without a great QB.

Click to expand...

Out of the 6 super bowls, ATL, LAR twice, and SEA would not have been won w/ a decent DC.

Two difference makers in Brady and Belly. Once again, why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

atlantacowboy said:

Belechek is a great coach. But the question is how many super bowls does he win without Brady? Certainly not 6. I think Brady proved the point last year.

Click to expand...

I don't have an answer to that particular question because it cannot be answered... each and every title is a combination of many moving parts that come together to get thru the obstacles of any given nfl season...

Its frustrating to me personally because its a big picture argument and people continually want to narrow the scope... It doesn't / can't work that way because Party A and Party B are not analogous... You cant separate out what they accomplished and make a valid comparison because each did two wildly different things...

kskboys said:

Out of the 6 super bowls, ATL, LAR twice, and SEA would not have been won w/ a decent DC.

Two difference makers in Brady and Belly. Once again, why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

Click to expand...

I don't get it either ksk... people seemingly have a burning desire to break it down and try to compare what, in its basic essence, can't be compared...

Pape said:

Another lazy analysis ... what did you do, look at pfr and see the records? Didn't bother to look at the rosters? Didn't bother to note all of the key pieces aged, were injured, were no longer pro bowl caliber players?

the browns won under Schottenheimer ... Good coach who could build a team and maintain it.

The browns fell apart under carson... rode the coattails of schotty for a year while the wheels started to come off

then schofner ... basically the guy left standing, - he drove the bus for the remainder of the season after carson was canned...

Belichick rebuilt that team from the ground up.


BB's first year in New England was all about roster building... bringing in guys he wanted... his types of players... and jettisoning guys who were not...

Click to expand...

Belichick has accomplished nothing without Brady: 61-72 record and 1 playoff win. Those are the cold hard facts.