Upon Further Review

Techsass

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Not watching college ball, I'm usually in a wait & see mode after the draft. I probably pay a little too much attention to the CZers who love college football to form an opinion on who we drafted.

Still this draft didn't WOW me much. I think we helped out the D a bunch, which was absolutely necessary.
 

AsthmaField

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Good stuff!!!

Like you, I was completely bamboozled at the Diggy/Golston picks. Looked like 2 more Crawfords. However, if they were picked to be 3/4 DE's, that makes perfect sense. Especially Diggy, who seems to fit the profile of the disruptive DE.
Odighizuwa will primarily be a 3T DT. Quinn said they brought him in for the nickel 3T, so he’ll be part of the 4 man line.
 

CouchCoach

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True, but I think it also would have “helped” rival teams know who they valued. If they needed to fool me to fool the competition? I’m OK with that.
To be sure, I was just talking about us being aware of what they were doing because I was in the dark.

What is going to be most interesting to me is to see how Quinn will use these players because they were chosen with roles in mind for them. I tend to look at players on a level playing field and not filling roles. Cox is a definite role filler as well as more than a few of his rookie teammates.
 

Stash

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To be sure, I was just talking about us being aware of what they were doing because I was in the dark.

What is going to be most interesting to me is to see how Quinn will use these players because they were chosen with roles in mind for them. I tend to look at players on a level playing field and not filling roles. Cox is a definite role filler as well as more than a few of his rookie teammates.

I hear you. I have that same tendency. But I think that they had a plan and executed it as best they could.
 

JoeKing

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Now that we know all the names, I think Dan Quinn will do a fine job with the D-line roster of players. It's in the secondary where I have my concerns. Coach Joe Whitt Jr. has his work cut out for him to get that part of the D back to functional. We have a long list of CBs to choose from. Which ones will be making the transition to safety and who will our starting safeties be? With Xavier Woods gone, who is getting that starting job? They will have certain roles for certain players depending on the scheme they are using. It's just a lot to be figured out.
 

SSoup

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If they are going to run the 3-4... this was a better address of that than when Parcells moved the team to the 3/4.
That's a bit much. When we finally switched to the 34 after wasting two years of the Parcells era on 43 nonsense, we had a monster of a draft picking front-seven guys that first offseason for our new 34 defense. Ware, Ratliff, Spears, Canty, and Burnett? I'd take that bunch over the front-seven guys we picked in 2021.
 

btcutter

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Regarding this year's draft, I was one of many who weren't overly thrilled with the draft decisions that were made. But after looking into things more closely, I have changed my mind quite a bit. Hearing Dan Quinn's press conference, I realized that I was under the mistaken impression that the team was drafting for a 4-3 defense when this was not the case.

Initially, I was not a fan of drafting Micah Parsons, given what the team had already put into Jaylon Smith, Leighton Vander Esch, and the signing of Keanu Neal. But looking at things through that '3-4 lens', the decisions look much smarter.

I also felt that Odighizuwa and Golston were poor choices for 4-3 defensive tackle and defensive end respectively. It turns out that I now think I was wrong, and that both in fact were drafted to be 3-4 defensive ends, a position with far different athletic requirements.

Looking deeper, it looks like the Carlos Watkins and Brent Urban signings were to play 3-4 end as well. The signs were there, but I didn't see them until now. And I actually credit the team for not formally announcing the scheme prior to the draft. They kept that news quiet and did not give opponents the opportunity to assume what players they were looking for. I think that was a smart move, as well as the talk of downgrading players who opted out in 2020. Given who they drafted, that was clearly not the case. I'm giving Jerry credit for throwing that chum in the water as well. I criticize when I feel he gives out to much information, so I give credit where I feel it's due when he slips in some disinformation.

My initial draft grade was a C if I recall correctly. Given what I know now, I will gladly readjust my grade to an A-. Other than the off-the-wall pick of Nahshon Wright, the haul looks much better today.

I know this draft shouldn't be graded until 3 years down the line.
I see many including talking heads for the Cowboys now changing their tunes regarding how good this draft is.

Unfortunately the longer I sit and read I actually think this draft is WORSE than I thought.

1. Unless Parson becomes a KJ Wright or HOF player then it's really a wasted pick when we have a log jam at the LB position after FA. Even with conversion to 3-4 we still have too many LBs. Could have pick one later. Cox may end up being the better pick just because he will see a lot of snaps as dime or nickel LB.
We can't cut LB Smith or LVE due to salary reasons and trade value for LVE is probably a conditional 4-5th rounder due to medical issues.

2. Slater should have been the pick at 12. Did we forget both of our T were out last year? When was the last time Tyron Smith played an entire season? Oh, NFL just added another game to the season as well. Slater would be playing G at Connors place and then kick out to T if there's an injury or ultimately take Tyron's place. Much more likely to be a sure fire 10 year quality starter if not more.

2. Quinn system. Ok, we just devoted an entire draft class to "his" system. I understand let the cook pick the groceries. But Quinn may only be here for a year. He wants to be a head coach. What do we do with some of these picks which take time to develop when he leaves? ....... Once we got CB in the 2nd round *** are we reaching for Wright in the 3rd as if we don't have other positions to fill....like OL? When is Wright going to see the field when we have CB Brown and Lewis?
This draft is moving us more to a 3-4 which is fine. Whatever works. FO better be sticking to this philosophy or else we just wasted more resources for a 1 year experiment.

3. Failure to address the OL. Ok we did with a 4th and 7th rounder. Yes, one was potentially a 2nd round talent except.... This draft was loaded with OT talent AND we have a need. Was it so hard to use one of our 3rd rounders on one once we passed on Slater in 1st.

4. Log jam at DT. Competition is good. But sound like we may being giving up on Hill pretty soon (3rd rounder) with the FA signings and draft.

Enough of my rant...got it out of my system.
I pray I am totally wrong and the Cowboys hit on all 11 picks!
 

btcutter

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As for Gregory, I think he's a pass rush specialist and many draft forecasts had him ticketed for a 3-4 role anyway. This may actually be his best fit.

Gregory is way undervalued in his run defense IMO. Sure he may be best as 3-4 OLB but he more than holds his own as RDE. He's much stronger than he appears and those long arms often keeps T from pushing his off LOS. He is far better than Robert Quinn ever at run defense.

Gregory should be on the field on all 3 downs IMO. If he and Parsons are our two OLBs in a 3-4 that's going to be scary.
 

gimmesix

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I think Lawrence will be in that LEO role rushing the passer in his favored stance.



If I had to guess at the other nose candidate right now? And it’s just that, a guess, I’d say Gallimore. I’m not sure Hill even has a role on this team. I certainly don’t think he’s scheme sound enough to play the nose.



For this year anyway.

I’d make sure to play him in a SOLB role where he’s moving forward as much as possible and in coverage as little as possible.

I don't see Gallimore at NT. Playing the run is not considered to be a strength. I would think Odighizuwa (even though he's smaller) and Urban (even though he's taller) would be the options beyond Bohanna.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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But, you mean the Cowboys kept some of their plans hidden? Not possible. Catch17 said would know who they were going to pick every round because the front office doesn't know how to hide anything. I do appreciate Stash's post because I generally think he is pretty level headed and thoughtful in his posting. With gaining new information about our defensive plans, it is nice to see that he could admit that his initial reaction was based on faulty intel. Doesn't mean the draft is all of a sudden an A+ draft, it just makes more sense with what we did and when we did it.

I really wish we had gotten an answer at S like Moehrig or Grant. I would have liked a better interior swing man type because we really only have one true center on the roster, and our LG position is still average at best. I can see going for an OT, but right now we have about 8 on the roster..it would have been somewhat of a luxury pick early.

We really are giving Quinn unheard of support from a personnel standpoint and it is pretty risky given he might not be here for the long haul, but let's go balls to the wall instead of playing it conservative. The conservative wife hasn't worked for this team in a LONG time.
 

NotForLong

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Not a 3-4. It's the Pete Carroll Seattle 4-3 hybrid. I have a draft article on the Wikipedia about it (getting it in draft status was a huge mistake)..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Seattle_4-3_hybrid_defense

For those of you who can't handle what I post on wikipedia, I willl recomment this Bob Condotta article on the Seattle Times about it.. Bucky Brooks also has a good article on it..

Defense 101

In the article we get this quote from DQ:
In part, it was successful by finding functional use of players like Kam Chancellor, who would have been regarded as a positionless "tweener" by more traditional NFL defenses.

This was also in the article. . . sounds to me like Cox.
 

Stash

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Gregory is way undervalued in his run defense IMO. Sure he may be best as 3-4 OLB but he more than holds his own as RDE. He's much stronger than he appears and those long arms often keeps T from pushing his off LOS. He is far better than Robert Quinn ever at run defense.

Gregory should be on the field on all 3 downs IMO. If he and Parsons are our two OLBs in a 3-4 that's going to be scary.

Oh, please don’t take my comments about Gregory as thinking he’s a run liability. That wasn’t the intent.
 

Stash

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I don't see Gallimore at NT. Playing the run is not considered to be a strength. I would think Odighizuwa (even though he's smaller) and Urban (even though he's taller) would be the options beyond Bohanna.

I guess we’ll see how things shake out in camps.
:thumbup:
 

gimmesix

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I guess we’ll see how things shake out in camps.
:thumbup:

Yeah, it's going to be very interesting and exciting. I just hope it doesn't turn out like Nolan, who also used some of the same principles. But I don't think it will because Nolan was more stubborn about doing things a certain way even when the players were failing at it and he didn't have much of a preseason to implement the scheme change.
 

CouchCoach

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I know this draft shouldn't be graded until 3 years down the line.
I see many including talking heads for the Cowboys now changing their tunes regarding how good this draft is.

Unfortunately the longer I sit and read I actually think this draft is WORSE than I thought.

1. Unless Parson becomes a KJ Wright or HOF player then it's really a wasted pick when we have a log jam at the LB position after FA. Even with conversion to 3-4 we still have too many LBs. Could have pick one later. Cox may end up being the better pick just because he will see a lot of snaps as dime or nickel LB.
We can't cut LB Smith or LVE due to salary reasons and trade value for LVE is probably a conditional 4-5th rounder due to medical issues.

2. Slater should have been the pick at 12. Did we forget both of our T were out last year? When was the last time Tyron Smith played an entire season? Oh, NFL just added another game to the season as well. Slater would be playing G at Connors place and then kick out to T if there's an injury or ultimately take Tyron's place. Much more likely to be a sure fire 10 year quality starter if not more.

2. Quinn system. Ok, we just devoted an entire draft class to "his" system. I understand let the cook pick the groceries. But Quinn may only be here for a year. He wants to be a head coach. What do we do with some of these picks which take time to develop when he leaves? ....... Once we got CB in the 2nd round *** are we reaching for Wright in the 3rd as if we don't have other positions to fill....like OL? When is Wright going to see the field when we have CB Brown and Lewis?
This draft is moving us more to a 3-4 which is fine. Whatever works. FO better be sticking to this philosophy or else we just wasted more resources for a 1 year experiment.

3. Failure to address the OL. Ok we did with a 4th and 7th rounder. Yes, one was potentially a 2nd round talent except.... This draft was loaded with OT talent AND we have a need. Was it so hard to use one of our 3rd rounders on one once we passed on Slater in 1st.

4. Log jam at DT. Competition is good. But sound like we may being giving up on Hill pretty soon (3rd rounder) with the FA signings and draft.

Enough of my rant...got it out of my system.
I pray I am totally wrong and the Cowboys hit on all 11 picks!
I think that 3 year rule is gone, it's at the most a 2 year but on the first two days picks, more like a 1 year. You had the Jets taking a QB in the top 2 picks within 3 years, that has never happened before. Millen took 3 WR's in the 1st in a row.

Back in the day, few 1st round OL would see the field in their first year and HC's were reluctant to play rookies.

Add to this the GM and HC turnover and who's got 3 years? They've got to make the call quickly on whether this player can fulfill the position he was picked for. Parsons and Joseph were picked to be starters at their positions. Everyone else picked is a role player and role players are replaceable.
 

btcutter

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I think that 3 year rule is gone, it's at the most a 2 year but on the first two days picks, more like a 1 year. You had the Jets taking a QB in the top 2 picks within 3 years, that has never happened before. Millen took 3 WR's in the 1st in a row.

Back in the day, few 1st round OL would see the field in their first year and HC's were reluctant to play rookies.

Add to this the GM and HC turnover and who's got 3 years? They've got to make the call quickly on whether this player can fulfill the position he was picked for. Parsons and Joseph were picked to be starters at their positions. Everyone else picked is a role player and role players are replaceable.

Problem we have is that our GM doesn’t have a philosophy. It can change annually depending on who he hires. Which leads to constant revamping rosters to reflect coaches not a general philosophy. Meaning wasted years as reflected by lack of success over past 2 decades.
 

Clove

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Regarding this year's draft, I was one of many who weren't overly thrilled with the draft decisions that were made. But after looking into things more closely, I have changed my mind quite a bit. Hearing Dan Quinn's press conference, I realized that I was under the mistaken impression that the team was drafting for a 4-3 defense when this was not the case.

Initially, I was not a fan of drafting Micah Parsons, given what the team had already put into Jaylon Smith, Leighton Vander Esch, and the signing of Keanu Neal. But looking at things through that '3-4 lens', the decisions look much smarter.

I also felt that Odighizuwa and Golston were poor choices for 4-3 defensive tackle and defensive end respectively. It turns out that I now think I was wrong, and that both in fact were drafted to be 3-4 defensive ends, a position with far different athletic requirements.

Looking deeper, it looks like the Carlos Watkins and Brent Urban signings were to play 3-4 end as well. The signs were there, but I didn't see them until now. And I actually credit the team for not formally announcing the scheme prior to the draft. They kept that news quiet and did not give opponents the opportunity to assume what players they were looking for. I think that was a smart move, as well as the talk of downgrading players who opted out in 2020. Given who they drafted, that was clearly not the case. I'm giving Jerry credit for throwing that chum in the water as well. I criticize when I feel he gives out to much information, so I give credit where I feel it's due when he slips in some disinformation.

My initial draft grade was a C if I recall correctly. Given what I know now, I will gladly readjust my grade to an A-. Other than the off-the-wall pick of Nahshon Wright, the haul looks much better today.
This is why you're one of my favorite posters my man. When guys realize things and admit it, it makes you human and not an a hole. Keep up the great posts, since I don't post much anymore, I need guys like you to motivate me.
 

Clove

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I didn't really study Parsons much until after the draft and I wonder why? Dude is a pure stud. I'm glad he didn't play last year because had he played, he would definitely had been chosen top of the draft, or at the very least, in front of us. Obviously Quinn has an idea of the "type" of players he wants for the type of defense he wants. From what I saw drafted, he loves SPEED & SIZE. Something Jimmy loved too.
 
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