Quinn didn't want to "do just another rinse and repeat"

Coogiguy03 said:

With all due respect, me and you could be coaches and be better than what we had last year

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That is what everyone said after Marinelli was fired.

jazzcat22 said:

What scares me is them wanting to keep some things the same as last year. So what are we really going to get.
That system sucked. I know it was Nolan, and adding Quinn improves it overall right away. But somethings needed to be scrapped.

However, dropping DLaw in coverage did not seem to work. As a stand up rusher, did not seem to work. And dropping Armstrong in coverage was a disaster. They need to crap can that type of stuff.

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Exactly. Seems we are going in a similar direction with mismatched pieces.

CowboyRoy said:

Sure sounds a lot to me like Quinn is trying implement an entire new defense and mix it up with the 3-4/4-3 alignments just like Nolan tried to do.

The big difference this year being that Jones devoted and entire draft to changing out the personnel for Quinn as well as in FA. And obviously the full offseason of OTA's, and preseason to install it that Nolan never had.

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+1

stasheroo said:

Or maybe Wade helped to make it that "perfect situation"? As I said, he was a good coordinator before, and helped the Rams get there afterwards, but you don't want to hear that. Ruins that agenda you've got going.

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Yep, if I can get all of you to follow my agenda, I get to sit in Jerry's sweet for every home game. Come on, follow me, please! smh....ugh

CowboyRoy said:

Sure sounds a lot to me like Quinn is trying implement an entire new defense and mix it up with the 3-4/4-3 alignments just like Nolan tried to do.

The big difference this year being that Jones devoted and entire draft to changing out the personnel for Quinn as well as in FA. And obviously the full offseason of OTA's, and preseason to install it that Nolan never had.

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Spent the time after he was fired in MM barn with other rejects watching every play of all his bad defenses years, told Jerry he has a new plan with analytics and everything.

jnday said:

I am hoping for the best, but like all things related to the Cowboys, I mentally prepare for the worst.

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A true seasoned vet, right here.

Brax said:

Spent the time after he was fired in MM barn with other rejects watching every play of all his bad defenses years, told Jerry he has a new plan with analytics and everything.

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Yep and Jerry bought it again.

Risen Star said:

And I appreciate you never mentioning his name before the draft and spoiling their plans.

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No one mentioned ratliffs name either

stasheroo said:

Add his name to the long list. Nobody sees anything but demotions after Dallas. Or the outright end of their coaching careers.

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Really? The best defensive co-ordinator in the league was promoted to the position after coaching for the cowboys!

CowboyRoy said:

Sure sounds a lot to me like Quinn is trying implement an entire new defense and mix it up with the 3-4/4-3 alignments just like Nolan tried to do.

The big difference this year being that Jones devoted and entire draft to changing out the personnel for Quinn as well as in FA. And obviously the full offseason of OTA's, and preseason to install it that Nolan never had.

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Now hold on, Nolan was given:
2nd Rd - Diggs
3rd Rd - Gallimore
4th Rd - Robinson
5th Rd - Anae

Edge: Griffin, A.Smith
Interior: Poe, McCoy
Safety: Clinton-Dix
Corner: Worley

Yes, he didn’t get an opportunity to install his system in pre-season but he had a lot more resources given to him than Quinn has, it was just flushed down the toilet.

CowboyRoy said:

Yep and Jerry bought it again.

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lets hope he does something good, but as MM is looking for the same type D ran last year sure how it will work out.

Bullflop said:

Mike McCarthy and Dan Quinn made real efforts to change their ways.
What are the odds we'll get the best of both of 'em?
OTOH, who really knows we won't?!

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maybe we should have kept Jason.....

Rayman70 said:

MM had a major disadvantage last year. He had to play with dudes that he didnt really want.

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he has to win games.

MM hired a lot of his buddies to be coaches. Nolan/Philbin

DanA said:

Now hold on, Nolan was given:
2nd Rd - Diggs
3rd Rd - Gallimore
4th Rd - Robinson
5th Rd - Anae

Edge: Griffin, A.Smith
Interior: Poe, McCoy
Safety: Clinton-Dix
Corner: Worley

Yes, he didn’t get an opportunity to install his system in pre-season but he had a lot more resources given to him than Quinn has, it was just flushed down the toilet.

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Quinn got nearly the entire draft devoted to defense including the first round pick. FA he got what he wanted.

You can tell there is more of a commitment to Quinn.

Brax said:

lets hope he does something good, but as MM is looking for the same type D ran last year sure how it will work out.

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Definitely more talent this year overall. Much more time to install the system.

This defense was so atrocious, there's no way it can be very good in one off season. They just hope they can get to the lower-middle range this year, and if everything goes right take another step next year.

I don't have much faith at all in Quinn's record, but after listening to him, he'll at least have to connect to the players better than Nolan did. So maybe that'll help a little also.

But getting good players on this talentless bunch is a multi-year job.

Chocolate Lab said:

This defense was so atrocious, there's no way it can be very good in one off season. They just hope they can get to the lower-middle range this year, and if everything goes right take another step next year.

I don't have much faith at all in Quinn's record, but after listening to him, he'll at least have to connect to the players better than Nolan did. So maybe that'll help a little also.

But getting good players on this talentless bunch is a multi-year job.

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Well put. We've made some.modest improvements, but nothing to really get excited about. Really, our only hope on defense is that they can get really good at turning the ball over, because teams will still be able to run and throw on us this year

Chocolate Lab said:

This defense was so atrocious, there's no way it can be very good in one off season. They just hope they can get to the lower-middle range this year, and if everything goes right take another step next year.

I don't have much faith at all in Quinn's record, but after listening to him, he'll at least have to connect to the players better than Nolan did. So maybe that'll help a little also.

But getting good players on this talentless bunch is a multi-year job.

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Some of my confidence comes from the fact that I have seen some members of the defense play well at times. Demarcus Lawrence, Randy Gregory, Vander Esch, Jaylon Smith, Donovan Wilson, Trevon Diggs (at times), Keanu Neal, and Kazee.

And I feel that if they did it before, they can do it again.

Hawkeye0202 said:

Said before and will say again, we are a better defense right now than last year. At least 50% coz of this guy......

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nother-rinse-and-repeat-with-cowboys-defense/
Dan Quinn didn’t want to “do just another rinse and repeat” with Cowboys defense
Posted by Josh Alper on May 11, 2021, 10:07 AM EDT

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If the defense fails, it will likely indicate that there are problems beyond the D-Coordinator.

Quinn might not be the greatest DC but heis a guy that is still in the prime of his career and is a well regarded D-Coordinator.

Quinn had other offers to be a D-Coordinator.

Kiffin/Marinelli were past their prime when hired.

Nolan was a position coach for multiple years without other offers to become a DC again.

Rob Ryan was a known nut-job and most ex-coaches turn media guys said his scheme was unsound.

Wade Phillips is the last legit D-Coordinator that the Cowboys have had but he was bogged down trying to be a Head Coach.

jazzcat22 said:

What scares me is them wanting to keep some things the same as last year. So what are we really going to get.
That system sucked. I know it was Nolan, and adding Quinn improves it overall right away. But somethings needed to be scrapped.

However, dropping DLaw in coverage did not seem to work. As a stand up rusher, did not seem to work. And dropping Armstrong in coverage was a disaster. They need to crap can that type of stuff.

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DLaw played through injury issues in 2020. He had his lowest percent of snaps played per game of his career.

When the reports came out that Nolan was going to basically let players decide if they wanted to play standing up or hand down, Everson Griffen played hand down.
In the same types of situations that Griffen played hand down, DLaw played standing up despite Aldon Smith being the primary OLB/DE that Nolan wanted to play standing up.
- i.e. DLaw seemed to like standing up.

Armstrong got more snaps as the season progressed because they were trying to stop the bleeding against the run. I'm certain they new Armstrong would be a liability if isolated in coverage.

The problems with Nolan's scheme was not the alignment.

Nolan's #1 problem was that he didn't get buy-in from players. He even had an argument with Sean Lee on the sideline during a game.

Nolan's #2 problem was playing a read and react style. The best defenses in the modern era play primarily an attack/penetrating style.

Modern 3-4 defenses have evolved to the Wade Phillips style and away from the Bill Parcells style of 3-4 defense.

Nolan's #3 problem was no real off-season. That is a big disadvantage for a new coaching staff, especially a D-Coordinator changing a defense from 4-3 to 3-4.

When Quinn said "keep what they did well" he might be referring to simple issues like Wilson at Safety, the types of coverage that Diggs played the best, more snaps for Gallimore as a pass rusher, less as a run defender, LVE more snaps in pass coverage, etc..