Chris Canty now saying Dak has chance at a MVP season

WillieBeamen

WillieBeamen

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Adreme said:
Staying healthy is not exactly something a QB can control. He cant control a blindside hit or force the blockers to do their job. He can just kind of hope everything works out.

Mahomes is the favorite to win MVP this year, as he should be, but if he gets hurt that is likely not on him.
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Y is it when Wentz was the clear MVP in 2017, and got hurt, this fanbase glossed over it and said well he didnt stay healthy and finish the season so it doesnt count?
 

Swagger

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WillieBeamen said:
Y is it when Wentz was the clear MVP in 2017, and got hurt, this fanbase glossed over it and said well he didnt stay healthy and finish the season so it doesnt count?
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Also apparently Wentz is mentally weak because he couldn't finish a play off game after suffering a severe concussion following a cheap shot play. I'm not a Wentz fan boy but the double standards and hypocrisy is just off the scale. So much so that it's hilarious and hard to take those people seriously.

People throw out the term "hate" if posters do not regard Dak Prescott as an elite quarterback (How many All Pro's has he made? How many Superbowls has he won?) or as amazing value following his contract extension yet there's no apparent "hate" from posters stating utter garbage against other players based on assertions without any substantive evidence.

Regardless of whether people agree with my posts, boy do I back them up again and again with valid arguments and/or plain facts. Yet that makes me a hater. It's like a GM wanting a sport's journalist fired for what they write...but hey they have to actually print the final scores! :laugh:
 
ActualCowboysFan

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Swagger said:
Also apparently Wentz is mentally weak because he couldn't finish a play off game after suffering a severe concussion following a cheap shot play. I'm not a Wentz fan boy but the double standards and hypocrisy is just off the scale. So much so that it's hilarious and hard to take those people seriously.

People throw out the term "hate" if posters do not regard Dak Prescott as an elite quarterback (How many All Pro's has he made? How many Superbowls has he won?) or as amazing value following his contract extension yet there's no apparent "hate" from posters stating utter garbage against other players based on assertions without any substantive evidence.

Regardless of whether people agree with my posts, boy do I back them up again and again with valid arguments and/or plain facts. Yet that makes me a hater. It's like a GM wanting a sport's journalist fired for what they write...but hey they have to actually print the final scores! :laugh:
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What was valid about your argument that all QBS need their OL when discussing Rodgers and Mahomes while not including the same grace for Dak?
 

Swagger

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ActualCowboysFan said:
What was valid about your argument that all QBS need their OL when discussing Rodgers and Mahomes while not including the same grace for Dak?
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I include Dak and every quarterback within that. Of course every QB needs their OL. My point was in those particular games given their significance of one being a Superbowl the other an NFC Championship game.

Dak has generally had it very good on the whole over the past 5 years with his line. E.g. even when Smith plays banged up it's still pretty much of a Pro Bowl level which isn't too shabby.
 

Swagger

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Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers have all generally had it very good with their o lines as well. Russell Wilson obviously not so much. It's why most people grade him so highly.
 
Kwyn

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Swagger said:
Ryan Fitzpatrick would be in the MVP conversation with that line
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In 2015, which was his best career year, Fitzpatrick had a terrific offensive line in New York.

They had the second fewest number of sacks in the league with 22 and their adjusted sack rate was third best at 4.1%.

They did not make the playoffs
Fitzpatrick did not win the MVP

That same season, the Cowboys, with Frederick, Smith and Martin had the 17th adjusted sack rating.

so ... you were saying?
 

Swagger

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Kwyn said:
In 2015, which was his best career year, Fitzpatrick had a terrific offensive line in New York.

They had the second fewest number of sacks in the league with 22 and their adjusted sack rate was third best at 4.1%.

They did not make the playoffs
Fitzpatrick did not win the MVP

That same season, the Cowboys, with Frederick, Smith and Martin had the 17th adjusted sack rating.

so ... you were saying?
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My comment was obviously a bit tongue in cheek but the general point was that a solid, competent QB could have driven the bus in 2016 with that O Line, Zeke in the back field, Dez, Beasley and Witten through the air, etc.

It's unfortunate Dalton had to play behind such a banged up line last season as from a purely objective perspective it would have been interesting to see him play behind Smith, Collins and Martin with all those weapons.

That said, I do appreciate your analysis. Credit to someone for putting in the hard yards to support their point.
 
Kwyn

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Swagger said:
MVP doesn't reward empty calories.
Regardless of what you think, team record is often a major consideration when comes to handing out MVP. So whilst you may get a hard-0n over a QB who had 9 TD's and 4 Int's and a load of fumbles with the team being a freak onside kick off being 0-4 from games that he started an finished last season, the people who actually vote wouldn't even batter an eyelid and would award their vote to a player like Aaron Rodgers with 48 TD's and 5 INT's with the team having a 13-3 record.

My outside shouts for MVP would be Herbert (his style suits MVP winning QB's and the Chargers could be legit next season) and Matt Stafford (again his style suits MVP winning QB's, he's finally playing for a good team that will finish with a strong winning record bar catastrophic injuries).
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Thet game you’re ranting about

Dak was 34-47 for 450 yards a rating of 109 and drove the Cowboys to three scores in the final five minutes in a game they trailed 20-0 at the end of the first quarter

Yet, you won’t give him any credit for a comeback

That game is the definition of a QB led comeback.

You don’t want to be called a hater, but the only other explanation that comes to mind is that you are delusional.
 

Swagger

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Kwyn said:
Thet game you’re ranting about

Dak was 34-47 for 450 yards a rating of 109 and drove the Cowboys to three scores in the final five minutes in a game they trailed 20-0 at the end of the first quarter

Yet, you won’t give him any credit for a comeback

That game is the definition of a QB led comeback.

You don’t want to be called a hater, but the only other explanation that comes to mind is that you are delusional.
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I praised him for his performance vs the Falcons in post game threads on here. Yes he had a superb game. But a swallow doesn't make a summer. How many games has he performed like that in over the past 5 years? I remember the Giants game in what from memory was a dead rubber for them. But I genuinely can't remember many others that weren't essentially about the OLine/Zeke. The Steelers game in 2016 a classic example. Prescott's performance in the loss vs the Vikings from 2019 was an excellent performance. One of his top 5 performances where he was let down by his team. I thought he was excellent vs the Bucs in a home game from 2017/ 2018 I think from memory and really that's how he should have been used more often. Not asked to do too much with his arm but mix it up with his legs and along with Zeke they were very hard to play. There is now less tred on the tyres for Zeke and come on Prescott isn't going to be allowed to run about much given he's being paid a premium so teams no longer have to really factor his legs in to their game planning.

People claiming Prescott should be MVP for this and that...other QB's perform to that level to help their teams win several games a season even when the defense/coaching/special teams let them down. Doing it once a season isn't that of an elite QB.
 
Corso

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WillieBeamen said:
Y is it when Wentz was the clear MVP in 2017, and got hurt, this fanbase glossed over it and said well he didnt stay healthy and finish the season so it doesnt count?
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You expected something different?
Good question, psychologically speaking, but it's kind of common sense.

Being a critic of a present-case Dallas Cowboys QB is a dual-edged blade.
Being a critic of oppositional QB's? Fair flippin' game baby!

That's what being a fan is to many and I think that's what truly makes "fanatics" which is essential for the creation and maintaining of any fanbase.
And it's all fair and needed.

I like you as a poster and I'm glad you keep standing your ground.
Whether I agree, or not.
 
ActualCowboysFan

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Swagger said:
I include Dak and every quarterback within that. Of course every QB needs their OL. My point was in those particular games given their significance of one being a Superbowl the other an NFC Championship game.

Dak has generally had it very good on the whole over the past 5 years with his line. E.g. even when Smith plays banged up it's still pretty much of a Pro Bowl level which isn't too shabby.
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You specifically cited his performance in games without both starting tackles while using their absence as an excuse for Arod and Mahomes. The hypocrisy is what always trips you guys up. Your objectivity only runs in one direction. Whatever spin is worse for Dallas
 

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ActualCowboysFan said:
You specifically cited his performance in games without both starting tackles while using their absence as an excuse for Arod and Mahomes. The hypocrisy is what always trips you guys up. Your objectivity only runs in one direction. Whatever spin is worse for Dallas
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Tyron Smith played two of the four games Prescott completed last season.
 

Swagger

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ActualCowboysFan said:
You specifically cited his performance in games without both starting tackles while using their absence as an excuse for Arod and Mahomes. The hypocrisy is what always trips you guys up. Your objectivity only runs in one direction. Whatever spin is worse for Dallas
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The irony is that the hypocrisy is not from me but others...

Regarding Prescott's completed games last season: -
Smith played in 2/4 games and Martin played 4/4 games

In terms of Dalton's completed games, Smith didn't play in any, Martin missed two from memory and got injured very early on in another. There were also injuries to the original back ups whilst Dalton played.

Yet people claimed that Dalton played behind the same line as Prescott when it was considerably worse. That's a plain simple fact.
 

Swagger

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And are people judging Prescott's career off his 2016 season and 4 games last season largely against prevent defense?

How many games has Prescott actually played without the likes of Smith, Martin, Collins, Frederick (obviously the whole season but other than that), O'Leary etc over the past 5 years?

Then compare those o lines over the last 5 years to what Russell Wilson has had to contend with.
 

Swagger

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We can go back and forth all day when in reality neither of us will change our mind so it's pointless. A final point about the Falcons game was the Cowboys having a banged up o line was a huge factor in the first quarter but once the Falcons lost defenders to injury they lost their pass rush and having a banged up o line didn't really matter. The Falcons had pretty good starters in most positions last season but horrible depth and it cost them a load of games including this one.
 
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