Kelvin Joseph vs j horn

Motorola

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ninja said:
We will find out very soon. Last year, Lions' Okudah was the rave. He had it all. Measurables, pedigree, and experience. You name it. He had it. He stunk it up.
Diggs >>>>>Okudah.

Same with Giants' OT Andrew Thomas. Day one starter, ten-year All-Pro. Blah, blah, blah. He stunk it up.
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Here in Atlanta, all eyes will be on the pre-draft marquee prospect- now rookie Falcon Kyle Pitts. Last week I saw a billboard welcoming him to the team and city.
Horn - and Surtain II - were selected by teams that had a higher spot than Dallas since the offseason began...that's just way it goes. We will observe if Joseph's very limited college experience (compared to the other two) is a hindrance as their rookie seasons get underway.
 
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irishline

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AsthmaField said:
I’ll tell you what I do know. If you give me these two scenarios, and ask me which I’d rather have:

1st - Parsons
2nd - Joseph

or

1sr - Horn
2nd - Bolton

I’d take Parsons/Joseph all day long over the other two. Joseph is waaay closer to Horn than Bolton is to Parsons, who is just a physical marvel.
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Great post, but there is one thing to add. If we took Horn we would have done it without a trade down so we would not have had that extra third, so really the top part should be:

1st - Parsons
2nd - Joseph
3rd - Golston

Not sure what Golson will end up being, but we would not have had the 84th pick if Horn was there at 10 and we took him.
 
MyFairLady

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Mr_C said:
Anyone who knocks a player for not playing in a near meaningless bowl game is a college football fan in denial.

It’s simply the case of risk vs reward.
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Agree 100%. With the money involved now playing in meaningless games is madness.
 
DFWJC

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I had a faster 40 time (and probably better vertical) than both Emmitt and Irvin
HOF bound baby!

Seriously though, joking aside, I do think if he keeps his head in the game, Joseph has legit upside.

And Horn wasn't there at 10 anyway.
 
TheMarathonContinues

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So the situation goes....give me Horn over him any day of the week. Don’t let anyone fool you Horn is much more ready to start now and has a higher ceiling.

But if anyone wants to look at the bright side of things....had we got Horn with the first pick we don’t get someone as good as Parsons with the second. Hell I’m scared to even think what we would’ve done in the 2nd round.

So I’ll say Parsons and Joseph>>Horn and whatever we would’ve got in the 2nd round.
 
DFWJC

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Twisted Dawg said:
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the board's opinion of Joseph vs Asante Samuels?
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This is probably the more legit question, and one that could come up a lot in the future.
Its not theoretical. We for sure had a choice between the two at the same draft spot.
 
Zekeats

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Honestly after seeing where we went with the later taller cb picks I wish the safety got to our pick. Diggs will hold a spot down allowing one spot open for 3 young early draft picks
 
ItzKelz

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Draft status means nothing at this point. Dont care about how other corners are doing for other teams. What is BMF going to do for us? How does he look against Amari, CeeDee and Gallup? Does he make us a better defense?
 
Western

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The most recent 2020 season:
Joseph recorded 25 total tackles, four interceptions, and a defensive touchdown.
Horn recorded 16 total tackles, & two interceptions.

Joseph's 2020 season surpasses any of Horn's individual season (2018-2020).
Joseph maybe raw, but his ceiling as a play-maker is higher than Horn's.

For a 2nd round pick, the value of Joseph (combined with the Parsons selection in the 1st round), is a substantial benefit to the Cowboys defense.
 
Creeper

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3rdEyewarrior said:
How gib is the gap really? Joseph. Has a wingspan of 77 1/8 Horn 77 1/4. Arm length is close as well, Horn has a higher vertical but Joseph has more speed. Horn 6’0 & change. Joseph 5’11 1/2z you can improve vertical if you work on it. They’re both young. With potential. I wanted Horn but I’m happy with Joseph. What are your thoughts?
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I think this comparison is pointless because Horn was gone before Dallas had a chance to pick him. I think Joseph was the best CB prospect at 44, and I think he will be a lot better than many of the pundits say. The ? about him is whether or not his head is 100% into football or if his other career is more important. It is a valid question but one I think the Cowboys brain trust could figure out after talking to him. He has size and speed, and the speed thing is something Dallas really needed.

The Choice was between Joseph and Assante Samuel. After Samuel was taken at 47 no other CB was taken until the 3rd round. I like Assante Samuel but it is clear the Cowboys when for size and speed over genetics.
 
DogFace

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Jarntt said:
I have no issue with Joseph and have no concerns about his dedication to Football until I hear about issues at the NFL level, but in general I'm not sure my ideal football player looks at it the way you described. There are guys who love football and buy into the team aspect and guys who don't. I'm not saying Joseph falls into the latter group, but I am saying that all else remaining equal, I want guys in the former category.
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Good point
 
ChronicCowboy

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Not a lot of separation between the two physically. I think most people worry about Kelvin between the ears.
 
xwalker

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3rdEyewarrior said:
How gib is the gap really? Joseph. Has a wingspan of 77 1/8 Horn 77 1/4. Arm length is close as well, Horn has a higher vertical but Joseph has more speed. Horn 6’0 & change. Joseph 5’11 1/2z you can improve vertical if you work on it. They’re both young. With potential. I wanted Horn but I’m happy with Joseph. What are your thoughts?
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Plankton said:
How gib? One guy started 29 games, and the other started 9. One guy stayed with one program for his entire career, and didn't have a whiff of baggage. The other guy was suspended for a bowl game by a university that kept distinguished men such as Derrius Guice eligible, and was asked to leave by his other program. One guy is viewed as being an alpha dog with leadership potential. The other guy has questions about his focus on his football career.

Other than that, Jaycee Horn and Kelvin Joseph are the same guy.
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If the question is "How does Joseph compare to Horn purely based on the on-field evaluations and physical ability?", then it is an interesting discussion.
- Joseph played 15 total college games and Horn played 30.
- How did they compare on the field after each had played 15 games?

The other way to ask the question would be "What are the expectations for Joseph as compared to Horn if Joseph does not exhibit any character related issues?"
 
xwalker

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AsthmaField said:
I like Horn a little better because he has more experience playing. He made big strides in his technique from 2019 to 2020. Joseph really only has 1 year that he’s played and we have yet to see his big technique improvement… though that should come, just already in the NFL.

Physically speaking, there isn’t much separating the two, IMO. Horn is a little more physical and aggressive while Joseph just looked more smooth and athletic in coverage. Honestly, I think Joseph is a little physically superior of the two. He has near ideal corner athleticism.

So would I draft Joseph over Horn, straight up? No, I wouldn’t. Horn is very good physically and has already shown great improvement while it is a projection with Joseph. Also, Horn was never suspended from his team and then transferred. So some questions that are there for Joseph simply aren’t there for Horn.

You’d have to take Horn over Joseph at this point.

However, one of the things that people who didn’t like the Joseph pick say is that he quit on two teams. One of course, is LSU. After being suspended he transferred. The second they say is that near the end of Kentucky’s 2020 season Joseph opted out of the last game to get ready for the NFL. So, he quit on two teams.

Horn though did the same thing as the second one. He opted out of the last couple of South Carolina games in 2020 to focus on getting ready for the draft. If you knock Joseph for that, you got to knock Horn as well.

Overall physically though, I think that Joseph is a tad better. Quicker, smoother footwork, a little more speed and quickness, and better hands catching the ball.

As I mentioned above, Horn made a lot of progress between his 2019 and 2020 seasons. If Joseph makes the same progress technically between his first season at Kentucky and his second season in Dallas, then Joseph could absolutely be the better player of the two by the end of this season. His ceiling is a little higher and his current play has more growth room than Horn’s who is more polished.

I’ll tell you what I do know. If you give me these two scenarios, and ask me which I’d rather have:

1st - Parsons
2nd - Joseph

or

1sr - Horn
2nd - Bolton

I’d take Parsons/Joseph all day long over the other two. Joseph is waaay closer to Horn than Bolton is to Parsons, who is just a physical marvel.
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With regards to draft prospects I didn't think either Horn or Surtain were on the same level as many CBs drafted top 10 over the years.

Honestly I had them graded similar to how I had Diggs graded in 2020.

Horn/Surtain were drafted ahead of Parsons because CB has more position value than off-ball LB.
- Parsons was the better prospect if position was not considered.
 
DFWJC

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The way the draft fell, we’re not even sure there was an option to trade up for Horn.

at 7, the Lions stayed put and could believe Sewell fell to them

at 8, the Panthers stayed put and took Horn

Miami already traded to 6 and wanted a WR badly
 
JBond

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ItzKelz said:
Draft status means nothing at this point. Dont care about how other corners are doing for other teams. What is BMF going to do for us? How does he look against Amari, CeeDee and Gallup? Does he make us a better defense?
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The fun thing is, with an excellent group of WR's and a good QB, these kids are going to learn quickly what it takes to be a solid player very quickly. Same for Parsons going against a healthy O-line in training camp.

Hope all of them get hit in the mouth and come back stronger as a result.
 
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