The PGA needed this today

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
Phil Mickelson has been and still is one of the most popular players ever. His win today harkens back 2 decades to a time when golf was largely defined by Tiger vs. Phil and Arnie vs. Jack before that. Todays players are very good, but there there are no real one on one rivalies.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Phil is amazing. I think this win should serve as inspiration to a lot of guys on the PGA tour who don't work as hard as they should......... i'm talking to you Rickie Fowler and Rory McIlroy. To win a major at 50 is just a crazy achievement.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Phil Mickelson has been and still is one of the most popular players ever. His win today harkens back 2 decades to a time when golf was largely defined by Tiger vs. Phil and Arnie vs. Jack before that. Todays players are very good, but there there are no real one on one rivalies.

What separates Phil and Tiger is consistency. Guys like Speith or Henrik Stenson were great for a time, but they could only maintain it for a year or 2. Then they fell back to the pack and haven't been able to get to that level again. Tiger and Phil had times in their careers where they weren't playing well, but they always found a way to get back to that high level of play. I'm not sure its a work ethic or some intangible mental quality that can't be quantified.
 

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
What separates Phil and Tiger is consistency. Guys like Speith or Henrik Stenson were great for a time, but they could only maintain it for a year or 2. Then they fell back to the pack and haven't been able to get to that level again. Tiger and Phil had times in their careers where they weren't playing well, but they always found a way to get back to that high level of play. I'm not sure its a work ethic or some intangible mental quality that can't be quantified.
Agree. The last decade has brought several young, new phenoms that were anointed as the next dominant player. McElroy first, then Spieth, now Keopka. But, like you say, they dominate for a year or 2, but thats it. But more so, there aren’t 2 dominant at the same time.

I think it’s as much about the enormous amount of money won as anything. Human nature is most people become more complacent once they’ve attained a certain financial level. That’s why I always wanted my sales people to be big spenders.

But it’s also that golf is such a mental game. Losing begats shrinking confidence which is tough to reverse.

Frankly, I was surprised Phil won yesterday after struggling on Saturday on the back and going 3 over. And then Sunday starting off Sunday bogey with Keopka birdieing. Tremendous effort to hold it together for the next 17 holes, especially with that wind.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Agree. The last decade has brought several young, new phenoms that were anointed as the next dominant player. McElroy first, then Spieth, now Keopka. But, like you say, they dominate for a year or 2, but thats it. But more so, there aren’t 2 dominant at the same time.

I think it’s as much about the enormous amount of money won as anything. Human nature is most people become more complacent once they’ve attained a certain financial level. That’s why I always wanted my sales people to be big spenders.

But it’s also that golf is such a mental game. Losing begats shrinking confidence which is tough to reverse.

Frankly, I was surprised Phil won yesterday after struggling on Saturday on the back and going 3 over. And then Sunday starting off Sunday bogey with Keopka birdieing. Tremendous effort to hold it together for the next 17 holes, especially with that wind.

I honestly think Phil and Tiger are just more competitive and mentally tough. They truly enjoy competition and thrive on winning. Phil and Tiger make ridiculous amounts of money on rep alone. Phil makes 40-50M a year just in endorsements and appearance fees. The winning purse isn't driving them.

These other guys like Rory, Spieth, and DJ just seem comfortable doing what they are doing. We don't see the uber competitive spirit. The closest guy is Koepka. He hates losing and taking a back seat. Once he's healthy, I think he going to win a lot of majors.
 

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
I honestly think Phil and Tiger are just more competitive and mentally tough. They truly enjoy competition and thrive on winning. Phil and Tiger make ridiculous amounts of money on rep alone. Phil makes 40-50M a year just in endorsements and appearance fees. The winning purse isn't driving them.

These other guys like Rory, Spieth, and DJ just seem comfortable doing what they are doing. We don't see the uber competitive spirit. The closest guy is Koepka. He hates losing and taking a back seat. Once he's healthy, I think he going to win a lot of majors.
True. I don’t think there’s ever been as driven a player as Tiger. Certainly he wanted to make money, but his goal was being the best ever by eclipsing Jack’s records. I don’t think Phil has had that same goal, but Tiger brought out the uber competitiveness in Phil. Unfortunately for him, Tiger was simply better.

I’ve been a Phil fan from early on. He always exhibits respect and class, something Tiger didn’t early in his career. I’d love to see Phil complete the career grand slam, but I don’t see that happening now. His best chance was Winged Foot in 06.

I thought Spieth had the makings to be this generation’s dominant player. He seemed to be driven by family, especially his Down’s Syndrome sibling. And maybe he is, but doesn’t have the mental toughness to overcome adversity.
 

T-RO

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,824
Reaction score
16,341
Epic calves, hellacious seeds, trick shots that he actually uses under pressure in tournaments, the playful trash-talking...Phil is Phun.

This weekend Phil was 101% thrill. 50!

I'll put him beside Spieth as one of my guys.
 

Turk

Well-Known Member
Messages
685
Reaction score
935
It is rare you have a real intense one on one rivalry. The closest I can think of was Arnie vs Jack but Arnie was over the hill by the time the rivalry really heated up.

Sad fact is that the next so called immortal golfer shows up every 3-5 years and lasts about as long. Those that stay at the top for 10 years or more are the real greats.
 

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
Epic calves, hellacious seeds, trick shots that he actually uses under pressure in tournaments, the playful trash-talking...Phil is Phun.

This weekend Phil was 101% thrill. 50!

I'll put him beside Spieth as one of my guys.
I saw Phil at the Nelson practicing before the tournament. He was really just playing around, but one shot he did was classic Phil. He hit his lob wedge facing away from his target and curved the ball back over his head towards the target. The crowd loved it.
 

T-RO

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,824
Reaction score
16,341
There are a lot of superb golfers on the tour. It's impossible to dominate with such a tough field and in such a fickle sport. You get some bad bounces and you don't score. You get scheduled for the afternoon when the wind is howling as opposed to the morning when it's calmer and the greens moister...and you don't score. You get paired with the guy who annoys the hell out of you and you don't score.

A sudden gust of wind can grab a ball, headed for easy-birdie putt range, and blow it into the water.

The two greatest golfers in the world currently...Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson... didn't even make the cut this weekend. The third highest ranked golfer, John Rahm was so disheartened that he said, "I don't want to be here". These kind of vagaries are 'par for the course' in golf.

Tiger was in another league. He was utterly elite in all aspects of the game and he had unholy confidence in himself. Tiger has also been a perpetual mess and now will find it difficult to walk from Point A to Point B. Story from Greek mythology I suppose.
 
Last edited:

John813

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,109
Reaction score
33,858
I think we have seen a lot of guys just get complacent after tasting a bit of success/money/fame and there is a lot of competition so if they aren't giving it their all then they will be lapped.

The dedication we saw from Tiger(big part to his dad) was truly something that happens once in a blue moon. His peak was eons compared to these newer guys who ge hailed the next big one then poof.

I live in S Florida(Jupiter) where there's a golf course every 2 miles and (some)parents with ** money that get their kids into golf at early ages. It's a hot ground for young golfers here.
Seems like every few years I read a story about some 15-16 year old golfer from here that has real potential.
 
Last edited:

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
True. I don’t think there’s ever been as driven a player as Tiger. Certainly he wanted to make money, but his goal was being the best ever by eclipsing Jack’s records. I don’t think Phil has had that same goal, but Tiger brought out the uber competitiveness in Phil. Unfortunately for him, Tiger was simply better.

I’ve been a Phil fan from early on. He always exhibits respect and class, something Tiger didn’t early in his career. I’d love to see Phil complete the career grand slam, but I don’t see that happening now. His best chance was Winged Foot in 06.

I thought Spieth had the makings to be this generation’s dominant player. He seemed to be driven by family, especially his Down’s Syndrome sibling. And maybe he is, but doesn’t have the mental toughness to overcome adversity.

Well, I think Phil's toughness is just relative to most of todays younger generation of golfers. Nobody was tougher and more competitive than Tiger. Spieth has a fiery temper and competitive spirit. I just don't think he works as hard on his game as Phil and Tiger. What Phil did remaking his body at age 50 and hitting 350 yard drives is unprecedented for a pro golfer. He's always had a great short game. I think he's literally just broadened the vision of whats possible for every guy on the PGA tour.

Check this out https://www.golfdigest.com/story/brooks-koepka-bryson-dechambeau-pga-championship-video. Now thats a budding rivalry. lol
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
There are a lot of superb golfers on the tour. It's impossible to dominate with such a tough field and in such a fickle sport. You get some bad bounces and you don't score. You get scheduled for the afternoon when the wind is howling as opposed to the morning when it's calmer and the greens moister...and you don't score. You get paired with the guy who annoys the hell out of you and you don't score.

A sudden gust of wind can grab a ball, headed for easy-birdie putt range, and blow it into the water.

The two greatest golfers in the world currently...Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson... didn't even make the cut this weekend. The third highest ranked golfer, John Rahm was so disheartened that he said, "I don't want to be here". These kind of vagaries are 'par for the course' in golf.

Tiger was in another league. He was utterly elite in all aspects of the game and he had unholy confidence in himself. Tiger has also been a perpetual mess and now will find it difficult to walk from Point A to Point B. Story from Greek mythology I suppose.

At the pro level, putting is often what separates the great golfers. Koepka made nothing. He would have won the tournement by 5 shots if he had putted just average. Meanwhile Phil chips one in from the sand. Thats just how it goes some weeks. The average fan just has no idea how good these PGA pros are. Just to get a PGA tour card is an amazing accomplishment in itself. ........... These courses aren't the one's we play on at the local golf club. They are wayyyy more difficult. If you shoot 80 on your home course, you would probably shoot about 120 on a course set up for a PGA tournament. ..... let alone a major.
 

Ranched

"We Are Penn State"
Messages
34,885
Reaction score
84,323
I love ole Lefty. At age 50, he became the oldest golfer to win a major. While every sport is different, Lefy is 15 years older than Jordan was when His Airness won his final NBA title. Lefty is also seven years older than Brady, who won his seventh Super Bowl in February.

Lefty is so advanced in the years that he’s eligible for full membership with the American Association of Retired Persons. He’s also a decade older than is required to sue under the federal Age Discrimination in Employment Act. o_O
 

TheCoolFan

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,865
Reaction score
9,432
Phil deserves this one for his legacy. He will always be viewed in Tiger's shadow because their careers overlapped but he finally did something that will be tough for anyone, even Tiger, to top.

However, let's not act like Phil didn't have his struggles in his younger days too. I don't think it's fair to write off this current group of golfers as "not being mentally tough enough" when Phil had a lot of the same question marks too. Remember, he didn't win his first major until age 34, including some memorable meltdowns. Spieth, Rory, Koepka already have 3 majors before that age and there's a big crop of up-and-comers who will be relevant for the next 10+ years and some already have 1 major too (Justin Thomas, Morikawa, Bryson).

The PGA is in a great place right now, it will be as competitive as it has ever been...which is what makes this Phil win such a big achievement. There is no one guy dominating like Tiger in the 90s and 00s but instead, there is a group of about 10-15 players who could easily win multiple majors in their careers.
 

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
These courses aren't the one's we play on at the local golf club. They are wayyyy more difficult. If you shoot 80 on your home course, you would probably shoot about 120 on a course set up for a PGA tournament. ..... let alone a major
I was in Hawaii on business some 20 years ago and had an opportunity to play Ko’olau Golf Club on Oahu. At the time, it was billed as the toughest course in the US per slope by the USGA. I think they understated it! I stopped counting strokes at 120 midway through the back 9 and decided to just focus in the surrounding beauty and wild mongooses. That’s as close as I’ve ever come to playing a PGA setup course.
 

T-RO

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,824
Reaction score
16,341
I think we have seen a lot of guys just get complacent after tasting a bit of success/money/fame and there is a lot of competition so if they aren't giving it their all then they will be lapped.

I absolutely don't think anyone who knows Rory or Jordan or Justin would say they are complacent. Bryson is absolutely obsessed.

It is certainly said that Koepka doesn't practice his craft as much as others.
 

John813

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,109
Reaction score
33,858
I absolutely don't think anyone who knows Rory or Jordan or Justin would say they are complacent. Bryson is absolutely obsessed.

It is certainly said that Koepka doesn't practice his craft as much as others.

It was a general comment, but more directed to Rickie Fowler.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
I watched Jack when he was 46 winning the Masters and that was a heck of an accomplishment, seeing Phil win the PGA at 50 (almost 51) was a thing of beauty.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,076
Reaction score
24,789
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I was in Hawaii on business some 20 years ago and had an opportunity to play Ko’olau Golf Club on Oahu. At the time, it was billed as the toughest course in the US per slope by the USGA. I think they understated it! I stopped counting strokes at 120 midway through the back 9 and decided to just focus in the surrounding beauty and wild mongooses. That’s as close as I’ve ever come to playing a PGA setup course.


I've never heard of it but that does not sound like fun. :laugh:
 
Top