Modern day defense

Future · Jun 8, 2021

Cowboyny said:
Chicago had way better players. Tillman for example, was a turnover machine, Cowboys never had such a player when Marinelli was here.

IT WAS 11 YEARS AGO. Turnovers as a whole are down by something like a third since then, because quarterbacks are better and passing offenses are smaller, and the rules changed. It's irrelevant. There's no Peanut Tillman in the league right now because they can't exist.

And playing cover 2 gives you opportunities to make plays on the ball and take risks. Same thing Ronde Barber did. Good players, but put in position to create turnovers by the scheme. Throw either of them in off man or cover 3 and it's a very different story.

Turnovers are a product of guessing right and risking getting beat or offensive mistakes. There's no such thing as a conservative player or scheme that causes turnovers. Can't exist in today's NFL.

Future · Jun 8, 2021

Aerolithe_Lion said:
Worked for the ‘09 Saints

What worked for the 09 Saints was playing with a lead.

And it's too long ago to matter anyway.

Cowboyny · Jun 8, 2021

Future said:
IT WAS 11 YEARS AGO. Turnovers as a whole are down by something like a third since then, because quarterbacks are better and passing offenses are smaller, and the rules changed. It's irrelevant. There's no Peanut Tillman in the league right now because they can't exist.

And playing cover 2 gives you opportunities to make plays on the ball and take risks. Same thing Ronde Barber did. Good players, but put in position to create turnovers by the scheme. Throw either of them in off man or cover 3 and it's a very different story.

Turnovers are a product of guessing right and risking getting beat or offensive mistakes. There's no such thing as a conservative player or scheme that causes turnovers. Can't exist in today's NFL.

Tillman was excellent at stripping the football, that skill works in any era.

CATCH17 · Jun 8, 2021

Bend don't break, make offenses work for their points by not giving up big plays, rush the QB, hope turnovers find you.

That's the modern day NFL gameplan. The league doesn't want you playing good defense and the Bucs just won the Superbowl with their DL playing good and their coverages backed off 25 yards.

Future · Jun 8, 2021

Cowboyny said:
Tillman was excellent at stripping the football, that skill works in any era.

Ok fine. But that's entirely independent of any scheme or ideology, so it's irrelevant to the point.

Aerolithe_Lion · Jun 8, 2021

Future said:
What worked for the 09 Saints was playing with a lead.

And it's too long ago to matter anyway.

Dallas should be playing with a lead more often than not this year

Bullflop · Jun 8, 2021

daboyzruleperiod said:
IF Quinn can get this defense clicking on 3 cylinders, it will make a big difference. Going to be tough doing so in his first season.

Yep, it's fair to say he'll be challenged to see his defense click with so many new defenders comprising the lineup. I think he's a capable DC who will find the going getting better each week during a long 2021 season. The players have "bought into" his ways, so that'll help a lot.

erod · Jun 8, 2021

Doesn't matter who your coach is if your players suck, don't care, can't stay healthy, or can't stay off suspension.

Nolan was bad, but he didn't have an offseason, and he was working with an island of misfit toys.

Quinn has the time he needs and a few more parts to work with.

We'll see.

quickccc · Jun 8, 2021

Future said:
These players don't exist in the NFL without risking giving up a big play.

To "create" an interception, you have to jump a route. If you're wrong, you give up a big play. If you choose to prevent a big play, you are not going to jump routes because it leaves you susceptible to double moves and big plays. It doesn't matter who the player is.

Whether attack blitz or bend don’t break, ...man or zone, you still have to have those kind of players that are ball hawks that have a knack for jumping routes or play on the ball in air to make those kind

.. as Ip Man would say “ it’s not about style, it’s about You “

quickccc · Jun 8, 2021

Cowboyny said:
The Seattle coaching tree does. Quinn will make some adjustments to his scheme, but just like Marinelli his defense's rank near the bottom in blitzes called.

When it comes to blitzing- I’m more of an advocate of How you scheme and design a blitz.. ..vs how many times you blitz.

I’d like to look into that with Seattle’s past defenses and DC’s, … if they implied the bend but don’t break scheme;
but not matter what it’s always going to come back to Carroll’s preferences and philosophy and how he wants his DC’s to take into what he wants.

When Kris Richard was Seattle’s DC, he was reportedly oust fired by Carroll because he actually blitzed too much for Carroll’s liking.
And mind you that Richard had players such as Wagner, Wright, Chancellor

But here’s the thing about attack oriented defenses, .. should you go blitz crazy and you still cannot get there, .it makes your defense that much vulnerable to the back half and that’s
when big plays could likely go against you ,.. especially if there’s no reliable umbrella or personnel in front of the plays, as a last line of defense.

Cowboyny · Jun 8, 2021

quickccc said:
When it comes to blitzing- I’m more of an advocate of How you scheme and design a blitz.. ..vs how many times you blitz.

I’d like to look into that with Seattle’s past defenses and DC’s, … if they implied the bend but don’t break scheme;
but not matter what it’s always going to come back to Carroll’s preferences and philosophy and how he wants his DC’s to take into what he wants.

When Kris Richard was Seattle’s DC, he was reportedly oust fired by Carroll because he actually blitzed too much for Carroll’s liking.
And mind you that Richard had players such as Wagner, Wright, Chancellor

But here’s the thing about attack oriented defenses, .. should you go blitz crazy and you still cannot get there, .it makes your defense that much vulnerable to the back half and that’s
when big plays could likely go against you ,.. especially if there’s no reliable umbrella or personnel in front of the plays, as a last line of defense.

I don't think we are going to see a Richard, blitz heavy type of system. Quinn wants to run a zone coverage scheme and force QB's to throw it into tight windows. With all that length, the hope is to get their hands on a lot of footballs. Up front we are going to see Tank/Gregory be our Bennett/Avril, where Parsons is going to be a hybrid Wagner/Irvin type of player yr 1.

buybuydandavis · Jun 8, 2021

Cowboyny said:
If the defense can return to that bend, don't break scheme, be more success on the early downs, the turnovers should come. With a team losing so many close games recently, that could flip the script.

Ag

Marinelli wanted to sit back and wait for the offense to make mistakes. Against bad offenses, that will get you wins. Against good offenses, that will get you smoked. You have to risk breaking to have a chance to break a good offense. It's basic game theory. Risk aversion kills you. Predictability kills you. The more the offense can bound your likely actions, the easier it is for them to beat you.

Seven · Jun 8, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Bend don't break, make offenses work for their points by not giving up big plays, rush the QB, hope turnovers find you.

That's the modern day NFL gameplan. The league doesn't want you playing good defense and the Bucs just won the Superbowl with their DL playing good and their coverages backed off 25 yards.

DL playing like the chiefs were missing TWO tackles.

25 yards off the LOS?!?

Whirlwin · Jun 8, 2021

Doomsday101 said:
Been saying the same thing since last season. The inability to stop the run had to be addressed in doing so defense puts offense in poor down and distance situations and that allows defense to be more aggressive. Yards I don't care about, points allowed and turnovers are the key for this defense and this team to have a chance to compete for a championship.

I’ve been saying it for 10 seasons.

Whirlwin · Jun 8, 2021

fivetwos said:
Good point.

I'm interested in the response on that one.

there shouldn’t be any response is common knowledge . Or at least it should be

CyberB0b · Jun 8, 2021

Stopping the run is a myth in the modern NFL.

CATCH17 · Jun 8, 2021

CyberB0b said:
Stopping the run is a myth in the modern NFL.

Cowboyszone fans threw a fit when I mentioned that this offseason.

People still think it’s important lol.

They also look at everything anecdotaly.. They’ll tell you about that 1 game back 2 years ago or tell you something about the 90s and how that 1 game applies to every game.

Whirlwin · Jun 8, 2021

CATCH17 said:
Cowboyszone fans threw a fit when I mentioned that this offseason.

People still think it’s important lol.

They also look at everything anecdotaly.. They’ll tell you about that 1 game back 2 years ago or tell you something about the 90s and how that 1 game applies to every game.

Stopping the run. It’s the key to winning a championship

Typhus · Jun 8, 2021

Im good with stopping the run
Slowing down 3rd and 13 completions
If only those two objectives are met, we at least win our pitiful. sorry *** division

CATCH17 · Jun 9, 2021

Whirlwin said:
Stopping the run. It’s the key to winning a championship

Yeah in like 1992.

The key in today’s NFL is shutting down an elite QB and everytime they hand it off you should celebrate.

Modern day defense

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