Leveon Bell

Flamma said:

I think he was offered 5 years 75 million. Turned it down because the only guarantee was the 10 million dollar signing bonus. I think I got the right guy. If not I apologize. So base salary and signing bonus would have put him at around 20 mil. even if they just kept him for a year.

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When the Steelers eventually made an opening bid well below what Bell was looking for, he told Bakari to counter by asking for $17 million per season. In the end, Bell hoped, they’d end up at his $15 million benchmark.
Pittsburgh’s final offer, Bell says, fell short: five years, $70 million—$14 million per, with the only fully guaranteed money being a $10 million signing bonus. (The Steelers have a policy of not offering future guarantees in veteran deals.) But it also included $33 million paid out over the first two seasons, and Pittsburgh has never cut a player one year into a contract that lucrative.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/20/leveon-bell-i-was-so-close-signing-steelers-final-contract-offer

Supposedly Bell wanted his AAV to be 15. Pitt offered 14. So he left to go to the Jets and ruined a promising career. Who knows how the contract had guaranteed base salary set up. I assume the 33 over first two years was heavily guaranteed. Seen that 33mil pop up a lot.

John813 said:

Supposedly Bell wanted his AAV to be 15. Pitt offered 14.

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For him not to take the 14 to me was just plain dumb. The Steelers have been in the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years. The Jets? ZERO.

What can he not buy for $14 million a year that he can for $15 million? A bigger house? A fancier yacht? Become financially secure instead of not?

Just doesn't make sense to me...

LACowboysFan1 said:

For him not to take the 14 to me was just plain dumb. The Steelers have been in the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years. The Jets? ZERO.

What can he not buy for $14 million a year that he can for $15 million? A bigger house? A fancier yacht? Become financially secure instead of not?

Just doesn't make sense to me...

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And even then the AAV is just a fancy number that has few strings attached to it once guarantees start expiring. The main numbers are signing bonus, total guaranteed and payout of guarantees.

AAV doesn't give you long term security. Your play and dead cap does lol.

With the Steelers they restructure deals as needed as long as the player is performing and Bell could/would of been restructured a few times to drop his cap hit and he would of gotten more up front bonuses and the security of a prorated bonus brings.

IMO if he was truly after AAV he got bad advice or was too proud to think clearly.

John813 said:

When the Steelers eventually made an opening bid well below what Bell was looking for, he told Bakari to counter by asking for $17 million per season. In the end, Bell hoped, they’d end up at his $15 million benchmark.
Pittsburgh’s final offer, Bell says, fell short: five years, $70 million—$14 million per, with the only fully guaranteed money being a $10 million signing bonus. (The Steelers have a policy of not offering future guarantees in veteran deals.) But it also included $33 million paid out over the first two seasons, and Pittsburgh has never cut a player one year into a contract that lucrative.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/20/leveon-bell-i-was-so-close-signing-steelers-final-contract-offer

Supposedly Bell wanted his AAV to be 15. Pitt offered 14. So he left to go to the Jets and ruined a promising career. Who knows how the contract had guaranteed base salary set up. I assume the 33 over first two years was heavily guaranteed. Seen that 33mil pop up a lot.

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Makes Bell look even dumber.

Despite what so many are claiming, greed is not good.

The Steelers have shown everyone how you handle a running back that is getting too expensive.

Also, he has been run out of every team he has been on. At what point do you look at yourself and say “maybe it’s me?”

kskboys said:

That's a saying the people keep repeating that simply isn't true.

CLEV doesn't make the playoffs w/o Chubb/Hunt.

Fournette was a key cog in the playoffs for TB.

And once again, Belly is laughing at you guys. He's taking RB's high in the draft and was winning super bowls while the rest of the NFL repeated how invaluable RB's are. He did the opposite w/ CB's, having teams spend valuable resources on them while Belly gets his pick of the big guy FA's and wins super bowls with them.

RB's are a dime a dozen until you really need one to run out the clock or pound the ball into the end zone, and then suddenly they're the most valuable player on the field!!!!!!!!!!!!

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But a handful of players outperformed Chubb, Hunt, and Fournette. Regardless of how well they played, there were a number of players who did similar or better. That's not "dime a dozen"?

Henry, Cook, Taylor, Jones, Montgomery, Robinson. Josh Jacobs had similar yardage and TDs to Chubb, albeit he had a lower average. Alvin Kamara had a good year, as did Melvin Gordon, Kenyan Drake.

I don't think anyone is discounting the contribution of the players you listed, but it's hard to imagine more productive (or equally productive) players would have done any worse in Cleveland. If that's the case, we're likely talking about being able to insert one of dozen or more players and the outcomes for Cleveland and Tampa wouldn't change. That doesn't even count guys who are possible backups that could produce on an equal level if only they were given the chance.

Any time you can insert maybe half the league's starting player into a spot and not see a falloff, "dime a dozen" seems pretty appropriate. Currently, Henry and Cook are probably the only RBs who are not interchangeable. I'd likely throw Kamara in there as well.

As for NE, Bill has spent considerably more 1st and 2nd round picks on DBs than he has on RBs. 3 RBs in the first 2 rounds, and 11 DBs in the first 2 rounds.

Lutonio said:

The Steelers have shown everyone how you handle a running back that is getting too expensive.

Also, he has been run out of every team he has been on. At what point do you look at yourself and say “maybe it’s me?”

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Well, if you're a nutcase like Bell the answer would be: "never"

LACowboysFan1 said:

For him not to take the 14 to me was just plain dumb. The Steelers have been in the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years. The Jets? ZERO.

What can he not buy for $14 million a year that he can for $15 million? A bigger house? A fancier yacht? Become financially secure instead of not?

Just doesn't make sense to me...

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Well, he was looking to support his ego. That extra $1M/year apparently did that. Good job trading money for ego. At least he can leave the league knowing he owned the Steelers.

Hoofbite said:

But a handful of players outperformed Chubb, Hunt, and Fournette. Regardless of how well they played, there were a number of players who did similar or better. That's not "dime a dozen"?

Henry, Cook, Taylor, Jones, Montgomery, Robinson. Josh Jacobs had similar yardage and TDs to Chubb, albeit he had a lower average. Alvin Kamara had a good year, as did Melvin Gordon, Kenyan Drake.

I don't think anyone is discounting the contribution of the players you listed, but it's hard to imagine more productive (or equally productive) players would have done any worse in Cleveland. If that's the case, we're likely talking about being able to insert one of dozen or more players and the outcomes for Cleveland and Tampa wouldn't change. That doesn't even count guys who are possible backups that could produce on an equal level if only they were given the chance.

Any time you can insert maybe half the league's starting player into a spot and not see a falloff, "dime a dozen" seems pretty appropriate. Currently, Henry and Cook are probably the only RBs who are not interchangeable. I'd likely throw Kamara in there as well.

As for NE, Bill has spent considerably more 1st and 2nd round picks on DBs than he has on RBs. 3 RBs in the first 2 rounds, and 11 DBs in the first 2 rounds.

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The ones you listed are top tier starters.

A dozen? Think about that. You can say that for almost any position. There often isn't much difference between players in the top 10 or 12.

You might want to take some time and watch Chubb if you get a chance. I think he may also be in your list of the interchangeable 3 or 4.

Bolded: That pretty much shoots the dime a dozen theory out of the water!!!!!

Hoofbite said:

Well, he was looking to support his ego. That extra $1M/year apparently did that. Good job trading money for ego. At least he can leave the league knowing he owned the Steelers.

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Yeah and good luck, there's another 29 teams he can tick off.

LACowboysFan1 said:

Yeah and good luck, there's another 29 teams he can tick off.

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Oh, sure. They just won't pay him anything close to $14M/year. At least they shouldn't. Cash-for-ego is a lose-lose situation.

kskboys said:

The ones you listed are top tier starters.

A dozen? Think about that. You can say that for almost any position. There often isn't much difference between players in the top 10 or 12.

You might want to take some time and watch Chubb if you get a chance. I think he may also be in your list of the interchangeable 3 or 4.

Bolded: That pretty much shoots the dime a dozen theory out of the water!!!!!

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You probably can say that about any position, but most other positions have multiple starters. WR, CB, DL, OL, TE. If you don't think 12-16 of 32 is more significant than 12-16 of 64, I don't know what to tell you. Guess it would be too much to ask you to explain why RBs are rarely drafted highly anymore.

I'm not discounting the running game because a solid running game helps. I'm just saying that you can get adequate production from a RB far easier than you can from almost any position.

LACowboysFan1 said:

For him not to take the 14 to me was just plain dumb. The Steelers have been in the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years. The Jets? ZERO.

What can he not buy for $14 million a year that he can for $15 million? A bigger house? A fancier yacht? Become financially secure instead of not?

Just doesn't make sense to me...

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I was all in on Bell holding out for as much money as possible.
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because it caused much strife in the stealer organization

Hoofbite said:

You probably can say that about any position, but most other positions have multiple starters. WR, CB, DL, OL, TE. If you don't think 12-16 of 32 is more significant than 12-16 of 64, I don't know what to tell you. Guess it would be too much to ask you to explain why RBs are rarely drafted highly anymore.

I'm not discounting the running game because a solid running game helps. I'm just saying that you can get adequate production from a RB far easier than you can from almost any position.

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There are more drafted highly than you're thinking. Elliot, Fournette, Barkley, Jacobs, Gurley, Gordon, McCaffrey, Peterson, all highly drafted RBs still in the league. And there are several more late 1sts/early 2nds.

Define adequate. What you really really need from a RB is the ability to get the hard yards and the ability to get positive yards when nothing is there. That is invaluable to a team. It's not about the long runs and the HR threat, it's about the tough yards.

I"m not understanding your argument. It appears you're arguing for me.

kskboys said:

There are more drafted highly than you're thinking. Elliot, Fournette, Barkley, Jacobs, Gurley, Gordon, McCaffrey, Peterson, all highly drafted RBs still in the league. And there are several more late 1sts/early 2nds.

Define adequate. What you really really need from a RB is the ability to get the hard yards and the ability to get positive yards when nothing is there. That is invaluable to a team. It's not about the long runs and the HR threat, it's about the tough yards.

I"m not understanding your argument. It appears you're arguing for me.

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They are drafted right about where I think they are. You have one 1st rounder per year, and in some years you'll get 2 or 3. Over the last 10 drafts there have only been 16 RBs taken in the 1st round. Nearly 80% of the RBs drafted in the first three rounds (77 players) over the past 10 years have come OUTSIDE of the 1st round.

Contrast that to how other positions have been drafted in the 1st round over the past 10 years:

• QB: 37
• LB: 40
• WR: 44
• DB: 64
• OL: 66
• DL: 76

TE is pretty much the only non-ST position that is taken less frequently than RB in the 1st round, and there have been 9 of those. The NFL clearly doesn't prioritize the RB position when compared to nearly every other position, and teams draft in a manner that reflects the idea that a productive RB can readily be found in later rounds. Agree or disagree all you want, but that's the reality of it.

My argument is that I don't think that individual RBs are irreplaceable in the manner that you seem to think they are, and I think the running game matters. I've argued with a number of posters who championed a once-popular claim that "rushing success does not correlate to wins".

Hoofbite said:

They are drafted right about where I think they are. You have one 1st rounder per year, and in some years you'll get 2 or 3. Over the last 10 drafts there have only been 16 RBs taken in the 1st round. Nearly 80% of the RBs drafted in the first three rounds (77 players) over the past 10 years have come OUTSIDE of the 1st round.

Contrast that to how other positions have been drafted in the 1st round over the past 10 years:

• QB: 37
• LB: 40
• WR: 44
• DB: 64
• OL: 66
• DL: 76

TE is pretty much the only non-ST position that is taken less frequently than RB in the 1st round, and there have been 9 of those. The NFL clearly doesn't prioritize the RB position when compared to nearly every other position, and teams draft in a manner that reflects the idea that a productive RB can readily be found in later rounds. Agree or disagree all you want, but that's the reality of it.

My argument is that I don't think that individual RBs are irreplaceable in the manner that you seem to think they are, and I think the running game matters. I've argued with a number of posters who championed a once-popular claim that "rushing success does not correlate to wins".

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Depends on the RB.

10 cent mind, million dollar talent that self implodes. I think Ego and Greed coupled with selfish entitlement has created himself a monster. LARGELY HE IS TO BLAME, but we must acknowledge that the NFL also created this environment and not all players respond well. This is case and point. He's now painted into a corner by his own hand and I would venture to guess his playing days are over as a result. Give yourself a hand Leveon, you moron. Dude might be broke in 2 years time.

Rayman70 said:

10 cent mind, million dollar talent that self implodes. I think Ego and Greed coupled with selfish entitlement has created himself a monster. LARGELY HE IS TO BLAME, but we must acknowledge that the NFL also created this environment and not all players respond well. This is case and point. He's now painted into a corner by his own hand and I would venture to guess his playing days are over as a result. Give yourself a hand Leveon, you moron. Dude might be broke in 2 years time.

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The NFL created this environment? Which aspect? The extreme greed?

kskboys said:

The NFL created this environment? Which aspect? The extreme greed?

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PARTLY him, partly them. He has mismanaged his career.