The 2020 defense was bad

Verdict said:

The 2020 defense was bad, that’s a reality and a fact. Based on statistics, it was historically bad. So why say anything good about the defense?

I don’t think the defense was a bad as it looked on paper last year. There were parts that were historically bad. But never underestimate how poor coaching can make a team look a lot worse than the talent in the defense suggests it is.

I think the defense added some legitimate players this off-season, at bargain basement prices. Bargain basement prices do not necessarily mean that the player can’t play. The guys who came in are, in some cases, an improvement over who left.

This was a defense oriented draft. Lots of new faces on the defense. If we drafted well there is a reasonable likelihood that we will get improved play from the rookie defenders.

I really believe that the defense played so poorly last year in part due to coaching. Quinn doesn’t have to bring dominant coaching here to improve the defense, he just needs to not suck. That will be better than anything we have had at DC since probably Zimmer, and he was nothing special.

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How bad was it?

MountaineerCowboy said:

As bad as our rush defense was it still wasn't the worst in the league. That's all I am saying here. Yes, we had a very bad defense, but I would think to be "historically bad" like some claim you would need to literally be the worst of all time in some kind of significant category. We wasn't even the worst in the league, let alone of all time, in any significant category.

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We were 31st against the run. I hear you, but no. That's bad. Doesn't even need to be historical. This team is too young to be next to last in any category. We'd have won the East with 4 QB changes if not for that garbage defense that was put on the field.

The players gave up on Nolan and Nolan never gelled with the players. We all can agree that it was the wrong time to change the defense scheme with Covid. The sad part is the players didnt buy into it some had attitudes about it and therefore caused division in the locker room. Nolan isnt really a people person to begin with.
This year they have a guy in Quinn who is a leader and a very likeable person. The players have really taken to him and they wont quit on him.
This defense will be better then last years defense. Crap all they have to do is show up and their already a better unit

all I know is that super star Dalton didn't need a top 10 defense or gaudy stats to win games.
Poor ole dak needs super stars around him, sorta like what Jimmy said.

MountaineerCowboy said:

The defense was bad, but 9 other teams gave up more yards then us, 11 other teams gave up more first downs, TWENTY ONE more teams gave up more passing yards, 1 other team gave up more rushing yards, 14 other teams had more defensive penalties, and 4 other teams gave up more points.

So how exactly was the defense "historically bad" when it wasn't last in anything meaningful? It was just a bad defense, but not historically bad. The 2020 defense is not a defense we can make any deep run with, but still yet, not a historically bad defense.

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They were historically bad in comparison to past Cowboys defense.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article248263270.html

MountaineerCowboy said:

I provided you stone cold numbers.

You don't have to accept them, that's your choice, but you'd think a so called "historically bad" defense would at least be the worst in the NFL at something meaningful.

We're all the defenses that put up worse numbers last year also historically bad?

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Historically bad or just bad, what's the difference? They gave up a lot of points, one of the worst defenses in Cowboys history. They were bad. Really bad. Don't take my word for it. Jerry fired Nolan after 1 season.

I think they fooled some people by playing better at the end of the season, but the teams they played had problems of their own. The Bengals played with some scrub at QB, so did the 49ers. The Eagles offense was more banged up than the Cowboys. They gave up3 TDs to the Giants who had not scored more than 1 offensive TD in the 5 previous games. The Cowboys defense was bad.

MountaineerCowboy said:

The defense was bad, but 9 other teams gave up more yards then us, 11 other teams gave up more first downs, TWENTY ONE more teams gave up more passing yards, 1 other team gave up more rushing yards, 14 other teams had more defensive penalties, and 4 other teams gave up more points.

So how exactly was the defense "historically bad" when it wasn't last in anything meaningful? It was just a bad defense, but not historically bad. The 2020 defense is not a defense we can make any deep run with, but still yet, not a historically bad defense.

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Historically bad because the Cowboys placed in the bottom half of the league in almost every statistic you pointed out. The only reason we weren't in the bottom half in passing yards is because ONLY 1 OTHER TEAM GAVE UP MORE RUSHING YARDS!

BAD teams rank in the bottom half in a category or two. The statistics YOU used show what an awful, awful defense we had last year. Other than our expansion year as a new team, we gave up more points per game than at any other time in our history. Our defense gave up 29.6 points per game! That is the definition of historically bad.

In order to improve this defense Quinn must instill confidence in himself and in themselves. That was the major obstacle last season along with questionable talent.

Offense is attack and can afford to think more; defense is react and cannot do that.

That defense in the early 90's, what was their magic? Swarm, they flew to the ball because they could react and were confident they were in the right place at the right time. Johnson and Wannstedt put them there, all they had to do was read, react and make the play.

Last season's defense was like a counter puncher in boxing only they couldn't land enough blows to slow down the opponent for a counter attack.

Quinn has the film from last season to show him where it went wrong and he has one other thing going for him, they were looking better toward the end of the season. Some say that was more the level of competition but when it comes to regaining confidence, does that really matter?

If one is to achieve; one must first believe. Quinn's job is to get inside their minds, that's where it starts.

MountaineerCowboy said:

So all those defenses that were worst then the Cowboys also had "historically bad" defenses too? I find it highly unlikely that 2020 was just chalk full of "historically bad" defenses.

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I loved the rent free comment. But historically bad from my 50 year history of watching the Cowboys is pretty accurate!

The total yards and points improved after Dak went down because opposing offenses didn’t have to press anymore. In the games Dak started, the Cowboys scored 17, 40, 38, 31, and 37. The next few games without Dak, they went 10, 3, 9, 19, 31, and 16. If offenses know you can’t move the ball, they take fewer risks.

MountaineerCowboy said:

My post with the numbers was not even to you. It was to the original poster.

You butted in with your "BUT THE FIRST 4 WEEKS" stuff. I don't care. I wasn't even talking to you.

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History only goes through the first 4 weeks. But not the first 5.

See?

Different.

Verdict said:

The 2020 defense was bad, that’s a reality and a fact. Based on statistics, it was historically bad. So why say anything good about the defense?

I don’t think the defense was a bad as it looked on paper last year. There were parts that were historically bad. But never underestimate how poor coaching can make a team look a lot worse than the talent in the defense suggests it is.

I think the defense added some legitimate players this off-season, at bargain basement prices. Bargain basement prices do not necessarily mean that the player can’t play. The guys who came in are, in some cases, an improvement over who left.

This was a defense oriented draft. Lots of new faces on the defense. If we drafted well there is a reasonable likelihood that we will get improved play from the rookie defenders.

I really believe that the defense played so poorly last year in part due to coaching. Quinn doesn’t have to bring dominant coaching here to improve the defense, he just needs to not suck. That will be better than anything we have had at DC since probably Zimmer, and he was nothing special.

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somebody actually said the reason rush defense was bad it was because of offense. never understood that one.....

but with that said, yes, defense was historically bad, I don't think it was a talented defense, but nolan made it historically bad, without him we would have been really bad. the DL was awful. specially middle of the defense, thus a couple of lunch pail guys focusing on the run defense. CB play was up and down. thus good bye awuzie. saftey play was inconsistent and has been that way for several years, so I can't attribute that to Nolan. the LBs were lost. one thing it exposed was how limited Jaylon is in space and that he can't run or change direction. they need to simplify the defense for him and he is at this point a 2 down LB at best, and if its 2nd and 6 or more, get him off the field.

we should improve this year. it shouldn't be hard to improve upon one of the worst defenses ever. but I don't expect a huge turn around. low 20s probably would be realistic. late teens probably fantastic. mid teens probably un-real. new scheme, new coach, bunch of new players (4 or 5 is it?). it will take time to jell and come together. we will give up some big plays early on in the year, until they get on the same page. I look to see how this defense plays in the last 6-8 games. that will be the tell tale sign of how much the defense has really improved.

CowboyRoy said:

I was told by MountaineerCowboy that the defense was bad because the offense scored too quickly. He actually said it was the offenses fault that the defense was as bad as it was. True story!

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wait. really? he also said its because the offense didn't score enough....so we scored too much and too quick, but we didn't score enough. sounds like he was trying to be on both sides of the fence at the same time. then again its him, I am not surprised LOL...he actually makes up his own rules (he said it), so he can post and validate his comments based on his own rules...go figure ...he also balks at anybody making their own rules. again, go figure.

ScipioCowboy said:

The total yards and points improved after Dak went down because opposing offenses didn’t have to press anymore. In the games Dak started, the Cowboys scored 17, 40, 38, 31, and 37. The next few games without Dak, they went 10, 3, 9, 19, 31, and 16. If offenses know you can’t move the ball, they take fewer risks.

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Your making to much sense and providing facts, that won’t go over well with some on this forum.

Verdict said:

The 2020 defense was bad, that’s a reality and a fact. Based on statistics, it was historically bad. So why say anything good about the defense?

I don’t think the defense was a bad as it looked on paper last year. There were parts that were historically bad. But never underestimate how poor coaching can make a team look a lot worse than the talent in the defense suggests it is.

I think the defense added some legitimate players this off-season, at bargain basement prices. Bargain basement prices do not necessarily mean that the player can’t play. The guys who came in are, in some cases, an improvement over who left.

This was a defense oriented draft. Lots of new faces on the defense. If we drafted well there is a reasonable likelihood that we will get improved play from the rookie defenders.

I really believe that the defense played so poorly last year in part due to coaching. Quinn doesn’t have to bring dominant coaching here to improve the defense, he just needs to not suck. That will be better than anything we have had at DC since probably Zimmer, and he was nothing special.

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i would blame head coach and then Nolan for such a lousy defensive year...our players are better then they played....they were often confused not only where to line up but what gap to contain....what would make a prof coach at any level Ok changeing the defense without practice time and mostly learning on Zoom???.....on any level how could that be sucessful????...it goes in the sheer stupidity trash can

MountaineerCowboy said:

Rent free.

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you dont really believe that do you?

Jipper said:

You do realize it was a new dc who tried to install a new system without an in person off-season or preseason right? Don’t you think that aspect would lead to taking time to develop? Regardless of who the qb was the defense was going to have massive growing pains to start the year.

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the same thing happened in Washington and New York and their defenses were fine.

this organization does not play good defense. It’s an organizational flaw and has been for years.

Meh the defense has pretty much stunk for ages now and we have a new defensive coordinator almost every year. We have had junk players on defense for a long time. Jerry likes to score points and he likes to give big contracts to his buddies. This is the end result. I get that you want to be positive and have hope but nothing has really changed. The best hope for the defense is not Dan Quinn. Their best hope is that somehow the offense returns to the 2016 Dak and Zeke rookie year form where they just dominate all day long. I think we all know that ain't happening. Every year we have gotten further and further away from what was actually working and with the new Dak contract I expect that to continue.

Verdict said:

The 2020 defense was bad, that’s a reality and a fact. Based on statistics, it was historically bad. So why say anything good about the defense?

I don’t think the defense was a bad as it looked on paper last year. There were parts that were historically bad. But never underestimate how poor coaching can make a team look a lot worse than the talent in the defense suggests it is.

I think the defense added some legitimate players this off-season, at bargain basement prices. Bargain basement prices do not necessarily mean that the player can’t play. The guys who came in are, in some cases, an improvement over who left.

This was a defense oriented draft. Lots of new faces on the defense. If we drafted well there is a reasonable likelihood that we will get improved play from the rookie defenders.

I really believe that the defense played so poorly last year in part due to coaching. Quinn doesn’t have to bring dominant coaching here to improve the defense, he just needs to not suck. That will be better than anything we have had at DC since probably Zimmer, and he was nothing special.

Click to expand...

guys can we stop this it was bad what made it historically bad was the first 10 games the offense was turning it over and tied with the eagles for lead lead in TOS,, making bad penalties putting us behind the sticks, punt way too much after dropping key passes etc etc

they piled on bad defense and that included our starters like Dak, zeke and others the first 4.5 games, his TOS gave the defense a short field to defend far too many times..

horrible defense yes, been covered , over covered, been redundant but tired of the word historic that was a team issue from coaching calls like the TG WFT game many of those even from ST etc piled on bad defense and mad eit worse..

playing from behind, taking the run game away , and losing TOP..all piled on the defense..

yes they shoulder some blame thats for sure..

the way i see it from the FO down to the equipment guy is responsible for 6-10