Ezekiel Elliott: Evaluators Question If Cowboys RB More Of A 2nd-Tier Guy

CowboyRoy said:

If Zeke finally gets in shape and has a good year then doesnt he prove his critics right?

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No

CT Dal Fan said:

I'm thinking Julius Jones. Or maybe even Troy Hambrick.

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Pollard is Hambrick part 2

gp_cowpolk said:

No

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All of us that said he was a fat, drunk, punk that wasnt committed would be wrong?

If all of a sudden he works out in the offseason and kills it?

CowboyRoy said:

This just shows how much you dont understand the game. Lets just take Marino for example.

You say he took HIS team to the SB his rookie year? More like his team took him. And then he NEVER got back. And he got much much better as he got older. Just never had the team.

Learn football......................

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Marino took the Phins to the super bowl after the 84 season, his 2nd year in the league. He set an NFL record by passing for 5,084 yds, a record that stood until just recently broken. Offhand, I'd say he carried them.

Creeper said:

I think it is obvious Zeke no longer possesses the speed he had as a rookie. It's not just his inability to breakaway either. You can see he can't get outside anymore like he did as a rookie. Last year was the first year since his rookie season where I didn't think he got slower than the year before. I don't know if I would call him second tier, but he is getting paid $15 million a year and performing like a $5 million RB. This is the problem with the Cowboys in general. Too many guys are getting paid more than they produce. $5 million here, $4 million there and before you know it you are $26 million over the CAP in 2022 and nothing to show for it.

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i'd like to see if Zeke can recapture that speed ,..i'd not yet convinced that the toll and pounding
has taken that away permanently.
And i'm still insisting that the Garrett regime buried in trying to make him a more methodical, ball control Emmitt Smith like back - that only runs up the gut - especially with Kellen Moore at the helm,

- I vastly believe and maintain that they bulked him up to be more the pounder and lesser of a breakaway back.

- Yet this off-season has reported more of Zeke trimming down and being more quicker, more elusive - that shows clearly a task to recapture the burst and home run ability

- With outside edge running - we lack TEs that hold up the edge in Jarwin and Schultz- that's why Cowboys brought in Blake Bell and will likely count on Sprinkle and McKeon to handle those in-line blocking assignments

- Also Kellen has been pretty simplistic and predictable when running certain plays for Zeke - and Pollard as well.

- We finished 5th in NFL in rushing in 2019, as a ball controller Zeke actually had a good year - but he wasn't near the same
heart throb home run hitter he was in 2016 and 2017 - that's why we draft him 4th overall and make him highest paid RB ..at that time.

Pollard may have more top end speed than Zeke - but in a full time capacity we saw that he wasn't top end as Zeke when it comes to pure brute power and driving forward vs tackles. Plus Pollard isn't as dependable as zeke when it comes to blitz blocking.

Zeke has fell off in this area but he is still better than Pollard

kskboys said:

Marino took the Phins to the super bowl after the 84 season, his 2nd year in the league. He set an NFL record by passing for 5,084 yds, a record that stood until just recently broken. Offhand, I'd say he carried them.

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and then what happened in the SB? no ring no matter. Just pretty numbers like so many here. Drew Brees had 5000 yd seasons year after year. 1 ring in a year when he did not reach that level. And nothing really close after that.
Matt Ryan really has racked up the numbers. But when it counted in the SB what happened?
You and other whine and cry about how RBs are all but worthless. Well I see all these passing numbers you drool about and not many rings there. Peyton Manning s only two rings came when he had a top D. Heck the last one he got frankly I think he should give back as bad as he played.
Mahoones had a great year; then got wiped in the SB because he came up against a top D with a patchwork O line.
You can drool about Dak's numbers all you want. Marino NEVER got a ring despite being the top passer of his era.

Tangle_Foot said:

He has definitely earned the right to be questioned. With last season figuring heavily into my opinion, right now he is a second tier back, on a first tier contract, garnering first tier hate. But I think he's in a good position to redeem himself this season, with a better supporting cast, better physical shape and a more focused mental approach. Even in a passing league we need him to be the force that he once was. I'm hoping for the best.

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when there was talk that Vikes were considering trading All Day future HOFer Adrien Peterson , even Cowboys Nation and
players were drooling with the idea of adding Peterson to Tony Romo - and what that kind of dual threat would do to an
opposing defense.

i still recall then Dez Bryants' dream tweet of adding Peterson to a Romo led offense.

When Zeke was drafted - it was the same drooling added thought that saw an 2016 Adrian Peterson - like runner and home run threat in Elliott, You know the history of Romo hurt and never returning per Dak Prescott era

Fast Forward to 2021, .. with a vastly improved passer in Dak returning to health (who was only a mere 9 yards from Romo's single season passing record ..thanks Garrett) ..imagine 2016 Zeke added to that same 2019 Dak .

- pack and stack the line vs Zeke ..and some receivers and TEs are flying by safeties
- use more nickel packages to defend Dak and receivers - and you'll have the 2016 zeke exploding into the 2nd level of
defenders en route to more 20-40 yrd runs he enjoyed in 2016

CowboyRoy said:

This just shows how much you dont understand the game. Lets just take Marino for example.

You say he took HIS team to the SB his rookie year? More like his team took him. And then he NEVER got back. And he got much much better as he got older. Just never had the team.

Learn football......................

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You just don’t get it, low football IQ, these guys lead their teams to successful playoff runs they elevated their teams and made the players around them better, up to this point it just isn’t so with Dak he doesn’t elevate the team he gets carried and until that changes nothing will change for the Cowboys.

acr731 said:

Aside from Andrew Luck, did you notice that every QB you mentioned at least played in a super bowl? How far has your super hero made it in the playoffs?

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First, you said "Did ANY of them ever get a ring." You didn't say "Did any of them play in a Super Bowl"? Your arms must hurt moving that goal post.

Second, Dan Fouts didn't play in a Super Bowl.

Third, it takes a TEAM to get to a Super Bowl. You don't think Bo Jackson could have gotten to the Super Bowl with the 90s Cowboys? Adrian Peterson? Eric Dickerson?

Fourth, do you think many if not most would dispute that Dickerson, Jackson or Peterson weren't worthy of a top pick? A top 10 pick? Looking at the NFL 2007 draft in which AP was picked #7. What four players in the first round would you have drafted above Peterson? How about Bo Jackson? Which top 11 players would you have picked above him? How about Eric Dickerson? Same criterion.

Remember, this discussion is about picking a running back with a high first round pick, not about whether a running back ALONE will contribute to a team's Super Bowl success. And, actually, we know running backs DO contribute to their team's Super Bowl success or even getting their team to the Super Bowl: see Emmitt Smith, Franco Harris, Jerome Bettis, Tony Dorsett, Marcus Allen, Walter Payton, Shaun Alexander, Marshawn Lynch, Reggie Bush, Jamal Lewis - all first round draft picks.

Do you want to make an argument that Adrian Peterson, Bo Jackson and Eric Dickerson aren't better than Shaun Alexander, Marshawn Lynch, Reggie Bush, Jerome Bettis, Jamal Lewis and Franco Harris? Some would argue they're equal to or better than even the other great running backs like Emmitt and Dorsett and Allen and Payton.

As long as the running game is part of football, the value of running backs needs to be considered in a team's overall performance. Currently, running backs are undervalued because the game features the passing game more because rules have been instituted to make football more "sexy," which means featuring a fantastic passing game.

But ... when a great running back (such as the original three I mentioned) is available, you take him. We thought that was the case with Zeke. Teams can get it wrong. It happens. Shrug.

And, yes, I surmise the 2000 Patriots, the 90s Cowboys or the 80s Niners or the 70s Steelers would have been just as potent (if not more so) if they had Dickerson, Jackson and Peterson behind the Great Wall of Dallas.

Brax said:

Most of those guys got their team to the big game.

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That wasn't the standard set by acr731.
And, even if they did, running backs have gotten their teams to the big game also - unless you're willing to argue that Emmitt Smith, Jerome Bettis, Shaun Alexander, Marcus Allen, Jamal Lewis (see my post above this one for other examples) played little or no role whatsoever in getting their teams to the Super Bowl.
It's a team game. Even so, we hold quarterbacks to a higher standard for Super Bowl appearances and victories than any other singular position.
Is it fair? No.
Is it what it is? Yes.

kskboys said:

Marino took the Phins to the super bowl after the 84 season, his 2nd year in the league. He set an NFL record by passing for 5,084 yds, a record that stood until just recently broken. Offhand, I'd say he carried them.

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Marino was amazing. Was also surrounded by some great talent and coaching.

Risen Star said:

Who wouldn't pale in comparison to Pollard?

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He is also the #2 WR on the team. Don’t cut him short.

USArmyVet said:

Bottom line is that Zeke is just like many Dallas Cowboys players: as soon as they get paid a large new contract their on the field production drops (see Zeke, DLaw, J. Smith, T. Smith, etc.).

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That didn’t happen. Smith signed his contract in July 2014 after his first pro-bowl and then went to six more pro-bowls in a row including first team all pro in 2016. He's had some injuries but those didn't start until he was half way through an eight year contract. Even then he's been consistently good when available.

Brax said:

You just don’t get it, low football IQ, these guys lead their teams to successful playoff runs they elevated their teams and made the players around them better, up to this point it just isn’t so with Dak he doesn’t elevate the team he gets carried and until that changes nothing will change for the Cowboys.

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Dak doesnt make the defense better, we can agree on that.

Neither did Marino. Its why he never won a championship. But in case you were wondering when Dak lead the #1 offense in NFL history through the first 4 games last year, that included Marino's Dolphin offense.

CowboyRoy said:

If Zeke finally gets in shape and has a good year then doesnt he prove his critics right?

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The answer is ‘yes’; however, his critics have already been proven right. There are only a few Zeke fanboys left who are blind to his decline, but there will always be those types, just like the few Dez fanboys that couldn’t see his decline occurring.

Aviano90 said:

The answer is ‘yes’; however, his critics have already been proven right. There are only a few Zeke fanboys left who are blind to his decline, but there will always be those types, just like the few Dez fanboys that couldn’t see his decline occurring.

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I expect Zeke to have a better year for several reasons. The line is healthy and will be much better as well as the offense with Dak back. If he finally committed himself after 6 years in the NFL then I am at least happy about that. But it does underline the issues me and other Zeke haters have had with him. The fat jokes are funny, but they have been true. His getting drunk, going to Cabo, being out of shape early and starting slow have been hallmarks of Zekes offseason approach. If he is working on his quickness and speed and moves then this also acknowledges what many of us have seen.

JoeKing said:

No excuses? There are always reasons something doesn't happen. If you want to call them "excuses" is up to you. The O line being down is a legitimate reason Zeke didn't break the 1000 yard barrier last season.

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Henry doubled Elliott’s yardage and Henry had basically the same talent at OL, same talent at QB, and much less talent at WR with the Titans. How do you excuse Elliott now? Defense and coaching? Yeah, that’s the ticket why ‘Low Key Fade’ Elliott stunk.

I was going to not comment on this thread because I can’t stand zeke and sometimes my thoughts are jaded .
I’ll give him a somewhat of a pass for 2020 as it was just one those years for the entire team.

his fumbling is the biggest issue for me and it keeps rearing it’s ugly head. There are also times when I think he tries to run over people instead of eluding them

why is that? I don’t know could it be he knows his ability to elude is suspect now perhaps

I’ll give him the oline excuse as I think outside of Zach Martin they have gotten progressively worse and have lived off their 2014-18 reputation. I also think their decline has had an impact on zekes blocking

I won’t give him the COVID excuse. I realize everyone is different but he’s an athlete in top top shape I’m told and he don’t get that excuse. I had covid and was back to work in 7 days and back to working out

zeke was better the 2nd half of season I’ll give him that but man this team would be killer if we could swap out him for Henry ( that’s the hater in me lol)

DanA said:

That didn’t happen. He got his contract and about 4 years later he started getting some back issues. His play really hasn’t dropped that much either.

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Tyron Smith signed an extension in July 2014 and from 2016-2019 he missed 3 games in each of those seasons and then 14 games missed in 2020.......so it wasn't 4 years after he signed his extension and in addition penalties called on T. Smith have increased from a total of 30 in seasons 2011-2014 (63 games) to 40 in seasons 2015-2020 (70 games), with the majority of recent penalties being holding.

CowboyRoy said:

I expect Zeke to have a better year for several reasons. The line is healthy and will be much better as well as the offense with Dak back. If he finally committed himself after 6 years in the NFL then I am at least happy about that. But it does underline the issues me and other Zeke haters have had with him. The fat jokes are funny, but they have been true. His getting drunk, going to Cabo, being out of shape early and starting slow have been hallmarks of Zekes offseason approach. If he is working on his quickness and speed and moves then this also acknowledges what many of us have seen.

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I know. People claim Zeke got paid and declined. Even they can’t see what happened. The decline with Zeke occurred after his rookie year. He was special in 2016 and then we was a battering ram begging in 2017. Two versions of Zeke. 2016 Zeke and 2017-2021 Zeke.