2018 Cowboys Draft Grade 3 Years Later - A for Awesome

J12B

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LVE - 5th-year option declined
Williams - Weak link on the O-line
Gallup - Won't be back next year
Schulz - only gets on the field when Jarwin is hurt.

Yeah, great draft class. :rolleyes:

Just because Gallup can't be afforded doesn't mean he wasn't a good pick.

Gallup has been tremendous value for a 3rd rounder.
 

JoeKing

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Salary cap. You can only allot so much money to each position. Gallup is a good player, no doubt. But we have Cooper making a lot and, assuming Lamb continues to develop, makes Gallup a luxury. Sure, we run 3 WR's a ton but you can't have 3 #1 WR's on a team.
A contract extension that doesn't go into effect until next season doesn't hurt the salary cap this season. It only locks up players for you in the future. The reason it's not being done is exactly what I said it was... the talent isn't there. ;)

Williams is the weak link because he is surrounded by first round picks, All-Pros, and future HOFers. He's not bad, but he could be improved upon. He could start for a lot of teams and if he is not resigned I would bet he goes to another team as a starter.
Bingo, that's it. :clap:

Schultz may be 2nd TE. He may take over for Jarwin. No idea how he comes back after missing all of last year. I thought Schultz played well last year and most offenses use 2 TE sets a lot these days so even if does end up being #2 he'll probably see a good amount of playing time.
Anybody with two functioning eyes could see Schultz played well last year. Despite his grade "A" subbing in for Jarwin in 2020, he's still no Jarwin. Jarwin is the only TE that has chemistry with Dak at QB. It's laughable that you even entertain the idea that Schultz could take over the TE1 job from Jarwin. :muttley:

Why are you so negative? I remember there was a thread about a 3 year old knowing all the players numbers and you were even negative there. Football is supposed to be fun.
God forbid I see things differently than you do. And of course, anything that doesn't follow your glowing perspective of everything must be viewed as negative, just because you say so. :rolleyes:
 

JoeKing

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Just because Gallup can't be afforded doesn't mean he wasn't a good pick.

Gallup has been tremendous value for a 3rd rounder.
I agree. He deserves to get the raise that the cheapskate Jones boys won't give him. In his case, the talent is there. I was more talking about LVE whose talent since being drafted has faded fast.
 

Cattle_Rancher

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1st round only reason I wasn't a fan of LVE pick was health concerns had the talent just not sure you spend that on someone with those types of issues. Was there really anyone else there a lot of people liked Evans and maybe you go with Edmunds who is a decent safety a big need

2nd round I wanted Brown or Andrews watched both play college and thought they would be great pros

3rd I like Gallup and actually thought he was 2nd round talent

4th I'd take Jordan Whitehead who was taken the pick after the Cowboys he is the Bucs starting safety and would fill a big who on the Cowboys roster. No problem with Schultz

5th can't fault them for taking a shot on a QB

6th Wilson Jr is looking pretty good could end up being the Cowboys 3rd WR in 2022

7th a lot of people were excited about Bo

Overall not a bad draft by the Cowboys especially since it kinda looks like a weak class overall as a whole.
 

75boyz

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The NFL salary cap and sense of urgency to win sooner influences my thoughts here.
If LVE does a full recovery and has a balls out season to go along with Williams and Gallup doing the same, then a strong possibility exists that all could be on a different team next year.
Whereas a second contract/extension used to mean that player has met or exceeded his draft position, now those second contracts seem to be less frequent with the quicker turnaround decisions being made by GMs.

But in Dallas's case, this FO seems to be locked somewhere in between with decent contracts given Brown and Lewis based on production while totally overpaying the other well known cast of characters.

So I guess 2018's 1sr thru 3rd picks are a success based on perspective.
If you can look at it from the value perspective of having met draft position production,
then these guys have done that but have priced themselves out of the Cowboys' cap because several other team mates are overpaid so there's no money left.

So yeah...
And it's a never ending cycle, lol.
jmo
 

Jake

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What forums are you reading here? Are you living in some alternate universe? I see the vast majority of posts about Cowboys Management being anti-Jerry/Stephen/McClay/McCarthy/front office.

Any opinion praising the front office for doing something well is treated like kryptonite, especially with the large number of posters suffering from Jerry Derangement Syndrome.

"Jerry Derangement Syndrome" suggests something that is not based in reality. When the same guy is calling the shots on "everything down to the jocks and the socks" it's logical to point the finger at him. He owns the 3 SBs in the 90s AND 25 years of treading water ever since. It all starts (and ends) with him.

As for an alleged alternate universe, I can find threads declaring the greatness of Dak, Zeke, Amari, the offensive line, Mike McCarthy, and Dan Quinn, among other things. Are there also negative threads? Yes. That doesn't negate the fact that some fans see greatness everywhere, despite the lack of results.
 

Ranching

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft

Jerry, McClay & scouting team, and coaches hit it out of the park. I just looked at the players and talent the Cowboys chose and did not consider need.

19 Players made the Pro Bowl. Cowboys got one in LVE. Balt TE Andrews was the last player drafted to make the Pro Bowl at #86 overall in the 3rd round. The Seahawks punter in the 5th round made the Pro Bowl but who counts punters?

1) At worst, the Cowboys got the 4th or 5th best LB in the draft. Colts Leonard, Bills Edmunds, 49ers Warner, LVE, and Bears Smith. Had LVE been healthy, who knows where he would rank with those guys. LVE was the 3rd LB drafted and made 1 Pro Bowl.

2) 3 Guards went before Connor Williams - Colts Nelson, Giants Hernandez, and Colts Braden Smith. Connor Williams is better than any guard taken after him. Where does Williams rank with Hernandez and Smith? Nelson is one of the best ever. Hernandez, Smith, and Williams are good. Williams is in the same league as Hernandez and Smith. At worst, the 4th best guard in a draft with some really good ones.

3) Cowboys got the 2nd best WR in the draft in Gallup. Only Ridley is better. I have Gallup better than Chark and Sutton. Only two players possibly better at their positions than Gallup is at WR taken after Gallup. Those 2 are OT Orlando Brown and TE Andrews. Gallup is better than every player taken after him with the exception of Orlando Brown and maybe TE Andrews.

4) Cowboys got maybe the second best TE in the draft with Schultz in the 4th round. At worst, probably the 3rd best TE depending on what one thinks of Miami's Gesicki.

5) Cowboys got 4 players with starter talent - LVE, Williams, Gallup, and Schultz. And they also got DE Armstrong and WR Wilson who are contributors and can play. Between Gallup and Wilson in the draft, there are only about 3 WRs maybe better than Wilson - Falcons Gage, Packers Valdez-Scalding, and Saints Smith.

All things considered, that was a really good draft class in my opinion. One can only draft players available and the Cowboys got some of the best available in hindsight. Very few players drafted after the Cowboy players were better.
Thank you Jerry!
 

75boyz

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What forums are you reading here? Are you living in some alternate universe? I see the vast majority of posts about Cowboys Management being anti-Jerry/Stephen/McClay/McCarthy/front office.

Any opinion praising the front office for doing something well is treated like kryptonite, especially with the large number of posters suffering from Jerry Derangement Syndrome.

So the same people hitting these home run drafts are the exact 2 people writing these absolutely horrendously overpaid contracts?

Your post history suggests you have disagreements with 3 or 4 of the current contracts to overpaid players. The decision on those contracts come from the same people deciding on whom to draft...

I mean if they possess the ability to not overpay Lewis or Brown, why is there no middle ground on the likes of Prescott, Elliott, Cooper, Lawrence and Smith?

It's the same 2 guys making the decisions on draft day and contract day.

Just sayin these posts seem somewhat contradictory...

Unless...

Your point IS that Jones and Son know how to draft BUT suck at contract writing.

THEN, I would understand.

jmo
 

jnday

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One can only choose from available players in the draft. Best way to grade a draft is to look at the players chosen against who was available at the time.

Most likely, only one player in that draft taken after Gallup, Orlando Brown, is better than Gallup.

Name a player taken after Schultz who is better?
Name a player taken after Williams who is better? Only a few.
Name a player taken after Armstrong who is better?

Williams, Gallup, Schultz, Armstrong, and Wilson are better than a whole lot of players taken ahead of them.

Go ahead and dig through that list and report back. I’ll even spot you hindsight.

Everything you wrote is either irrelevant, untrue, or unknown at this point.
There has to be a lot of players better than Armstrong. He has done nothing to improve the team.
 

Alexander

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Our ability to draft just puts the rest of the league to shame.
 

quickccc

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft

Jerry, McClay & scouting team, and coaches hit it out of the park. I just looked at the players and talent the Cowboys chose and did not consider need.

19 Players made the Pro Bowl. Cowboys got one in LVE. Balt TE Andrews was the last player drafted to make the Pro Bowl at #86 overall in the 3rd round. The Seahawks punter in the 5th round made the Pro Bowl but who counts punters?

1) At worst, the Cowboys got the 4th or 5th best LB in the draft. Colts Leonard, Bills Edmunds, 49ers Warner, LVE, and Bears Smith. Had LVE been healthy, who knows where he would rank with those guys. LVE was the 3rd LB drafted and made 1 Pro Bowl.

2) 3 Guards went before Connor Williams - Colts Nelson, Giants Hernandez, and Colts Braden Smith. Connor Williams is better than any guard taken after him. Where does Williams rank with Hernandez and Smith? Nelson is one of the best ever. Hernandez, Smith, and Williams are good. Williams is in the same league as Hernandez and Smith. At worst, the 4th best guard in a draft with some really good ones.

3) Cowboys got the 2nd best WR in the draft in Gallup. Only Ridley is better. I have Gallup better than Chark and Sutton. Only two players possibly better at their positions than Gallup is at WR taken after Gallup. Those 2 are OT Orlando Brown and TE Andrews. Gallup is better than every player taken after him with the exception of Orlando Brown and maybe TE Andrews.

4) Cowboys got maybe the second best TE in the draft with Schultz in the 4th round. At worst, probably the 3rd best TE depending on what one thinks of Miami's Gesicki.

5) Cowboys got 4 players with starter talent - LVE, Williams, Gallup, and Schultz. And they also got DE Armstrong and WR Wilson who are contributors and can play. Between Gallup and Wilson in the draft, there are only about 3 WRs maybe better than Wilson - Falcons Gage, Packers Valdez-Scalding, and Saints Smith.

All things considered, that was a really good draft class in my opinion. One can only draft players available and the Cowboys got some of the best available in hindsight. Very few players drafted after the Cowboy players were better.

- First compare the QBs that those WRs are having to play with Sutton and DJ Clark .. at least Gally has Dak … but Clark has had to play with awful to average QB play … and the best Sutton
could do is ever struggling Drew Lock.

- C Wilson is an average run of the mill WR who got his only big break vs a Seahawks blown coverage woes – he wasn’t a factor since. Armstrong is JAG, chance he won’t likely make the 53 roster

- Isn’t Braden Smith playing RT with the Colts ?
 

TwoCentPlain

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There has to be a lot of players better than Armstrong. He has done nothing to improve the team.

Go look through the list and let us know. Nothing really stood out to me. Maybe a handful or so. Maybe not. Should be pretty easy for you if Armstrong is so bad as you say.

I believe Armstrong was the 2nd leading tackler for the DL last year.
 

TwoCentPlain

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So the same people hitting these home run drafts are the exact 2 people writing these absolutely horrendously overpaid contracts?

Your post history suggests you have disagreements with 3 or 4 of the current contracts to overpaid players. The decision on those contracts come from the same people deciding on whom to draft...

I mean if they possess the ability to not overpay Lewis or Brown, why is there no middle ground on the likes of Prescott, Elliott, Cooper, Lawrence and Smith?

It's the same 2 guys making the decisions on draft day and contract day.

Just sayin these posts seem somewhat contradictory...

Unless...

Your point IS that Jones and Son know how to draft BUT suck at contract writing.

THEN, I would understand.

jmo

Yes, the same GM and front office is drafting the players, signing FAs, and signing the contracts.

Yes, some of the contracts are horrendous from a salary cap perspective and I point those out. Aikman, Romo, Crawford, Dak, Lawrence, Elliott and Jaylon. I believe Jerry, like many Cowboy fans, becomes too attached to the players and, because he has so much money, he can and does overpay sometimes. Jerry is almost always giving the paying Cowboy fans the players they want. Jerry is loyal and friendly to a fault with many players.

I pointed out where I thought Jerry and the front office made major mistakes: Firing Jimmy, Not drafting Moss, Overpaying Romo, Caving to Elliott, and Overpaying Dak.

I praise when they do well and criticize when they don't do well. Goes for the GM and goes for the players. I try to be fair and honest in my critiques.
 

buybuydandavis

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Basically everyone on defense looked worse last year than in years past. I think (hope) a lot of that had to do with the scheme. I think everyone on defense will look better this coming year with Quinn, a simpler scheme, and an actual TC\pre-season to learn everything. I say all that to say that I think LVE will look more like the player we were hoping to see when we drafted him. I'm hoping the D-line will also show improvement which will help to keep linemen off of him. He may get resigned, he may not. Injuries have definitely affected him and you can't say a draft pick was bad simply because a player got hurt.

LVE was 58.4 in 2019, 50.6 in 2020.

LVE didn't just "get" hurt. He wasn't struck by lightning. He had known injury issues. There should be no shock that his problems continued with us, and that possibility should have been factored in when we were on the board at 19 in 2018.

Very little chance we resign him. He'd have to be All Pro and we tag him, or just really stink and attract no interest. If he just plays well, he's another Byron who we're not going to get into a bidding war for in free agency. We'd rather take the comp pick and move on.

The injuries and resultant poor play put us in a position where we couldn't exercise his 5th year option. Bad pick at 19.

I'm a guy who's willing to take risks on injured players in the draft. LVE's record just didn't justify that risk. He was a reach at 19.
 

buybuydandavis

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Interesting stat, their career average weight. I wonder what the +/- is for their grades. In general, it seems like decent grades for career AV.

Interesting that they have Colts guard Smith at 21, Giants Hernandez at 18, and Williams at 17. Basically, that confirms what I see in not much difference between these 3 players.

The metrics they have at PFR, like AV and HOF Monitor, aren't perfect and can be argued with, but the trends are about right. Same with PFF.
 

TwoCentPlain

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- First compare the QBs that those WRs are having to play with Sutton and DJ Clark .. at least Gally has Dak … but Clark has had to play with awful to average QB play … and the best Sutton
could do is ever struggling Drew Lock.

- C Wilson is an average run of the mill WR who got his only big break vs a Seahawks blown coverage woes – he wasn’t a factor since. Armstrong is JAG, chance he won’t likely make the 53 roster

- Isn’t Braden Smith playing RT with the Colts ?

Well, I guess if one had a lot of time, one could factor in QB comparison when rating WRs. Could factor in opponent defensive strength, could factor in garbage yard stats, etc. No one has time for that or a way to do it accurately and I would just make the assumption that at the NFL level, it probably would even out over the long run.

Maybe Braden Smith is playing RT. Good catch. Doesn't change much other than Williams now being one of the top 3 guards taken instead of the top 4 guards.
 

75boyz

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Yes, the same GM and front office is drafting the players, signing FAs, and signing the contracts.

Yes, some of the contracts are horrendous from a salary cap perspective and I point those out. Aikman, Romo, Crawford, Dak, Lawrence, Elliott and Jaylon. I believe Jerry, like many Cowboy fans, becomes too attached to the players and, because he has so much money, he can and does overpay sometimes. Jerry is almost always giving the paying Cowboy fans the players they want. Jerry is loyal and friendly to a fault with many players.

I pointed out where I thought Jerry and the front office made major mistakes: Firing Jimmy, Not drafting Moss, Overpaying Romo, Caving to Elliott, and Overpaying Dak.

I praise when they do well and criticize when they don't do well. Goes for the GM and goes for the players. I try to be fair and honest in my critiques.

Fair enough. I can respect the balance, honest perspective and accountability for all.

Excellent response.
 
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