A common complaint about Dak is he is horrible in the redzone

TwoCentPlain · Jul 27, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Oh look.. another Dak Slobberers and Dak Troll thread. Same ole crap.

Start a better thread. Show everyone how to do it.

Diehardblues · Jul 27, 2021

ninja said:
Start a better thread. Show everyone how to do it.

Dak threads are a waste of time and bottomless pit and deadend.

TwoCentPlain · Jul 27, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Dak threads are a waste of time and bottomless pit and deadend.

I doubt the Dak threads are going away any time soon. As long as the Cowboys are winning, they might not be too bad. If Dak’s play goes south, it will be brutal.

RS12 · Jul 27, 2021

USArmyVet said:
There are numerous examples when he failed to show up actually (ex. Saints, Patriots, Eagles a few times, etc.) so not sure how you can say it's just perception.

Garrett's last game on the road 2019 vs the Egiirls. You can still smell it.

Pessimist_cowboy · Jul 27, 2021

My only complaint is that he’s sucked vs good teams in the 4th quarter. In his first couple years he was money. That mojo is gone.

Captain-Crash · Jul 27, 2021

Cowboy Lover said:
Exactly. He puts on airs...but he is a true real troll. He puts all these dak thing up...knowing what's gonna happen...then battles them. Like he's missing his active duty action. This behavior should not be allowed.

he's one of the mod guys' creepy uncles.

PAPPYDOG · Jul 27, 2021

Diehardblues said:
Oh look.. another Dak Slobberers and Dak Troll thread. Same ole crap.

DFWJC · Jul 27, 2021

Cowboy4ever said:
It is important but not sure it is a good thing.. completely. I mean, no INT is always good but is it a result of risk aversion being way out of whack in the Red Zone. Would we rather no INT if it means the QB is only throwing to either wide open WR or pre determined spots (think a Fade) and not giving his WR a chance to otherwise make a play. I am not suggesting a gunslinger mentality and 3 points is always better than 0 points, so that's always important. But I also don't want my QB playing scared or without confidence. There are times he needs to be more aggressive in his progressions and trust his WR more.

You should always look at total TD-Turnover differential--not total TDs alone or total turnovers or even just the ratio in a vacuum. But combined

You can't have a large differential without having a lot of TDs yet still having not so many turnovers. You can't have a large differential and be a total bus driver or a timid QB

You can even have a high TD:Int ratio and just be playing like a total wuss
Example...go a whole season with only just 12 TDs but only 3 turnovers....that's a nice 4:1 ratio but the offense probably stunk
. :laugh:

It's simple.
Look at the basic QB rating and TD-turnover differential. If your QB is doing well in both area he is almost always playing the position well.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jul 28, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Funny how to celebrate Dak you bring up 'his' record yet when anyone brings up his record of 29-24 from 2017-2020 you and others cry about it's a 'team' game and the QB isn't to blame for the record when you have a bad defense, bad coaching, bad management, bad turf, bad water, bad weather....or whatever excuse is the flavor of the day.

You should get over this whole excuse and blame thing. Who exactly are they excusing to anyway? You?

I really like the part where you just take out his best season for no good reason and then blamed everyone else for what you spat out.

PAPPYDOG · Jul 28, 2021

FuzzyLumpkins said:
You should get over this whole excuse and blame thing. Who exactly are they excusing to anyway? You?

I really like the part where you just take out his best season for no good reason and then blamed everyone else for what you spat out.

Hey Fuzzy how would anyone feel if their best was 5 years ago.....

FuzzyLumpkins · Jul 28, 2021

PAPPYDOG said:
Hey Fuzzy how would anyone feel if their best was 5 years ago.....

Repeat yourself and add a meme.

This must be some of your best work.

buybuydandavis · Jul 28, 2021

Rockport said:
Is that he's horrible in the redzone. Look at these stats and who he's ahead of.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/redzone-passing.htm

2019. No Lamb. Witten was showing his age, and keeping Jarwin off the field. Gallup was a rookie still working on his body control. Garrett was busy throwing games to lose his job. And Dak is still more of a QB to hit a player with separation than throw a WR open.

Dak had much less to work with in the red zone in 2019, was hamstrung by the Red Menace, and is still in the process of improving his touch. This year should be better on all counts, particularly with so much more to work with at WR and TE.

And this chart has no general QB Rating or QBR. Not even YPA.

Just what stat are we supposed to be crying over?

A stat left out here is rushing TDs. Dak had 3 in 2019. A low for his career. Had 6 each in the 3 previous seasons, and 4 in only 5 games in 2020. Dak has much more value as a rusher in the red zone than most QBs.

USArmyVet · Jul 28, 2021

FuzzyLumpkins said:
You should get over this whole excuse and blame thing. Who exactly are they excusing to anyway? You?

I really like the part where you just take out his best season for no good reason and then blamed everyone else for what you spat out.

Just like I really like how Dak lovers point to 'his' 42-27 career record to somehow support Dak being a winning QB yet when people point to Dak's 29-24 record from 2017-2020 they cry and say it's a team game....can't have it both ways.

SteveTheCowboy · Jul 28, 2021

Cowboy4ever said:
So I went and watched every TD by Dak - I was curious. It includes all TD, passing, rushing and receiving and can be found on you tube. Anyway, 138 total TDs watched, Inside the 20 I counted 9 total TDs thrown in the middle of the field and Inside the 10 - 6 total TD thrown in the middle of the field. I am sure you can watch it and see more or less depending on what you consider "middle" of the field, I tried to be generous in what I was counting but to each their own.

While I was watching the video a couple things really stood out though:

Once they acquired Cooper, they didn't really attack the middle of the field in the Red Zone with passes anyway. In the video prior to Cooper, the RPO , fake and quick throw to the TE over the middle was a go to but it has all but disappeared in the last few years. Saw it only once and it was a TD, go figure.

They seemed a lot more aggressive inside the 30 in the last few years with attacking the end zone - is this the Moore effect?

Daks foot work has improved a lot since his rookie year and the result is what appears to be a much stronger arm today. Hopefully he is consistent which would eliminate my biggest compliant and concern with him.

I was not in favor of drafting a RB at 4, but man Zeke is a beast in pass protection. If you are going to have a QB worth 40 mil, you need a Zeke back there to protect him. (Still not worth the 4th overall pick)

It was a fun watch, ready for some Football now! Go Cowboys.

Nice review. Yes...I have said it many times...dak owes zeke. There are very few rbs that can take on those massive blocks so consistently.
As far as being #4...you have to remember this team was different early 2016. Could we have used a solid pick on defense? Sure, although I can't recall who was available.
But we had a Veteran qb with solid command of the offense..
Bygones be bygones...but I truly think, that despite daks epic year...things would have been different with zeke as Tony's rb.
This may or may not move your metrics on that pick....just something to consider.
It was such a powerful pick...it made a qbs career. People may or may not agree with that...don't care.

MountaineerCowboy · Jul 28, 2021

FuzzyLumpkins said:
You should get over this whole excuse and blame thing. Who exactly are they excusing to anyway? You?

I really like the part where you just take out his best season for no good reason and then blamed everyone else for what you spat out.

So, are you saying that Dak's best season, 6 years in and HUGE contract later, is still his rookie season?

Because I would agree with that, but don't you find that awfully concerning?

USArmyVet · Jul 28, 2021

Cowboy Lover said:
Nice review. Yes...I have said it many times...dak owes zeke. There are very few rbs that can take on those massive blocks so consistently.
As far as being #4...you have to remember this team was different early 2016. Could we have used a solid pick on defense? Sure, although I can't recall who was available.
But we had a Veteran qb with solid command of the offense..
Bygones be bygones...but I truly think, that despite daks epic year...things would have been different with zeke as Tony's rb.
This may or may not move your metrics on that pick....just something to consider.
It was such a powerful pick...it made a qbs career. People may or may not agree with that...don't care.

Hypothetical scenario regarding the 2016 draft that could have or could not have played out if drafted differently:

Dallas selects CB Jalen Ramsey at #4 overall instead of RB Zeke Elliott

Dallas selects RB Derrick Henry at #34 overall instead of LB Jaylon Smith

Dallas selects DE Yannick Ngakoue at #67 overall instead of DT Maliek Collins

Again, that is all hindsight but how would Dallas had done 2016-2020 had they make those 3 picks differently than they did?

However, furthering this point would be the impact in 2017 when Dallas reached for DE Taco Charlton because they needed a DE opposite Lawrence (which they would have had in Ngakoue) and instead they could have selected LB TJ Watt in the 1st round and instead of selecting CB Awuzie in the 2nd round (not needed as they would have had Ramsey) they could have selected WR Juju Smith-Schuster.....which of course could have negated the need to trade for Amari Cooper in 2018 and instead Dallas would have still had their 2019 1st round pick.

SteveTheCowboy · Jul 28, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Hypothetical scenario regarding the 2016 draft that could have or could not have played out if drafted differently:

Dallas selects CB Jalen Ramsey at #4 overall instead of RB Zeke Elliott

Dallas selects RB Derrick Henry at #34 overall instead of LB Jaylon Smith

Dallas selects DE Yannick Ngakoue at #67 overall instead of DT Maliek Collins

Again, that is all hindsight but how would Dallas had done 2016-2020 had they make those 3 picks differently than they did?

I dig that. Not sure dak has as good a year with a rookie Henry. Romo comes back in. Then what?
I dig though..for longer team success...that *could* have been a better recipe.

Cowboy4ever · Jul 28, 2021

Cowboy Lover said:
Nice review. Yes...I have said it many times...dak owes zeke. There are very few rbs that can take on those massive blocks so consistently.
As far as being #4...you have to remember this team was different early 2016. Could we have used a solid pick on defense? Sure, although I can't recall who was available.
But we had a Veteran qb with solid command of the offense..
Bygones be bygones...but I truly think, that despite daks epic year...things would have been different with zeke as Tony's rb.
This may or may not move your metrics on that pick....just something to consider.
It was such a powerful pick...it made a qbs career. People may or may not agree with that...don't care.

I totally get what you are saying. But I want to be clear. My saying I wouldn't take a RB At 4 has nothing to do with Zeke or what type of player he is. I like Zeke. But I would not take any RB, no matter who it is, at #4 overall in today's NFL. In 2016, we had built the best OL in the NFL, F Jones had almost went for 1k the year before after not starting for several games and with no QB. I just think you can find good value in rounds 3 and later for the RB position, should never take a RB that high. But we did and he is ours, so I hope he gets into the HOF

Diehardblues · Jul 28, 2021

USArmyVet said:
Just like I really like how Dak lovers point to 'his' 42-27 career record to somehow support Dak being a winning QB yet when people point to Dak's 29-24 record from 2017-2020 they cry and say it's a team game....can't have it both ways.

I agree.

As always stats and facts can be spun to support an opinion or agenda.

Dre11 · Jul 28, 2021

A common complaint about Dak is he is horrible in the redzone

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There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!

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There are no Dak haters just Cowboy lovers!!!

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