Zeke, OL, and Moore Philosophy

blueblood70 said:

theres a lot of big names from week one under 4ypc some like say Henry 3.4 zeke 3.3 hmmmmmmm that should shut some up..it wont LOL

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RonnieT24 said:

Dalvin Cook joins them on that list as well with 3.1. Saquon Barkley came in at 2.6.. Part of what happens when you're the big dog is every team paints a target on you.. If your line or your QB aint up to snuff you're in for a lot of days like this. I suspect they will all get back on track sooner than later. Well except maybe Barkley.. It's tough to imagine his running style holding up on that surgically repaired knee.. But I guess it worked for Peterson so it might work out for him.

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RonnieT24 said:

Dalvin Cook joins them on that list as well with 3.1. Saquon Barkley came in at 2.6.. Part of what happens when you're the big dog is every team paints a target on you.. If your line or your QB aint up to snuff you're in for a lot of days like this. I suspect they will all get back on track sooner than later. Well except maybe Barkley.. It's tough to imagine his running style holding up on that surgically repaired knee.. But I guess it worked for Peterson so it might work out for him.

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Cowboy Lover said:

And that is where we need a running game. A few good blocks would be nice.

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Gorgon said:

Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

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jazzcat22 said:

Or the simple fact that too many injuries has caused less continuity, and they just can't get it back yet.

And part of why Zeke had 900 yards in 2017, the corrupt NFL office suspended him for 6 games for no reason at all.

Zeke has a role, MM needs to rein in Moore and get back to the ground and pound.
I know what Moore wants to do, pass 1st, get a lead, then try to establish the run game to use clock. They still need to establish a run game early IMO.

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RonnieT24 said:

It would be fun to see for this old RB but I don't expect to ever see Zeke cut loose for a game like that as long as Moore is calling the plays. That's just not what he wants to do.

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Gorgon said:

Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

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RonnieT24 said:

Yes Tampa is stout up front.. but as I said, Zeke got positive yards on most of his carries.. Moore is going to get his chance to show he CAN exploit a lesser run defense against the Chargers.. The WFTs hit them for 126 yards and 4.7 yards a pop. Even compromised our line is at least as good as theirs and Zeke is a better back than Gibson and obviously our passing game is far superior to theirs. We know we can move the ball but we need to cash in when we get into the red zone. I think Zeke needs to be a big part of that.

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Gorgon said:

Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

Click to expand...

RonnieT24 said:

The reason we had the holding call and were passing on 3rd and 6 was because we passed on first down coming out of the two minute warning .. If we get that 4 yard run from Zeke on first down instead of 2nd then not only do we eat up more clock and one of their timeouts we now have the options to hit them again with the run no 2nd and 6 and eat up still more clock and their last timeout. Now we have a running clock on 3rd and let's say Zeke only gets 2 on the 2nd down run.. 3rd and 4.. run it again.. they have no more timeouts.. use all 40 seconds at your disposal before taking a TO and kicking the FG. Then kick the ball to the Bucs with 40? seconds left and no timeouts left? The kickoff uses over 5 seconds.. Brady now had 35 seconds to go 40 yards into FG range. Oh and they get the 10 second runoff penalty .. so really it's 25 seconds.. Nothing is guaranteed but you have a much better chance of stopping the GOAT with 25 seconds vs a minute and 25 seconds.

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JoeKing said:

I think the WFT showed the Chargers can be run on so if Kellen doesn't take up that challenge it speaks poorly of our run game. So I'll definitely be looking for that on Sunday at SoFi. Scoring TDs every time we get into the red zone has to be a priority. Leaving points off the board is deadly.

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Gorgon said:

Many of you have touched on this in different angles but let's look at the Zeke situation this way.

2016, with the great OL of Frederick, Martin, Smith, Leary, Zeke rushed for 1600 yards.
2017 We lost Leary, replaced badly by Cooper, but added Collins at G and sometimes T. Zeke's #s fell accordingly, to 900.
2018 Frederick diagnosed with his nervous disease
2019 Zeke resigned for $90m
2020 Frederick retires.

You can condemn Jerrah all you want but there WAS a philosophy here. I think Dallas gambled and lost. They expected Frederick to be there, and, once diagnosed, thought he'd come back (which he did). They viewed this as a rushing team first, but they had to plug at least one big hole of LG---and assume Collins could hold up at RT. So far, they have not succeeded. But then Frederick was gone for good, and, as we know, Smith has had health problems.

In other words, I think a major factor in Zeke's big contract was the presumption they would have, more or less, the same OL as in 2016 and slowly, it disintegrated as a run line.

In the meantime, Moore comes in. It was abundantly clear in the loss that his scheme was NOT a bad one---from a certain perspective, that is: take exactly what the D gives you over, and over, and over. This is very "Madden-esque" except Madden would periodically heave the ball way downfield just to keep the other side honest.

Meanwhile, Zeke does nothing but block. Why? Six or seven men in the box PLUS two of the most difficult DTs in the league to run against (Donald maybe the other). Moore's philosophy in this case looked sound: you can't run, why not throw to the open guy & force them out of their scheme?

Here is my caution about the pass offense---which believe me I know is in vogue today. When we were a "running team" Dak was getting massive time on play fakes. I don't know if you recall, but he would have a LOT of time in the pocket when Zeke was a threat.

Back to the OL, despite being (so far) a terrible run blocking OL, they did pretty well in pass protection. No, the pocket wasn't as clean as I'd like, and too many times Dak threw with people in his fact, but given that he threw on almost every play, that's understandable.

Long and short: Zeke has no role in this offense as Moore apparently has designed it. Worse, the OL can no longer run block the way the 2016 line could. The personnel is not fitting the scheme.

Click to expand...