Rule on arm moving forward

Whirlwin

Cowboy , It’s a way of life.
Messages
23,977
Reaction score
16,255
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
If the ball went backwards without the defender being the cause, then it would be a fumble. If the arm and the ball are moving forward in the process of an attempted pass, then it's considered a pass, regardless of what direction the defender causes the ball to go.
Are you sure. Because what he says makes sense. I wish someone could actually get the rulebook. I think it’s all up to the referees anyways lol Why would the ball go backwards if he wasn’t hit. I mean even if it slipped out of your hand it probably wouldn’t go backwards
 

Gaede

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,165
Reaction score
14,127
But this rule (definition of a pass) simplifies things by taking the judgement call of the ball leaving the QB's hand away from the officials, and uses the more easily apparent criterion of the arm moving forward with the ball.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot we agreed to disagree. Lol But I'm not deleting the post. :D

That is a good point. I personally just can't grapple with the fact that a throw is considered a throw before the ball is actually thrown, but I've said my piece and will leave it at that!
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,240
Reaction score
94,113
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
Are you sure. Because what he says makes sense. I wish someone could actually get the rulebook. I think it’s all up to the referees anyways lol Why would the ball go backwards if he wasn’t hit. I mean even if it slipped out of your hand it probably wouldn’t go backwards
Exactly, if the ball goes backward while the arm is moving forward, the ball or arm must've been hit. But if the arm is moving forward with the ball when the hit occurs, it's already considered a pass attempt, which negates any possibility of a fumble.
 

ultron

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,925
Reaction score
8,992
Just on common sense, it was clear that that ball was in his hand firmly and was knocked out before he released it as part of a throw. The arm was well behind the head.

I don't get that rule at all. Does someone want to explain why that SHOULD be a forward pass?
I agree I don’t think Tysom’s hand was moving forward at all - he was throwing with a 3/4 motion, elbow was coming forward but not his hand. It was a split second bang bang play but DLaw got him before his hand was moving forward.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
66,924
Reaction score
84,287
Without reading through this entire thread.. I’d need to see the play again.

Yes his arm was moving forward but wasn’t the ball still behind his head? I thought the ball had to be coming forward..?
 

SteveTheCowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,022
Reaction score
12,621
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
LOL....fans complain about officiating, but want to make a rule more complicated.

The ball went this way before the defender hand hit then the arm went that way after the the defenders hand hit then the arm went forward 3 inches behind the QB's head before the ball went the other way while the arm went forward before the defenders hand hit.

That should work great!
 

Jarntt

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
5,843
Do some of you people even read posts first?

I know what the rule says. I guess I'm asking to defend the rule. In that case there is no way that was a pass.
IMO It's a good rule. As soon as your hand starts moving forward with control you are attempting to pass the ball. It's a clear cut rule with no grey area and very easy to decide on replay which way to go. The alternative would be what? That he has to fully release the ball? So if that were the case, then even if contact was to the arm or body before release it would be a fumble? That would be open to way to many possible turnovers that shouldn't really be IMO
 

SteveTheCowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,022
Reaction score
12,621
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Without reading through this entire thread.. I’d need to see the play again.

Yes his arm was moving forward but wasn’t the ball still behind his head? I thought the ball had to be coming forward..?
Arm has to be moving forward....a throwing motion.

Yes there might be a fraction of a second for that motion to transfer to the ball...doesn't matter. Listen to what the refs always say when they make that call "the arm was moving forward". The NEVER say "the ball".
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,059
Reaction score
46,962
I think its a great example of the NFL making up a very technical rule that both defies common sense (imagine trying to understand what constitutes a catch and/or fumble as a layperson) and puts more power in the officials hands to affect the game.

I really don't care about this particular rule, to be honest. I am trying to make a point that the NFL, overall, employs many nonsensical rules that only make sense because they consistently employ them, and that these overly technical, nonsensical rules degrade the quality of the game.
Absolutely not true.

This is an utterly logical rule. Once again, I'm trying to comprehend how you don't see it.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,240
Reaction score
94,113
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
I agree I don’t think Tysom’s hand was moving forward at all - he was throwing with a 3/4 motion, elbow was coming forward but not his hand. It was a split second bang bang play but DLaw got him before his hand was moving forward.
Seriously? How can you look at the video and say the hand (and therefore the ball) wasn't moving forward?
 

ultron

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,925
Reaction score
8,992
Seriously? How can you look at the video and say the hand (and therefore the ball) wasn't moving forward?
The ball went backwards and his hand was at the peak of his motion - it wasn’t moving forward because of his weird throwing motion, his hand was literally at a neutral position about to move forward but like I said it was a split second call and I mean like .01 seconds later his hand would’ve indeed been moving forward.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,224
Reaction score
26,819
The ball went backwards and his hand was at the peak of his motion - it wasn’t moving forward because of his weird throwing motion, his hand was literally at a neutral position about to move forward but like I said it was a split second call and I mean like .01 seconds later his hand would’ve indeed been moving forward.
I agree its a fumble. ball was out before any forward motion happened..perspective.
 

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff
Messages
50,240
Reaction score
94,113
CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
The ball went backwards and his hand was at the peak of his motion - it wasn’t moving forward because of his weird throwing motion, his hand was literally at a neutral position about to move forward but like I said it was a split second call and I mean like .01 seconds later his hand would’ve indeed been moving forward.
Have you even looked at the video in this thread? The ball moves at least 8" forward before contact. The only way it could be any clearer is if there were a ruler behind it.
 

ultron

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,925
Reaction score
8,992
Have you even looked at the video in this thread? The ball moves at least 8" forward before contact. The only way it could be any clearer is if there were a ruler behind it.
I’ve looked at it frame by frame and I’m telling you his HAND was not moving forward - his arm was but not his hand. If his hand was moving forward the ball would’ve at least went forward slightly; which it didn’t.
 

Vtwin

Safety third
Messages
8,079
Reaction score
10,959
I was pretty sure that was going to be ruled as arm moving forward while seeing it in real time.

The officials got it right.
 
Top