We need to stop overrating the offensive talent here

Doomsday101

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It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.


To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:
  • WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
    • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
    • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
    • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
    • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
  • OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
    • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
    • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
    • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
    • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
  • RB and QB-
    • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.
Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.

I think they are a talented group who failed to get the job done. I also think there are some weakness on offense that needs to be addressed. I would not say we have HOF players through out the offense but by and large in comparison to other teams around the league, Yes I think we are every much as talented and falls to the coaches to get the most out of the talent.
 

Whirlwin

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most fans understand this. Then you have those that wanna use it as an excuse for Prescott. So they can say it’s just him that sucks
 

Whirlwin

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I think they are a talented group who failed to get the job done. I also think there are some weakness on offense that needs to be addressed. I would not say we have HOF players through out the offense but by and large in comparison to other teams around the league, Yes I think we are every much as talented and falls to the coaches to get the most out of the talent.
You’re only as good as the scheme, the position you’re put in . Good or bad. Coaching should make up the difference to put you in the right position to still win. Play the game to the ability of your players. I haven’t seen it yet.
 

Whirlwin

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I think if Devante Adams and Cooper switched teams, their stats would be reversed. The person throwing the ball has the biggest impact on a receivers performance. Put Cooper Kupp with Dak and his numbers would be pedestrian.

You wouldn’t be more wrong in this circumstance. For example Patrick Mahomes. Eight men in the backfield they flooded the passing lanes. He had nowhere to throw the ball. Plus he had all day which Prescott doesn’t.
 

fivetwos

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A team can't ask Schultz to run block at all......and any team that thinks he has some sort of gifted hands ought to look at the Carolina game.

Ran up numbers as a Dak safety valve.

But.....pay away NFL....I'd love a 4th round comp in return.
 

buddahjoe445

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You wouldn’t be more wrong in this circumstance. For example Patrick Mahomes. Eight men in the backfield they flooded the passing lanes. He had nowhere to throw the ball. Plus he had all day which Prescott doesn’t.[/QUOTE
Teams didn't need to put 8 in coverage against Dak. They knew Dak couldn't process fast enough and dared him to beat their coverage so they rushed more instead. This was the game plan for most teams against Dak. Also, Mahomes moves well in and out of the pocket to buy time. Dak moves into sacks and has terrible pocket presence.
 

CouchCoach

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I think they are a talented group who failed to get the job done. I also think there are some weakness on offense that needs to be addressed. I would not say we have HOF players through out the offense but by and large in comparison to other teams around the league, Yes I think we are every much as talented and falls to the coaches to get the most out of the talent.
Interesting what Belichick and Saban have to say about that coaching v talent. Give them the talent every time.

I think it is an excuse used about coaching. Do we think the OLC coaches players to jump the gun or the DLC coached Gregory to lineup offsides or the WRC coaches drops and running sloppy patterns or the TEC can't get the TE to block better?

The difference between the coaching acumen of these men is marginal, they all use the same techniques from the same book of coaching. The difference in the talent levels is much wider than the coaching. Which is why the star rating system is used to grade recruiting classes and why AL, UGA, OU, OSU drive the boat and Clemson did until the recruiting slipped.

The real myth is that coaches can motivate players. They can demotivate them more effectively than motivate them because that comes from within. Take Micah Parsons, Quinn might get some credit for him but not from me. I saw him at Penn State and that guy was already there.

Did the OLC create the first OL to make All Pro as a rookie since 1947 or did Zach Martin arrive ready to go? On the reverse, was the WRC ever able to get Bryant to run the routes and not be the 50/50 beast? No, many coaches tried. They had to work with his natural inclination.

A most interesting comment I've heard from a coach was from Belichick about Lawrence Taylor, he didn't coach him, he modified his defense around him.
 

Bobhaze

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Most under Rate them....that's why they are always crying that the get paid to much.
I rate talent very simply- what has it given us in playoff results?

For example- if the US Olympic track team was talked about as one of the “most talented” in the the Olympics, yet when it came to winning medals, won ZERO- would it still be considered the “most talented”?
 

Cboyfan4ever

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You wouldn’t be more wrong in this circumstance. For example Patrick Mahomes. Eight men in the backfield they flooded the passing lanes. He had nowhere to throw the ball. Plus he had all day which Prescott doesn’t.
He had all day because he uses his mobility to create time and some very good pocket awareness.
 

JonesBoys

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Schultz is a nice player with good value where he was drafted, but I still think he's just an average TE.

Good hands, awful blocker, and he just doesn't stretch the field. He's not going to threaten a defense with route running and yards after the catch the way that Kelce or Andrews does. He's the perfect player to pick up 8 yards.

And I think La'el's biggest issue is between his ears. He was our best run blocker all season and it isn't even close.


They can easily find a tight end like him in this draft for a lot less than what he is going to get paid.
 

JonesBoys

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It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.


To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:
  • WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
    • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
    • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
    • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
    • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
  • OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
    • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
    • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
    • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
    • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
  • RB and QB-
    • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.
Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.



OC was also way overrated and in over his head as well.
 

75boyz

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CaptainCrash said one time and I agreed, it's as if Jerry thinks "If we just pay them more, maybe we'll win."

Second Contract Syndrome.

Zeke was the only one of the big 5 that actually had numbers to back up a pay raise. NOT to the crazy numbers agreed to, but at least his production backed him up to that point.

Dak, Cooper, Lawrence and Jaylon, who's since been cut, and Zeke again, who has fallen off a cliff, should never have come close to the contracts they were given based on production.

Another Jones trick at trying to convince the avg. fan that the GM is supplying the top notch talent cuz why are they getting paid so much if they're not top notch?

Hmmmm.
A conundrum I tell ya.

Or maybe a pretty vicious cycle and pattern of behavior.

Remember it ain't his fault for no trophies.
He's supplyin' all the talent.
How many coaches could win a trophy again with all that talent Jerry's supplyin? lol
jmo
 
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Doomsday101

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Interesting what Belichick and Saban have to say about that coaching v talent. Give them the talent every time.

I think it is an excuse used about coaching. Do we think the OLC coaches players to jump the gun or the DLC coached Gregory to lineup offsides or the WRC coaches drops and running sloppy patterns or the TEC can't get the TE to block better?

The difference between the coaching acumen of these men is marginal, they all use the same techniques from the same book of coaching. The difference in the talent levels is much wider than the coaching. Which is why the star rating system is used to grade recruiting classes and why AL, UGA, OU, OSU drive the boat and Clemson did until the recruiting slipped.

The real myth is that coaches can motivate players. They can demotivate them more effectively than motivate them because that comes from within. Taken Micah Parsons, Quinn might get some credit for him but not from me. I saw him at Penn State and that guy was already there.

Did the OLC create the first OL to make All Pro as a rookie since 1947 or did Zach Martin arrive ready to go? On the reverse, was the WRC ever able to get Bryant to run the routes and not be the 50/50 beast? No, many coaches tried. They had to work with his natural inclination.

Coaches can put players in situations where they have a better chance to thrive I think for Parson it is easy to get motivated when you believe in what you are doing and Quinn helped create that atmosphere, how coaches interact with their players can create enthusiasm. Jimmy Johnson once said he never treated players the same because how you motivate or get through to 1 player may be different that how you motivate another. Leon Lett made some bonehead moves but Jimmy never came down as hard on his as he would someone else because he knew and understood Letts personality and how best to get the most out of him. Jimmy went on to say some guys you have to kick in the butt to get through to them, others you don't. Ultimately the player himself has to go out and actually do the job, the player himself has to put in the work and self discipline. Do I think this team on offense has the talent to win? Yes . I can see talent and weakness on both of these SB contestants and I think Cowboys do have very good talent.
 

Aven8

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I think they have lots of talent, it’s just not being used properly. This is the same song and dance we’ve gone though through the Romo years as well. The Cowboys need a new offense. They’ve been in the same offense for well over 10 years.

Using Lamb and Coop on comebacks is just ridiculous.
 

Ekspozed

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It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.


To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:
  • WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
    • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
    • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
    • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
    • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
  • OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
    • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
    • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
    • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
    • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
  • RB and QB-
    • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.
Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.
If you compare our offensive talent vs each team one by one, there are not many that have more talent than us.
 

Aftershock

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I rate talent very simply- what has it given us in playoff results?

For example- if the US Olympic track team was talked about as one of the “most talented” in the the Olympics, yet when it came to winning medals, won ZERO- would it still be considered the “most talented”?
Results = Talent + Execution

You can have all the talent (natural-born ability) in the world but if you don't execute (poor game plan, injuries, nervousness, etc.) it means nothing
Lebron James, Steph Curry, Luka Doncic - The most talented NBA players of the current generation yet failed to win a ring last season.

The Cowboys O is highly talented (relative to the rest of the league) yet they failed to execute in the playoffs.
 

NoLuv4Jerry

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It has been said for far too long that the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. It’s especially been said by Jerry and Stephen. I’m not here to say that this team is not talented. We certainly have some talent.

But I’m of the opinion that talent should be measured by what it accomplishes for your team. Whatever level of talent we have had the last 5 years has translated into 1 wild card playoff win under two different coaching staffs. TALENT SHOULD BE MEASURED BY THE RESULTS IT GIVES. If all we get is an occasional divisional “title” is that great?

We fans love our team and our players. But sometimes we have to take off the fan glasses and see things as they really are.


To avoid having a super long post, here are just some examples on offense of overrated talent here:
  • WR’S and TE’s one of the best groups in the NFL? Let’s tap the brakes.
    • Amari Cooper- he’s certainly a talented receiver. And he’s paid like it. But the last 9 games of the season he avg about 45 yds per game. Why do we think paying Cooper all that money “is worth it”? What did it translate to? He’s good but he’s not consistent to pay him top dollar IMO.
    • Cedee Lamb had a statistically good year last year, but his drops are nearly league leading. He gets lazy at times and had several lapses in focus in the playoff game against the niners that cost us dearly. He needs to improve a lot to be called “great”.
    • Michael Gallup missed most of the season with an injury and was re-injured at the end of the season. I love Gallup, but he wasn’t there for most of the season. Probably gone anyway.
    • Dalton Schultz- a good but not great TE who will probably command more in FA than we can pay. Blake Jarwin? Unless we’re playing the giants, he’s a spare.
  • OL- too many TV people and PFF people act like this is a top 5 OL. It isn’t.
    • Tyron Smith- the once greatest player on this team has turned into a constant injury waiting to happen. He’s missed a whopping 32 games the last 5 seasons, and hasn’t played a full season since 2015. We need to stop pretending this is working.
    • Tyler Biadz- gets manhandled on a regular basis. Thankfully, Connor “Holding” Williams will be gone next year. But Biadz either needs more help if he’s going stay at C.
    • La’El Collins- like Smith has missed a ton of games- some to injury some to his own stupidity. But he’s not been that great at RT. Maybe he could play LG again as he did back in 2016. But he either needs to get better or we say adios.
    • Zack Martin is still great. But he alone doesn’t make this a great OL.
  • RB and QB-
    • Zeke Elliott- the highest paid RB in the league is killing the cap, barely producing any kind of reliable yardage and just looks old and slow. Tony Pollard should have had more snaps last year but the Jones family sees him as a family member not a football player on their team. He needs to be released.
    • Dak- I’m not a Dak “hater”. I still think he’s capable of leading this team to a SB. Lots of QBs with less talent have already done it. But he’s never going to be a “carry the team on his back” kind of QB.
Bottom line Cowboys fans: This offense’s talent is seriously overrated. We need to seriously upgrade the OL, shave some cap space off the WR and RB positions and draft some guys that can help immediately. Dak’s contract will be restructured.
Great post. I would be OK with Coopers mediocre numbers if it was opening up the game for other playmakers...but we do not have anybody that could take a 10 yard pass like Tyrek Hill did and take it to the house 60+ yards

Cee Dee Lamb is a 1st round pick....he should not need the "presence" of an Amari Cooper to "get off". He is not fast. His mythical legendary YAC is a reputation he earned against college kids...have not seen it at the pros. And he has a lot of drops. I would take Deebo Samules over him any day.

I think La'el Collins has the physical traits to be top 5 at his postion...just not the commitment, focus and discipline. I think I read him and Dak are pretty close of the field...well part of the money Dak is being paid is for him to get the best out of the players in the lockeroom...especiall the ones that are supposed to block for him. Tyron Smith is top 10...he has a 2 good years left...but people need to STOP acting like he is the best in the league. In fact, there has been all of this HOF talk...and sorry....I don't see it...HOF based on what?

The LG and C are so bad that it brings the entire foundation of this offense down. Especially against good teams. There is a reason people picked SF to win...and being soft up the middle on BOTH lines is why. And good coaches like Kyle Shanahann went to work exposing it over and over and over....

Zeke used to be top 3 in the NFL...he is beat up and is barely serviceable. His contract is what it is at this point. He should not carry the ball more than 15 times a game...especially if you want him to last the season and 3 or 4 games in the playoffs. Pollard is not enough either. The RB position needs to be re-thought in Dallas. With 17 games and lack of a 1st round bye...you have to think 3 RBs. And you cannot have 3 RBs if one of your RB is the highest paid in the NFL.

Dak is what he is. His ceiling is Russell Wilson. That is good enough to win IF....IF....you have good coaching (Pete Carroll)...good defense (Legion of Boom) and a solid running game (Marshawn Lynch). Mike McCarthy is NOTHING as a head coach if you ask me. Our defense is not close to being Legion of Boom (not nearly physical enough)....and Zeke is a shell of himself. If this is what we need to win with Dak...we are a LOT farther away than people think. Especially since it is clear we are going to run it back with MM. Piling up stats against the NFC East and other losing teams tricked us into thinking we were better than we were.

Postseason represents the best coaches and gameplans in the NFL. We don't have enough of either to win 4 consecutive games. Too undisciplined. Too soft. And a waste at head coach.
 
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