Why the “We like our Guys” mantra is killing this team

Bobhaze said:

How many times have we heard the lazy voice of Stephen Jones answer a softball question on his “radio show” regarding roster changes with the tired phrase, “We like our guys”…?

Why is this such a bad statement from an NFL team’s front office? Because teams winning SBs are usually kings of the “roster churn”- the constant evaluation of its talent to cut free from those that don’t absolutely make your team better and avoid fond connections with players because you like them.

In short, good NFL front office people don’t over-value their own players or they lose their jobs! They have a few years to win playoff games or find a new address. Nothing motivates talent evaluation like job security.

Well, here’s some clear evidence that this Jones front office over-values its own players:

• The NFL average retention of their own drafted players is 23.
• The last 53 man roster of the 2021 Cowboys contained 30 players that had been originally drafted by the Cowboys, including several on their second contracts. That’s a lot more than most teams. And it could have been higher if we hadn’t released Jaylon Smith and his bloated contract this last fall.
• For some comparisons, last year’s SB champs the Buccaneers only had 19 of its 53 man roster retained from its drafts.
• It’s good to have successful draft picks. But you should NOT re-sign marginal players to second contracts that are just ok.

That means that the avg NFL team does not retain as many of its drafted players as the Cowboys do. The Cowboys sign more of their drafted players to second contracts than almost all other NFL teams.

“We like our guys” is a sadly honest statement from the Jones Boys. If your name is Jones and you work in the Cowboys front office, there are no consequences for “liking the wrong guys”.

In Big D- “We like our guys”- Therefore the roster churn is very, very slow. As are the playoff wins.

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Early post of the weekend

Reality said:

For me it is more about moving on from players that cannot stay on the field or no longer play like they once did.

Players like Sean Lee, Jason Witten, Jaylon Smith, etc. were kept much longer than they should have been.

The Cowboys need to start realizing that player loyalty does not win Super Bowls, good and reliable players do.

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The constant contract extensions and conversions are a part of this. We get guys who can't be cut to save money early.

Bobhaze said:

How many times have we heard the lazy voice of Stephen Jones answer a softball question on his “radio show” regarding roster changes with the tired phrase, “We like our guys”…?

Why is this such a bad statement from an NFL team’s front office? Because teams winning SBs are usually kings of the “roster churn”- the constant evaluation of its talent to cut free from those that don’t absolutely make your team better and avoid fond connections with players because you like them.

In short, good NFL front office people don’t over-value their own players or they lose their jobs! They have a few years to win playoff games or find a new address. Nothing motivates talent evaluation like job security.

Well, here’s some clear evidence that this Jones front office over-values its own players:

• The NFL average retention of their own drafted players is 23.
• The last 53 man roster of the 2021 Cowboys contained 30 players that had been originally drafted by the Cowboys, including several on their second contracts. That’s a lot more than most teams. And it could have been higher if we hadn’t released Jaylon Smith and his bloated contract this last fall.
• For some comparisons, last year’s SB champs the Buccaneers only had 19 of its 53 man roster retained from its drafts.
• It’s good to have successful draft picks. But you should NOT re-sign marginal players to second contracts that are just ok.

That means that the avg NFL team does not retain as many of its drafted players as the Cowboys do. The Cowboys sign more of their drafted players to second contracts than almost all other NFL teams.

“We like our guys” is a sadly honest statement from the Jones Boys. If your name is Jones and you work in the Cowboys front office, there are no consequences for “liking the wrong guys”.

In Big D- “We like our guys”- Therefore the roster churn is very, very slow. As are the playoff wins.

Click to expand...

Jerry Jones has a severe emotional attachment to his money, so when he gives it to players on his football team, he develops an emotional attachment to them as well.

I made this point in another thread but I think it rings true here.

The LA Rams made the SB two years ago. They are back this year. But gone is their drafted QB and drafted RB.
Gurley was an easy cut after his knee, but they figured out Goff had peaked and realized he couldn't get over the hump they needed.

I can never see that happening in Dallas. If Romo or Dak ever made the SB, they would ride either one till the end of time.
They overhype their own, and overpay their own.

A year or so before the recent re-signings and when Dak and Zeke were on their rookie deals Stephen would go on and on about not wanting to overpay outside talent, but wanted to make sure they could keep their core players. Sounds good in theory, that is if you know which talent is overhyped, and if those players are the ones are currently on your team.

They rushed to re-sign Jaylon. Caved to a RB in Zeke, dragged out the Law deal and still paid him top dollar, etc... They convinced themselves early on Dak was their QB, yet dragged out the contract process for a position that gets the bigger pay spikes in the league. Neither one IMO can look at player personnel as a business. Ended up paying Cooper market price for a #1 receiver as well.

The only deals they haven't gotten burned on are the deals that actually matched the talent of the players.
Which were the deals given to the offensive line. Smith, Martin, Frederick(damn gbs). But it was obvious those players were top 3 at their position and had no weaknesses or work ethic issues.

At least someone likes our guys.

Agreed. Until you’ve won the superbowl, I want to hear,
We need to improve this staff and roster, not “we like our guys” Who gives a $&!? About who they like.

The Rams would 100% not be in the Super Bowl right now if they ran their organization by the "We like our guys" philosophy.

Jerry and Stephen are doofuses that will never see another championship unless they somehow dumb luck their way into it.

Bobhaze said:

How many times have we heard the lazy voice of Stephen Jones answer a softball question on his “radio show” regarding roster changes with the tired phrase, “We like our guys”…?

Why is this such a bad statement from an NFL team’s front office? Because teams winning SBs are usually kings of the “roster churn”- the constant evaluation of its talent to cut free from those that don’t absolutely make your team better and avoid fond connections with players because you like them.

In short, good NFL front office people don’t over-value their own players or they lose their jobs! They have a few years to win playoff games or find a new address. Nothing motivates talent evaluation like job security.

Well, here’s some clear evidence that this Jones front office over-values its own players:

• The NFL average retention of their own drafted players is 23.
• The last 53 man roster of the 2021 Cowboys contained 30 players that had been originally drafted by the Cowboys, including several on their second contracts. That’s a lot more than most teams. And it could have been higher if we hadn’t released Jaylon Smith and his bloated contract this last fall.
• For some comparisons, last year’s SB champs the Buccaneers only had 19 of its 53 man roster retained from its drafts.
• It’s good to have successful draft picks. But you should NOT re-sign marginal players to second contracts that are just ok.

That means that the avg NFL team does not retain as many of its drafted players as the Cowboys do. The Cowboys sign more of their drafted players to second contracts than almost all other NFL teams.

“We like our guys” is a sadly honest statement from the Jones Boys. If your name is Jones and you work in the Cowboys front office, there are no consequences for “liking the wrong guys”.

In Big D- “We like our guys”- Therefore the roster churn is very, very slow. As are the playoff wins.

Click to expand...

Well done Bob. The more important or bigger question is why do we like our guys? I believe there’s multiple reasons why.

Therein lies potentially the conundrum into some of our core causes of less success and why it’s been a conflict of interest wearing both hats for ownership to also be making personnel decisions.

There are two major problems with how the Cowboys manage their team.

One is ego. Ego drive and strength are necessary but when the ego becomes too involved, mistakes are made.

I have done this. My desire to keep an employee because I had hired them only served to create two more problems. I still had that employee and had sent a message to my other employees, the ones I really valued, of where my standards were.

Second, and this is a huge problem, they care more about how it looks than what it does. The owner is so image conscious and so concerned with sizzle that he fails to spend as much time on the steak. And he spends too much of his cap on the sizzle.

I do not think he even looks at this as a football team. It is an entertainment phenom that attracts the most attention without really having to do anything, just perform for the audience.

And look at the proof he has. The GOAT and best QB in the league are fighting it out for the MVP but Prescott's slump takes center stage. That playoff loss still has more sizzle than the Bengals win.

These egomaniacs don't just like our guys, they like everything "ours".

JW82 said:

Agreed. Until you’ve won the superbowl, I want to hear,
We need to improve this staff and roster, not “we like our guys” Who gives a $&!? About who they like.

Click to expand...

Spot on, we'd prefer a good GM like our guys. They act like they are actually qualified to be dismissive on the topic....the nepotism doesn't make for great awareness.

CouchCoach said:

There are two major problems with how the Cowboys manage their team.

One is ego. Ego drive and strength are necessary but when the ego becomes too involved, mistakes are made.

I have done this. My desire to keep an employee because I had hired them only served to create two more problems. I still had that employee and had sent a message to my other employees, the ones I really valued, of where my standards were.

Second, and this is a huge problem, they care more about how it looks than what it does. The owner is so image conscious and so concerned with sizzle that he fails to spend as much time on the steak. And he spends too much of his cap on the sizzle.

I do not think he even looks at this as a football team. It is an entertainment phenom that attracts the most attention without really having to do anything, just perform for the audience.

And look at the proof he has. The GOAT and best QB in the league are fighting it out for the MVP but Prescott's slump takes center stage. That playoff loss still has more sizzle than the Bengals win.

These egomaniacs don't just like our guys, they like everything "ours".

Click to expand...

Yep

That’s a big part of it . Maybe biggest part. It goes back to that “ interesting and relative “ bar our owner has stated.

His ego drives wanting to prove his guys are worthy of his selection and backing . And his guys sell jerseys , merchandise and hope promoting his iconic label.

Not to mention it’s just easier for him to retain this relevancy with his guys and not risking his poor eye finding as good of replacements . Which means it’s lazy for a part time GM who doesn’t spend time watching film, etc.

john van brocklin said:

Would like to hire you as GM of the Cowboys
Are you interested?

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That’s kind of you to say but I would be terrible. The difference between me and Jerry is I know I’m not qualified.

Bobhaze said:

That’s kind of you to say but I would be terrible. The difference between me and Jerry is I know I’m not qualified.

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The real difference between you and jerry is that you are not sloppy drunk by noon on most days.

The root of this is what makes it so hard to remedy.

I don't think the Joneses try to fool themselves, I think they actually think their guys are fine, they've done their job.

Booger has taken shots at his coaching staff for years. Remember when Owens started in on Garrett as the possible problem with his usage in the offense? Booger's response when asked about that "I have no problem with that".

He has questioned sideline decisions after a game openly. No other owner or GM does this, it's why they don't talk to the media, especially right after a loss. They're concerned with what they might say and the effect on their team. But not him, he could care less about backing his coaches unless that has a specific purpose.

What did he keep coming back to when he was keeping Garrett? Comfortable, I am comfortable with Jason. He was also comfortable with the results so stow that "he wants to win" stuff. All of the evidence is to the contrary.

If we’re being real. Jerry should be regarded as the worst g.m. in NFL history. And no one even comes close.

rnr_honeybadger said:

The real difference between you and jerry is that you are not sloppy drunk by noon on most days.

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Lol…at least until 6 PM for me.

Seriously, one of the inherent flaws in this entire organizational set up is the flawed thinking that the ability to make loads of cash makes a person also have ability in everything else. Jerry is a great businessman. But he’s obviously not at all very good as a pro football manager of personnel. His spawn may be even worse.

This idiotic philosophy is based on some delusion that we somehow have the best possible talent at any given spot and that it can't be further improved. Which anyone with half a brain would realize is a stupid stupid stupid claim. Look at the consistently best teams in the league - the Pats are a perfect template for this. Their roster is consistently being churned, there are not giant contracts given to running backs and wide receivers. They back fill these positions with free agents and the draft and they make damn sure that their defense is competitive as hell. Just think that the Pats made it to the playoffs with a rookie QB in what really should have been sort of a rebuild year for them. That's how you essentially run a team in the cap era to have continuous success. Jerry and his idiot son meanwhile are still living in the 90's where he thinks that just have a QB, RB and WR and you will win.

Bobhaze said:

Lol…at least until 6 PM for me.

Seriously, one of the inherent flaws in this entire organizational set up is the flawed thinking that the ability to make loads of cash makes a person also have ability in everything else. Jerry is a great businessman. But he’s obviously not at all very good as a pro football manager of personnel. His spawn may be even worse.

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Yep, I will always say that Jerry is a terrific PR guy. Possibly one of the best. That is where his strength lays. But sadly he fancies himself to be a football guy who is hell bent on proving that coaching somehow does not matter.

rnr_honeybadger said:

This idiotic philosophy is based on some delusion that we somehow have the best possible talent at any given spot and that it can't be further improved. Which anyone with half a brain would realize is a stupid stupid stupid claim. Look at the consistently best teams in the league - the Pats are a perfect template for this. Their roster is consistently being churned, there are not giant contracts given to running backs and wide receivers. They back fill these positions with free agents and the draft and they make damn sure that their defense is competitive as hell. Just think that the Pats made it to the playoffs with a rookie QB in what really should have been sort of a rebuild year for them. That's how you essentially run a team in the cap era to have continuous success. Jerry and his idiot son meanwhile are still living in the 90's where he thinks that just have a QB, RB and WR and you will win.

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Well said. I can think of multiple examples of teams that cut ties with a talented player earlier than expected because they saw that they weren’t going to get better:

• The great Richard Sherman- probably a HOFer- was released by the Seahawks knowing that he still had some years left in the league. But they needed to save cap space by cutting ties and did.
  
• The pats released their great S Lawyer Milloy after winning a SB because they knew he had peaked. He was a great player who had no where to go but down.
  
• Wes Welker- the pats WR who had been such a great slot receiver for Brady was released because of cap space. He went on to play well for Denver a couple of years. The pats then elevated Julian Edelman who would have never emerged without releasing Welker.

This list could go on and on….

Good thread and I will add to this:

By talking up his own players, Jerry is giving a sales pitch to the fans to buy tickets. He is ALSO giving a sales pitch to the player's agents and opposing teams. As a result, Dallas' players get overvalued. That means they either get too large of a contract based on their skill OR get picked off by another team.

Quite frankly, this process is one of the biggest long term drags on the team.

Jerry should be saying "we don't like our guys" or at least, be more honest about faults and problems.