Is a culture of accountability that hard?

CowboysFaninHouston

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I don't disagree but it is much harder to replace players than employee at a normal business. Jimmy brought discipline but if you go back Jimmy never cut a top player because of a mistake. Jimmy did not bench Emmitt when he would fall asleep during meetings. There is a bit of a balancing act where teams can't bench talent and with limited roster only so much you can do. For instance Cowboys tried to bench Williams and replace him, however replacement faired worse. As for contracts market sets values so if you plan on keeping guys until their rookie contract is up then release them the other alternative is pay them.
diod Emmitt fall sleep during a meeting? that team of the 90s had great leadership in the players and Jimmy knew that and leaned on them. him cutting a player wasn't a message to Emmitt or Aikman, it was a message to middle level and lower level players. He understood what he will get out of his top players, but also knew he needed those middle level and lower level players to do their part.
 

Doomsday101

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diod Emmitt fall sleep during a meeting? that team of the 90s had great leadership in the players and Jimmy knew that and leaned on them. him cutting a player wasn't a message to Emmitt or Aikman, it was a message to middle level and lower level players. He understood what he will get out of his top players, but also knew he needed those middle level and lower level players to do their part.

according to Emmitt and Irvin yes pretty much all the time. I understand why Jimmy cut mid level players but I also know if you have on your roster say 4 OG, 1 starting on the right side and left leaves 2 backups, so you take out Williams because of issues and the results are less than before you faces choices during the seasons where you have few options. Jimmy had no cap to deal with so unless there is something blatant like what we saw in Tampa with Brown walking off the field in the middle of a game, there is not much a team can do. You bench Williams to make a point but in the end you get poor play, it is like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I read Jimmy book in which he talks about dealing with players that not every player will respond the same way, so while player A may need a swift kick in the butt, player B may not respond positively. Lett was an example he used, he never got down on Lett even with stupid things Lett did, because he knew Lett and knew coming down on him would not benefit him and he would not respond to it, the object is to get the most out of the player, he knew the talent was there and knew which button to push to get the most out of him.
 

kskboys

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For many years now, Cowboys fans have sung the same refrain of complaint: Jerry is ruining the team, the players are not accountable, there's no discipline, if only Jimmy were still here, etc.

The confusing thing is - none of this accountability part sounds hard at all. It sounds like Management 101 stuff.

If a player keeps playing badly, cut or demote him.

If a player has bad off the field issues, cut him.

Keep churning the bottom of the roster; someone who's undrafted or a 7th-rounder may still be a diamond in the rough, like Romo.

Don't insist on starting someone just because he's a first rounder or paid a lot.

Structure all contracts to the benefit of the team, not the player.

Reward the lunch pail, blue collar type of guy. Draft and sign those guys.

Ditch the prima donna guys.

All of this is stuff that any business undergrad student or casual Zoner on this board could come up with. Is it so hard that an NFL head coach - one of only 32 in the whole nation - can't?
Your last line points directly at the problem. It is not up to the HC.
 

ChronicCowboy

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Where in larger society do you see people being held accountable these days? The days of being held to account are over…for now at least.
 

ICP

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This thing has been broken for over 25 years. Sure we've had a team or three that did well during the regular season but it usually ends up in another one and done playoff embarrassment. To me, you have to look at the top of the food chain in the Owner(s)/GM who are supposed to be responsible for putting all the pieces together so a team can achieve success. Many will say it's not Jerry/Stephens's fault because it's the coaches that call the games and the players that make (or don't make) the plays. Have we had good players during this period of ineptitude? Of course we have. Have we had good coaches? To me, that's questionable as far as Head Coach goes but I suppose you could say that maybe Parcells was good. Jerry might be a brilliant businessman but his track record since Jimmy left is filled with bad coaching choices and tons of bad contracts handed out to players. He also seems to have a sentimentality that causes him to keep people around beyond their expiration date. This has gotten soo bad that the Cowboy's playoff success rate in that time span is on a level with teams like Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago. That is what has become of our once-proud organization. During that time many good players and many coaches both Head and assistant have come and gone but only one constant has remained, our ownership and GM. People make fun of teams like Detroit and Cleveland for their years and ineptitude which is primarily directed at how poorly they are run. I don't see how anyone can point in any other direction for the reason this team fails to be relevant anymore. When your team can't hold the GM accountable for poor performance how will anyone else be held accountable?
 
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ClappingCarrot

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Where in larger society do you see people being held accountable these days? The days of being held to account are over…for now at least.
Times have changed.

You're far more likely to be held accountable for things you say rather than things you do (unless you outrightly break the law or something).
 

MyFairLady

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Those guys won superbowls. Hold out all you want. Sleep through meetings all you want. Go to nightclubs all you want. They are gods and will always be heroes to me.

These guys hold out, show up unprepared, get in trouble off the field, basically all the same stuff only they don't win jack. That makes you a turd.
 

CowboyFrog

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Jerry only puts them in the uniform. The coaches and player determine what happens in the field. When its the same couple guys always jumping offsides, and holding, its time to let them go. The pot head has had boneheaded plays in almost every important game he has been in. It is time for him go.

Ok this whole statement actually points to Jerry, if you think Gregory's a problem and its because of his accountability....shouldn't the GM snuffed this years ago? You cant say "Jerry gave him a chance and he blew it by.....being who he has been the whole time". Again, Jerry undermines the HC's , Jerry picks the coordinators, Jerry says who will play....these things are not made up they are actually things that can be proven. If your companies owner called you and set your pay then basically said if you need anything call me not your direct boss...how much you gonna listen to your direct boss?
 

Vtwin

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Jerry deserves all the criticism he gets but it all doesn't land entirely at his feet.

As involved as he is, he is still removed from the locker room to a large extent. It is certainly possible for a legit leader(s) to step up and demand that accountability from his teammates. This leader(s) obviously doesn't have the power to make changes like Jerry does but he/they can certainly create an environment of 'you're with us or against us' which will shine the spotlight on those that aren't 'with us' and force change.

You've got to have the right mentality from the top but you also need that mentality coming from the locker room.
 

CowboyFrog

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Jerry deserves all the criticism he gets but it all doesn't land entirely at his feet.

As involved as he is, he is still removed from the locker room to a large extent. It is certainly possible for a legit leader(s) to step up and demand that accountability from his teammates. This leader(s) obviously doesn't have the power to make changes like Jerry does but he/they can certainly create an environment of 'you're with us or against us' which will shine the spotlight on those that aren't 'with us' and force change.

You've got to have the right mentality from the top but you also need that mentality coming from the locker room.


I think what most are saying is the mentality at the top will eventually ruin the one in the locker room, Ive said it before, once a core group fails here it needs to move on because comming back from multiple failures in this franchise is impossible...example the last 26 years.
 

Vtwin

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I think what most are saying is the mentality at the top will eventually ruin the one in the locker room, Ive said it before, once a core group fails here it needs to move on because comming back from multiple failures in this franchise is impossible...example the last 26 years.
Agreed.

It would be fascinating to see a core of Aikman, Irvin and Smith three years into their careers under the current dynamic. I wonder if they would even want to sign their first big contract with this organization after seeing the state of the union. I don't think they would be as passive about many things as the current locker room leaders appear to be.
 

CowboyFrog

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Agreed.

It would be fascinating to see a core of Aikman, Irvin and Smith three years into their careers under the current dynamic. I wonder if they would even want to sign their first big contract with this organization after seeing the state of the union. I don't think they would be as passive about many things as the current locker room leaders appear to be.

Aikman would not because he was not...he washed his hands of this once it turned into the Jerry show. He has since continued to say Jerry will not win this way.
 

Blake

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I remember when Bill Parcells came in and removed the star logo from the helmets of rookies and thinking it was rather silly.

Now I wish they would do that for every player on the team at the start of training camp and only the players who earn (by their play, not their contract) their way on the roster get it back.

Stuff like that usually has a positive morale outcome on members in a "paramilitary" like environment.

Our first weeks of bootcamp, we were made to dress like special needs children until the DIs slowly allowed us to fix our uniforms to appear more like marines by the end of it. lol.
 

Jake

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For many years now, Cowboys fans have sung the same refrain of complaint: Jerry is ruining the team, the players are not accountable, there's no discipline, if only Jimmy were still here, etc.

The confusing thing is - none of this accountability part sounds hard at all. It sounds like Management 101 stuff.

If a player keeps playing badly, cut or demote him.

If a player has bad off the field issues, cut him.

Keep churning the bottom of the roster; someone who's undrafted or a 7th-rounder may still be a diamond in the rough, like Romo.

Don't insist on starting someone just because he's a first rounder or paid a lot.

Structure all contracts to the benefit of the team, not the player.

Reward the lunch pail, blue collar type of guy. Draft and sign those guys.

Ditch the prima donna guys.

All of this is stuff that any business undergrad student or casual Zoner on this board could come up with. Is it so hard that an NFL head coach - one of only 32 in the whole nation - can't?

It doesn't have to be hard, but when the owner/GM forms personal relationships with his favorite players it undermines the head coach.

What real authority does the HC have in Dallas? Can he cut players to make an example? How about fining them? I think we know the answers.

The last head coach who had that kind of authority was Jimmy. Once Jerry fixed the financial mess he inherited, because that's what he's good at, he decided to become more involved with the football operations. The rest is history.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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according to Emmitt and Irvin yes pretty much all the time. I understand why Jimmy cut mid level players but I also know if you have on your roster say 4 OG, 1 starting on the right side and left leaves 2 backups, so you take out Williams because of issues and the results are less than before you faces choices during the seasons where you have few options. Jimmy had no cap to deal with so unless there is something blatant like what we saw in Tampa with Brown walking off the field in the middle of a game, there is not much a team can do. You bench Williams to make a point but in the end you get poor play, it is like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I read Jimmy book in which he talks about dealing with players that not every player will respond the same way, so while player A may need a swift kick in the butt, player B may not respond positively. Lett was an example he used, he never got down on Lett even with stupid things Lett did, because he knew Lett and knew coming down on him would not benefit him and he would not respond to it, the object is to get the most out of the player, he knew the talent was there and knew which button to push to get the most out of him.
true. Jimmy was a psychologist and the same goes for any organization and any team. I don't treat my team the same, each requires a different approach.
 

JoeKing

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Accountability starts at the top. When the GM is not accountable, building a culture of accountability is impossible. How hard is that to understand? ;)
 

Portnoy1

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This accountability stuff is ALL on Jerry!!!!! Kellen Moore as an OC has proven to be a frontrunner in the way he calls plays. Who is he accountable to? It should be big Mike, but it's not. Jerry has endorsed him from day 1 going back to 2019. Big Mike can't and won't interfere with boy geniuses offense even though he is the head coach. Why not? Jerry Jones. If there is no accountability on the staff, then why should there be accountability with the players.
 

SSoup

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Accountability is a hard thing in professional sports, no matter who you are or where you are.

It's especially hard in Dallas.

The atmosphere around this team is all about being a star and living that good life. It's the football equivalent of the scene in a boxing movie, where they show somebody doing their training in what looks like a posh hotel ballroom that they rented out and turned into their fancy gym -- it's shorthand for telling you this person isn't serious about putting in the work it takes to win this fight. That's the Cowboys all year every year, pretty much.

And on the rare occasions where the team is able to put their heads down and put in good work, it doesn't take long before the record gets good enough for everyone to start drowning them in praise. And soon they're patting themselves on the back. And if they aren't patting themselves on the back, guess who is -- the GM (who spends most of his time marketing the team, because he's not just the GM, he's the owner and wants them to be profitable).

With both major networks' top broadcasting crew manned by a retired Cowboy, I feel like we're only gonna have more and more young Cowboys coming through who prioritize obsessing over their personal "brand" as they try to make themselves more well-known and recognized, to position themselves for that post-playing career as a broadcaster. Jason Witten retired as every non-Cowboys fan's favorite Cowboy, and as a result he walked into a cushy Monday Night Football job despite being utterly unqualified and ill-suited for it. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that level of fame isn't the dream for most of these kids coming up today.

And look at the guys who didn't go the broadcasting route, with guys like Dez very visibly getting tied up in (and presumably profiting a lot from) advertising NFT-selling scams. Young players are gonna wanna build that brand to stay relevant enough so that when they retire, they too get to the be the ones being paid to help push somebody's pyramid scheme on their dumber fans.

If there's one thing about Micah Parsons' rookie year that made me get that weird, nagging "Oh no, time is a flat circle and I know what's gonna happen next 'cause this has all already happened before" feeling in the pit of my stomach, it's the time he spent in press conferences or on twitter trying to make various different nicknames happen. Like he was constantly workshopping lion-themed nicknames or nickname concepts, throwing stuff out there to see what sticks so he might be able to turn it into a thing and monetize it. Maybe it's nothing and he's just having fun, and he's great and he'll stay great. I hope so. Or maybe this is a sign that he's gonna end up going down the path so many of our young guys went down, where their #1 interest ended up being their own brand. If he comes up with some kind of signal or hand gesture he starts repeating all the time on the field (like Jaylon's swipe and Zeke's spoon-feeding and Ceedee's nose wipe and Dez's X), I'm definitely gonna wonder if he's caught the bug, too.
 
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