You simply can’t value draft picks

BobSacamano said:

You simply can’t value draft picks

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I don't think I could disagree with anything more than that statement.

Alexander said:

That was more of an out of character in-season desperation move to try to save a campaign.

Acquiring players via offseason trades is not their M.O. anymore and has not been a profitable practice since Coach Johnson left the building.

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Maybe. But it did happen. I didn't agree with the move myself at the time. I've always been with the style that you don't trade 1st round picks unless you believe you are one player away from a SB.

And I think everyone agreed at the time. That's not what that was.

But whatever.

BobSacamano said:

Saw an article where the Jaguars gained absolutely nothing from the trade of Jalen Ramsey to acquire three draft choices, two firsts and a fourth. They basically received the equivalency of two sacks from those three selections. Can anybody even recall those selections off the top of their heads? Meanwhile the Rams are now participating in the Super Bowl.

Kind of puts into perspective that you can’t simply live by the draft even though you may happen to do it well or in the case of the Jaguars, poorly. You sometimes need to acquire established players either through trades or free agency.

The Jayron Kearses and Robert Quinns should serve as the minimum.

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DE Chaisson
DE Jordan Smith
RB Etienne

I'm pretty sure that's the 3 they got. Keep in mind Rams picks are going to be on the later side. Players like Ramsey aren't going to be sitting there at number 20. You could get lucky. Or hope to at least pick a few solid players. But you can't expect to replace Ramsey.

BobSacamano said:

Saw an article where the Jaguars gained absolutely nothing from the trade of Jalen Ramsey to acquire three draft choices, two firsts and a fourth. They basically received the equivalency of two sacks from those three selections. Can anybody even recall those selections off the top of their heads? Meanwhile the Rams are now participating in the Super Bowl.

Kind of puts into perspective that you can’t simply live by the draft even though you may happen to do it well or in the case of the Jaguars, poorly. You sometimes need to acquire established players either through trades or free agency.

The Jayron Kearses and Robert Quinns should serve as the minimum.

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Quinn had what 18 sacks with a poor Bears team that fired its coaches . Kearse I hope isn’t a one and done like Quinn . 27 must not have been healthy in the SF game he looked horrible but during the regular season when 27 was on the field the ball carrier or receiver found out pretty quickly. He needs to be a FA we re sign.

BermyStar said:

It could be that there are multiple ways to build a team. The theory that it has to be one, the other or some specific mixture of the two is overblown. It's the same with whether offense is more important than defense or passing game vs ground game and so on... teams have had success a myrid of different ways.

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This. Some people build winners through the draft, but important to note is far less build it through trades and free agency. If anything, the winning solution is probably to do it both ways. Very few teams can hit every move one way. People conveniently leave off the players drafted by the Rams or Chiefs. Even our early 90’s Cowboys who were a great example of draft building with Jimmy’s knowledge of recruiting classes relied on trades/FA (Haley, Novacek, Washington, Primetime, etc) and pre-existing Landry talent. (several players on both lines, Norton, Irvin, etc). You need a great GM who gets the entire team picture and therein lies our dilemma.

Do we draft that well? I was thinking we did also but looking back at the the years after 2016 I guess it depends on how many quality starters you get in the first 3 or 4 picks. You would hope for sold depth and to hit on few picks later also that world become starters. That is what I would say a quality draft is.

2017 1. Taco 2. Awuzie 3. Jourdan Lewis. After that we hit on hmmm, Noah Brown the best player? We did have only 6th and 7th rounder's after the 4th round pick. Not a very good draft at all.

2018 1. LVE 2. Conner Williams 3. Gallup. After that we got both Dorance Armstrong and Dalton Schultz in the 4th and Cedric Wilson in the 6th. Gallup was a good pick but LVE and Williams need to be replaced. Dalton is a solid tight end but I wish he could block. It would have been nice to hit on at least starters for the first two picks or at least one then I would have called this a solid draft with the later picks. With LVE and Williams needing to be replaced I cant call it good.

2019 2. Trysten Hill 3. Conner McGovern. After that we got Tony Pollard in the 4th and Donavan Wilson in the 6th.We gave our first for Cooper but Hill an McGovern really sting, Imagine if we got two at least solid starters with our first two picks and add Pollard and Wilson. Now that would be solid.

2020 1. Lamb 2. Diggs 3. Gallimore. Three good to great picks, after that we got Biadasz in the forth and Anae in the 5th pretty much meh and we missed out getting solid players in those last 4 picks. Great at the top of the draft but not good after those first three picks.

2021 Too early to rally rate so I wont

I am not so sure we could not draft better when you look at those drafts from top to the bottom. Please tell me your thoughts, tell me I am wrong and make me feel better about my team.

ChronicCowboy said:

Yeah the Rams and Chiefs have destroyed the “must keep your draft picks” mantra.

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who gave the chiefs traded picks for? and the Rams are an outlier and not someone you can emulate without a few other things going for you (ie generational talent, ideal locale and one of the best hc’s in the league )

CowboysJames69 said:

Do we draft that well? I was thinking we did also but looking back at the the years after 2016 I guess it depends on how many quality starters you get in the first 3 or 4 picks.

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No offense to those taken after the 3rd or 4th round, of course.

big dog cowboy said:

No offense to those taken after the 3rd or 4th round, of course.

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yes no offense just need to hit a few of those 4th to later round picks and have a solid top of the draft, not so sure we ever get both at the same time. sigh

Proof said:

who gave the chiefs traded picks for? and the Rams are an outlier and not someone you can emulate without a few other things going for you (ie generational talent, ideal locale and one of the best hc’s in the league )

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Chiefs traded away their 2016, 2018, 2019 and 2021 first round picks. They acquired Frank Clark for their 2019 pick and Orlando Brown for their 2021 pick. The 2018 pick was used to move up for Mahomes in 2017.

BobSacamano said:

Saw an article where the Jaguars gained absolutely nothing from the trade of Jalen Ramsey to acquire three draft choices, two firsts and a fourth. They basically received the equivalency of two sacks from those three selections. Can anybody even recall those selections off the top of their heads? Meanwhile the Rams are now participating in the Super Bowl.

Kind of puts into perspective that you can’t simply live by the draft even though you may happen to do it well or in the case of the Jaguars, poorly. You sometimes need to acquire established players either through trades or free agency.

The Jayron Kearses and Robert Quinns should serve as the minimum.

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you said the Jaguars....that should have been your first clue. so I assume Diggs, Parsons, CD are meaningless to you.

it depends on which team and which draft picks...in this day and age of NFL and cap limits, draft picks are highly valued and teams that draft well tend to find success.

I simply disagree with you

I live in Australia.. our main football leagues (AFL and NRL) are both salary capped and have been for a long time.

AFL is a little ahead of NRL in terms of draft and recruiting strategies etc etc. Over the last thirty years.. teams have got better and better at managing their lists. AFL recruiters have to pick kids (there is no 'college' system equivalent - our draft picks are selected age 17/18/19) so there can be a lot of misses. There have been teams that have tried to build entirely through the draft (in the early 00s that was the preferred model) but it was then found to take too long and be too risky. Most clubs now try to build a 'base' through the draft and then pick up the 'cream' through FA and/or trades.

So NFL is a different beast.. but I think NFL GMs could get an insight by having a look at how our successful clubs do it. Even in the era of equalisation, caps etc etc.. we have some clubs that are more dominant than others. This is usually because they have excellent coaching and great recruiting/list management (and a heap of luck sometimes).

So I think it is overly simplistic to say.. Rams 'won' the Jalen trade. I think you need to be shrewd at drafting BUT you have to be prepared to trade/release some of that talent to get the right pieces via FA and trade. Ultimately the biggest difference with NFL is that a few 'stars' can really change the team dynamic. So its about making sure if you go for that big trade.. it is the right player and the right time.

America's Cowboy said:

Sorry, bro. With the salary cap always there to worry about, and Jerry always overpaying a handful of players, the draft is soooo more important than free agency. The key is to draft well on a yearly basis.

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That is what is known as the real problem, the albatross around the neck of the Dallas Cowboys.

Jalen Ramsey didn't want to be there and doubt they would have came to a long term deal. Better to get draft picks in those situations. I still value building through the draft with the caveat that sometimes giving away picks for a proven talent to fill a glaring need makes more sent than taking a flyer on an unknown talent.

BobSacamano said:

Saw an article where the Jaguars gained absolutely nothing from the trade of Jalen Ramsey to acquire three draft choices, two firsts and a fourth. They basically received the equivalency of two sacks from those three selections. Can anybody even recall those selections off the top of their heads? Meanwhile the Rams are now participating in the Super Bowl.

Kind of puts into perspective that you can’t simply live by the draft even though you may happen to do it well or in the case of the Jaguars, poorly. You sometimes need to acquire established players either through trades or free agency.

The Jayron Kearses and Robert Quinns should serve as the minimum.

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Whether the draft or "established" guys, there is a risk of poor performance.

ChronicCowboy said:

Yeah the Rams and Chiefs have destroyed the “must keep your draft picks” mantra.

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They have not. They already had a super bowl ready team, so in this case their draft picks were not worth as much anyway.

I think you can see the difference between a super bowl contender giving up a late first for talent and some 4 win team losing their draft picks, right?

Houston has proven that the exact opposite of what you say is true!!!!!!!!

Jake said:

The Rams are showing the model. Trade first round picks for proven commodities at important positions - QB, blindside tackle, Corner, and Edge Rusher.

You can fill out the other spots with mid-round picks. They don't extend those other positions, either. Let them leave for comp picks, instead.

They have 8 picks in the 2022 draft, despite their trades.

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AFTER you have a super bowl roster. Cooper Kupp, Donald, Kiser, Rapp, they have some key pieces they drafted.

America's Cowboy said:

With the salary cap always there to worry about, and Jerry always overpaying a handful of players

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Yet they are consistently under the salary cap and roll over the extra millions every year.

big dog cowboy said:

Yet they are consistently under the salary cap and roll over the extra millions every year.

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That's only been the last few years, and that's coming to a screeching halt.