Stafford another good example

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

willia451 said:
No we're not. We're having a discussion. A well-mannered and enjoyable one at that where both sides are keeping their emotions in check. So thank you for that. It's so rare these days. Kudos to you. That bleacher report article I also listed. And at how the beat writers at that other site responded to it.

I would argue that physicality is a subset of talent.

But whatever.

I believe your point is well-taken. Which is why I've been trying to peel back the onion layers to try to get at its core.

I think my point is well-taken as well.

It really can be both. And probably is.

I enjoyed our discussion. Thank you.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

jwitten82 said:
He's an elite QB, if Brett Favre can be considered an elite QB with the amount of turnovers he had throughout his career than Stafford is definitely elite. He had a great playoff run, this Superbowl win puts him in the HOF. He has the numbers for it with being the fastest player to reach 45,000 yards passing and 323 touchdowns- 161 interceptions,

Stafford played for too many bad teams to be considered elite. He has a losing QB record and QBs are judged by their W/L record. Prior to coming to LA he was 0-3 in the playoffs. He never made Detroit a real viable team. There’s really no comparison between him and Brett Favre who’s considered one of the all-time great QBs. Favre is 4th all-time in TD passes and 5th all-time in passing yards. He was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Had Stafford stayed in Detroit and didn’t come to a loaded Rams team he would’ve been sitting home watching the playoffs. He didn’t play a great game yesterday but had a loaded team around him.

nightrain · Feb 14, 2022

Swagger said:
In reality the first interception was effectively an arm punt, worse case scenario he gave the Bengals 5-10 yards better field possession on their next possession. It was well worth going for the TD given the offense were not in field goal range. The second interception was more on the receiver but they didn't have a tight end or Beckham by that point so when the back ups are called upon to make plays, that can happen. Stafford was excellent and led the offense to a game winning drive, including beating double coverage with an exceptional throw. Sounds like you were watching a different game.

And no MVP for an "excellent" performance by a QB in a SB is a little surprising. The Rams D won that game.

BleedinBlue · Feb 14, 2022

KJJ said:
Stafford played for too many bad teams to be considered elite. Prior to coming to LA he was 0-3 in the playoffs. He never made Detroit a real viable team. There’s really no comparison between him and Brett Favre who’s considered one of the all-time great QBs. Favre is 4th all-time in TD passes and 5th all-time in passing yards. He was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Had Stafford stayed in Detroit and didn’t come to a loaded Rams team he would’ve been sitting home watching the playoffs. He didn’t play a great game yesterday but had a loaded team around him.

But he did come to the Rams , what if he wins another SB ? There's only 2 QB's playing right now that have more yards. Ryan and Rodgers so he could easily move up to top 5 or 7 before his career is over. Add another SB and he'd be right there.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

BleedinBlue said:
But he did come to the Rams , what if he wins another SB ? There's only 2 QB's playing right now that have more yards. Ryan and Rodgers so he could easily move up to top 5 or 7 before his career is over. Add another SB and he'd be right there.

If he wins another Super Bowl he’s going to be looked at a lot better than he did prior to coming to LA. Jim Plunkett won two Super Bowls after leaving New England but no one considers him a great QB. Stafford’s career numbers and yesterdays Super Bowl win may get him in the Hall of Fame but not on the first ballot. However, he currently has a losing QB record. That certainly doesn’t help his cause. We’ll see if the Rams are able to keep their team together. Not going to be easy paying all those players and not having any first round picks for a while.

BleedinBlue · Feb 14, 2022

KJJ said:
If he wins another Super Bowl he’s going to be looked at a lot better than he did prior to coming to LA. Jim Plunkett won two Super Bowls after leaving New England but no one considers him a great QB. Stafford’s career numbers and yesterdays Super Bowl win may get him in the Hall of Fame but not on the first ballot. However, currently has a losing QB record.

True , would be sorta like Eli Manning if he wins another SB. He could pass Manning who didn't have a great W- L record either but 2 good playoff runs.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

BleedinBlue said:
True , would be sorta like Eli Manning if he wins another SB. He could pass Manning who didn't have a great W- L record either but 2 good playoff runs.

Eli finished with a 500 QB record and an 8-3 playoff record. He played for more good teams than Stafford did and has two wins over Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. He also has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Eli had a lot more skins on the wall than Stafford. Eli is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

CATCH17 · Feb 14, 2022

KJJ said:
Stafford played for too many bad teams to be considered elite. He has a losing QB record and QBs are judged by their W/L record. Prior to coming to LA he was 0-3 in the playoffs. He never made Detroit a real viable team. There’s really no comparison between him and Brett Favre who’s considered one of the all-time great QBs. Favre is 4th all-time in TD passes and 5th all-time in passing yards. He was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Had Stafford stayed in Detroit and didn’t come to a loaded Rams team he would’ve been sitting home watching the playoffs. He didn’t play a great game yesterday but had a loaded team around him.

You shouldn’t have needed to see Stafford winning or losing to see that he was a top tier elite talent at the position.

I mean I used have Cowboys fans whining when I’d say Stafford > Dak. Well now it’s just common sense.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

CATCH17 said:
You shouldn’t have needed to see Stafford winning or losing to see that he was a top tier elite talent at the position.

I mean I used have Cowboys fans whining when I’d say Stafford > Dak. Well now it’s just common sense.

To be an elite QB you have to have the wins especially in postseason. QBs are judged on their W/L record. Stafford was known for putting up big numbers but not winning games. Also to be an elite QB have to be ranked in the top 5 QBs. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson are considered better than Stafford. Deshaun Watson would be considered better if he was playing.

Swagger · Feb 14, 2022

nightrain said:
And no MVP for an "excellent" performance by a QB in a SB is a little surprising. The Rams D won that game.

The MVP went to a wide receiver, i.e. a player on the offense continually thrown the ball by Stafford. Cooper Kupp also had an excellent game but if anyone thought Stafford was average, or even had a bad game, then they either do not understand what they are thinking/talking about, or have some sort of bias against him because it does not fit their narrative perhaps due to plain ignorance in support for Dak Prescott, a QB who has unable to win a playoff game with a stacked roster.

TwoDeep3 · Feb 14, 2022

Swagger said:
The 2014 team had a poor defense. No QB would have won the SB with that team. 2007...well sadly he couldn't catch his own pass - Crayton stopped his route for a walk in TD to beat the eventual SB champions. You don't get countless opportunities to continually throw dimes to win a game, those opportunities are few and far between and need to be caught. Ask Brady and Wes Welker.

Romo seems to gain more apologists as time wears on. I liked Romo. But I also watched him throw picks at the most critical times in games.

Somehow those have been attributed to the defense as well.

Swagger · Feb 14, 2022

TwoDeep3 said:
Romo seems to gain more apologists as time wears on. I liked Romo. But I also watched him throw picks at the most critical times in games.

Somehow those have been attributed to the defense as well.

Not an apologist, merely a realist. You probably blame Romo for the Cowboys losing the play off game against the Vikings in 2009 and ignore that no QB in the history of the game would have won with the offensive line Romo had to contend with that day.

starcity214 · Feb 14, 2022

TwoDeep3 said:
Romo seems to gain more apologists as time wears on. I liked Romo. But I also watched him throw picks at the most critical times in games.

Somehow those have been attributed to the defense as well.

Romo wasn't perfect..

But you seem to forget most of those untimely INTS came when the defense were bottom feeders and Romo "had" to play hero ball.

CATCH17 · Feb 14, 2022

KJJ said:
To be an elite QB you have to have the wins especially in postseason. QBs are judged on their W/L record. Stafford was known for putting up big numbers but not winning games. Also to be an elite QB have to be ranked in the top 5 QBs. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson are considered better than Stafford. Deshaun Watson would be considered better if he was playing.

No. To be elite you just have to be elite.

Eli Manning will never be as good as Tony Romo even though he has Superbowls.

Mr_437 · Feb 14, 2022

Umm, I'm just not there with Stafford. I mean, McVay got Jared Goff to the SB. I think more highly of the HC and his offensive scheme. Folks are dubbing Kupp as the best WR, and that's not true either. What a difference a good HC n GM makes.

BleedinBlue · Feb 14, 2022

KJJ said:
Eli finished with a 500 QB record and an 8-3 playoff record. He played for more good teams than Stafford did and has two wins over Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. He also has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Eli had a lot more skins on the wall than Stafford. Eli is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

Purely hypothetical..assuming the Rams are not # 1 seed they would have to win 4 games to be SB champs that would tie Eli at 8-3 , Stafford has time to pass him in yardage and TD's, so could be a chance he gets to HOF. Maybe he gets MVP of next SB. Got to give him some credit , knowing what the Rams gave up there must have been an immense amount of pressure on him , not only to get the Rams there but to win.

Section446 · Feb 14, 2022

Someday, we'll have a SB caliber QB.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

CATCH17 said:
No. To be elite you just have to be elite.

Eli Manning will never be as good as Tony Romo even though he has Superbowls.

That’s all in your mind. You go with whatever you believe in. Unfortunately for you that’s not how it works.

KJJ · Feb 14, 2022

BleedinBlue said:
Purely hypothetical..assuming the Rams are not # 1 seed they would have to win 4 games to be SB champs that would tie Eli at 8-3 , Stafford has time to pass him in yardage and TD's, so could be a chance he gets to HOF. Maybe he gets MVP of next SB. Got to give him some credit , knowing what the Rams gave up there must have been an immense amount of pressure on him , not only to get the Rams there but to win.

His career numbers and the Super Bowl gives him a chance to get to the Hall of Fame.

TwoDeep3 · Feb 14, 2022

Swagger said:
Not an apologist, merely a realist. You probably blame Romo for the Cowboys losing the play off game against the Vikings in 2009 and ignore that no QB in the history of the game would have won with the offensive line Romo had to contend with that day.

And yet you left out the games when he tossed picks and lost the games.

Stafford another good example

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