Twitter: KDDrummond: Jerry and Stephen free agent philosophy in a nutshell

Hawkeye0202 said:

Little context.......Brandon Carr was the last outside free agent we signed to a long-term contract in 2012

On March 14, 2012, the Dallas Cowboys signed Carr to a five-year, $50.10 million contract with $26.50 million guaranteed and a signing bonus of $10 million.

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Been said since that situation they have been gun shy since.

Cowboysheelsreds053 said:

Been said since that situation they have been gun shy since.

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Carr wasn't even a bust.

They signed him to play in one scheme then promptly changed it after one season.

baltcowboy said:

I don’t have a problem with their philosophy. My issue is when you see a quarterback only winning one playoff game in 5 years maybe you don’t make them the highest paid player in the league. You don’t pay a gimp a top 5 linebacker salary, you don’t make extend a bell cow running back in a passing league when they have two years left on their contract, and finally you don’t offer a part time player a 70 million contract because he happens to play 11 games this season.

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Everything you listed happens because of the philosophy. All of the bad contracts that are handed out to Jerrys boys are the heart of the issue.

fivetwos said:

Carr wasn't even a bust.

They signed him to play in one scheme then promptly changed it after one season.

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This, now they afraid to sign anyone during the first week of FA except all of there own players who led us to one and done.

Its sad when the best free agent move of the offseason is letting Williams leave..

gimmesix said:

I don't happen to agree with them, but if you look at all that they have said over the years about why this is their philosophy, these are the reasons they do what they do.

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There are reasons all right. The wrong reasons. They will tell you all kinds of nonsense and lies about why they do what they do. At the end of the day they do it because they want to. It may not be in the best interest of the team but they do it anyway. They play with their favorite toy as they see fit.

Risen Star said:

No.

1. They don't know talent. They truly have no idea who can or can't play. This is why they have crap at DT every year. They aren't aware of it.

2. They love themselves. They are their biggest fans. They drafted these guys and aren't they great and aren't we smart. We really do a great job.

It's not about earning anything in Dallas. They just tried to give 14 million a year for 5 years to a DE that has done almost nothing on the field for 7 years. Did Jaylon Smith earn his contract? What about Blake Jarwin? Things are given to you here. Players are coddled and entitled.

It's a land of make believe that only exists to feed the ego of Jerry and his family. I wish players actually had to earn what they get here.

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I really see No. 2 on your list as the greatest threat to this organization. It clouds everything we do, from self-evaluation, to the evaluation of coaches, to everything in between.

Dallas actually tried it the other way previously.
They signed T.O.
They traded for Joey Galloway.
They were constantly after BIG names.

That is literally the ONLY philosophy worse than this cheap skate one.

Fans prove every day they'd be taken out back and beaten by their own parents after a single free agent period.
We'd have 200 M committed to 33 year old Von Miller and Honey Badger. Or we'd be starting Teddy Bridgewater at QB because he was cheap. ((before you gasp search these names and cowboys and this site... you'll see a megaton of folks who are board with those moves, maybe even me))
Fans suck at roster building 99% of the time. That is foolish stuff.

But Dallas has to do a better job of signing mid-level guys. Recruiting.
Of changing with the times as oppose dot monster reactionary moves after a decade of failure.

They need to understand EVERYONE saw Baltimore and Pittsburgh and NE and others play it cap safe and compete for a decade.
That become the model.
Then other teams decided to flip that model to be the outlier. Philly, KC, Tampa, LA.
When there are less teams fighting for the best veteran players, those players become much easier to get.

Dallas needs to study and educate themselves with current data. That part is not a joke.

fivetwos said:

Meh....they just fall in love with players personally and want to make their draft record look better.

They also aren't qualified to evaluate talent from around the league, they know it, and don't want to be exposed.

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Yours and KD's opinion are very true thanks.

gimmesix said:

This is not what the Joneses have said. When you sign free agents from another team, it comes with a lot of uncertainty and risk. The more you invest, the bigger the risk. After the 2012 big-money signing of Brandon Carr flamed out, the Joneses decided the high-cost, early-free agency signing period was too big of a gamble. Players get paid more than they are worth and often end up not living up to the contract. So they abandoned that period almost entirely (unless they felt there was a player there who was a bargain). Other examples they used of this was Marco Rivera.

With their own free agents, they believe they better understand the value of the player. They know the player's temperament in the locker room, the amount of effort he gives and the level of play he can achieve. It isn't merely about rewarding their own, it's about risk-reward management. Although there have been failures in this strategy, they still believe it is less risky than signing other teams' FAs to exorbitant deals.

I don't happen to agree with them, but if you look at all that they have said over the years about why this is their philosophy, these are the reasons they do what they do.

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It's interesting that you bring up the Brandon Carr contract. Had Carr started his career in Dallas, with our current philosophy, would we not gladly hand him that contract again when his rookie deal expired? While he was anything but a lock-down, game-changing player, the man went on to start 80 consecutive games for us. How many second contracts have netted us that kind of reliability?

fivetwos said:

All valid. I'll counter with this though....

-No other pro team is structured this way or operates under that philosophy, as sound as it may seem.

-Its been proven to not work.

There's no way to question questioning it.

Even the majority of fans, the type you'll never find around these parts.....are going to begin to jump ship before all that long.

Jerry knows it. He isnt a dummy, he just plays one on the radio. That's why I'm surprised they aren't more aggressive, but that's been covered.

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As I said, I'm not a fan of it. I think it was an overreaction by the Joneses, who are stubbornly sticking with it even though it has not brought success. That's the bad thing about not having a real GM and the owner staying out of it. I don't think a real GM would base his team's entire FA strategy on failed FA signings. He might become more choosy, but he'd understand that you can't overtake better teams when they are trying to add to what they got in FA while you don't.

Ken said:

Look at the money thrown around in the first days of FA. Do you really want to pay guys like Christian Kirk #1 money when he is a very good slot guy?

They will get some steals here, likely starting this weekend.

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How has their philosophy worked out so far?

jterrell said:

Dallas actually tried it the other way previously.
They signed T.O.
They traded for Joey Galloway.
They were constantly after BIG names.

That is literally the ONLY philosophy worse than this cheap skate one.

Fans prove every day they'd be taken out back and beaten by their own parents after a single free agent period.
We'd have 200 M committed to 33 year old Von Miller and Honey Badger. Or we'd be starting Teddy Bridgewater at QB because he was cheap. ((before you gasp search these names and cowboys and this site... you'll see a megaton of folks who are board with those moves, maybe even me))
Fans suck at roster building 99% of the time. That is foolish stuff.

But Dallas has to do a better job of signing mid-level guys. Recruiting.
Of changing with the times as oppose dot monster reactionary moves after a decade of failure.

They need to understand EVERYONE saw Baltimore and Pittsburgh and NE and others play it cap safe and compete for a decade.
That become the model.
Then other teams decided to flip that model to be the outlier. Philly, KC, Tampa, LA.
When there are less teams fighting for the best veteran players, those players become much easier to get.

Dallas needs to study and educate themselves with current data. That part is not a joke.

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The Rams and TB signed big named fa and won the super bowl. Name the teams that won with the Cowboys approach.

birdwells1 said:

How has their philosophy worked out so far?

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Not good

JohnsKey19 said:

You'll NEVER win this way. You literally have to nail the draft every single year. It's a completely unrealistic and asinine way to run the team claiming to strive for a Super Bowl. But the family business continues to make money and nobody is getting fired, so the only real suckers here are the fans.

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Geez, only 2 teams make a SB each year and you have to have outstanding QB play to have a chance to make it happen. We don't have and may never have great QB play in Dallas. "That's All Folks"!

birdwells1 said:

How has their philosophy worked out so far?

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A month ago this forum had a meltdown after we lost to San Fran because we thought our mega-talented roster should have made a deep playoff run.

Now we are doing a complete 180 and saying this team doesn't know how to acquire talent.

You have to log in to this forum everyday just to keep up.

Dale said:

It's interesting that you bring up the Brandon Carr contract. Had Carr started his career in Dallas, with our current philosophy, would we not gladly hand him that contract again when his rookie deal expired? While he was anything but a lock-down, game-changing player, the man went on to start 80 consecutive games for us. How many second contracts have netted us that kind of reliability?

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We probably would have, which is one of the major flaws in the philosophy. Or we might have treated him like Byron Jones. We knew what we had in Byron and we were not willing to pay him the exorbitant amount he received as a free agent.

People tend to read what they want into what the Jones are doing, but it's important to pay attention to the details. With their own players, if they do not think the player is worth what he's going to get in FA, they don't pay it (DeMarco Murray and Byron Jones are good examples of this). If they think the player is worth it, they pay it. This is not just simply hubris of we drafted the guy so we're going to pay him no matter what. We traded a first-round pick for Cooper and then signed him to a market value contract, but despite that, we still traded him for peanuts this offseason because we no longer believed he was worth the contract and thought we'd get better value with Gallup.

Fans just like to blast the Joneses, but there is a method to their madness even if it's a poor one. What the philosophy needs to be is very specific and targeted FA signings from other teams. The problem with the Carr signing is that he was the best corner available in that free agent class, but he wasn't close to the best player available in that free agent class. The Cowboys needed a corner so they overpaid for the best one available. Supply drives up demand, and that's what needs to be understood. You don't buy when the supply is low driving up the price of a good player to where you are paying for a great one.

Tommy said:

A month ago this forum had a meltdown after we lost to San Fran because we thought our mega-talented roster should have made a deep playoff run.

Now we are doing a complete 180 and saying this team doesn't know how to acquire talent.

You have to log in to this forum everyday just to keep up.

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They're philosophy of deciding who gets playing time. The philosophy of undercutting the HC rendering him a figure head. The philosophy of forcing an OC on the head coach. Finally the philosophy of not pursuing top flight free agent DOES NOT WORK!!! 26 YEARS.

MyFairLady said:

There are reasons all right. The wrong reasons. They will tell you all kinds of nonsense and lies about why they do what they do. At the end of the day they do it because they want to. It may not be in the best interest of the team but they do it anyway. They play with their favorite toy as they see fit.

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It's easy to see what they do and why they do it if you pay attention to the details of it. You can say that they do what they do because they want to, but there is a reasoned strategy behind it, even if it is a flawed reason.

Most of the comments about what they do and why they do it are just as overreactionary as their strategy. As I said, I don't agree with their philosophy, but not signing expensive free agents from other teams this offseason falls right in line with it as does signing some of our own if they believe the market value is right (even if it seems high to us).

baltcowboy said:

I don’t have a problem with their philosophy. My issue is when you see a quarterback only winning one playoff game in 5 years maybe you don’t make them the highest paid player in the league. You don’t pay a gimp a top 5 linebacker salary, you don’t make extend a bell cow running back in a passing league when they have two years left on their contract, and finally you don’t offer a part time player a 70 million contract because he happens to play 11 games this season.

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Dan Marino had multiple losing seasons and never won a super bowl. The Dolphins should have sent him packing too right?