CFZ What is it about 2nd Round picks here?

Typhus said:

Thats called playing within a system and coaches playing best matchups.
Was his best season for a reason.

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He was in all pro the next year in tennessee.

Typhus said:

Come away from this draft with
1st - A starting OL, position does not matter. Guard,Center, Tackle, dont care who falls, this OL is desperate.
2nd - Give Quinn his pick here, I bet its more valuable and starting worthy than the past decade with 2nd round choices, give the man his choice.
3rd - Go BPA here, its a deep WR draft so might get lucky and catch one falling.
What I dont want to see in this draft is throwing away our 4 5th rounders like those picks are worthless, we need to hit there, and this draft is backloaded.
Let McClay play with those picks and watch what happens to this roster quickly.

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Me likey!!!!!!

Typhus said:

Its actually a great idea if you nail 3-4 starters in every draft and get to play them on rookie contracts if you hit the jackpot on a draft and lucky enough to do so, the problem is that we need to basically do just that every year.
Drafting rooks into starting roles is the future of this league.
Agents representing grab cap every year as it elevates, so fans believing in cap expansion somehow helps is very short sighted, agent know what the FO has in the pocket every minute of every day.
Gaining Cap means nothing.
3-4 starters in a draft, I laughed at myself when I saw that I posted that,, you are lucky to grab a Parsons from a draft class.
Just watch this 2nd year draft class close is all Im asking of those that follow.
WM stamp was allowed and is all over that draft class, esp now.

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Yep and folks like us who live in Reality are not good for business here and are insulted daily and that's understandable as the Homers are plenty and the TRUTH is bad in these times.
The Draft ya right lol.....wait till the season starts and these forums are EXCUSES GALORE on why we are losing weekly.
Dak doesn't have the # 1 WR......Dak doesn't have 5 1st round picks on the offline.
Zeke stinks.....how soon they forget that without him our offense is non-existent out there!
I don't know sometimes I wonder why I bother to post anymore.
Think I'll sit back and show up after every loss and post ....................I TOLD YOU SO AND LAUGH as this circus is NOT worthy of anyone's tears!

I have no patience to read all the posts but when I read the question all that came to mind was that we have no clue what to do with our #1, and look to make a bit bang in rd 2 and the only way we think it can happen is to pick the guy who could have been top 5 but fell...not having a clue as to why they fell. I can't be wrong can I?

Redsfan_83 said:

I have no patience to read all the posts but when I read the question all that came to mind was that we have no clue what to do with our #1, and look to make a bit bang in rd 2 and the only way we think it can happen is to pick the guy who could have been top 5 but fell...not having a clue as to why they fell. I can't be wrong can I?

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You can be wrong five times a day like me if you let your guard down for just a moment around these parts.

Ranching said:

Well, there isn't much you or @Bobhaze can do about it, so why get so bent outta shape? If you're a fan, you take the good with the bad.....it's meant to be entertaining.....it's not meant to piss you off....

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There is an entertainment value for everyone. But some of us have more critical thinking. That’s part of the entertainment value.

Much like when I attend a concert, Broadway show or film I enjoy but still can critique what I’ve seen , the actors performance and production.

Often times the analysis or critique can be very positive . And during a season of 17 games we often applaud the individual performances and results while providing more in depth criticism and accolades pending the results.

Football is a sum sport. Meaning we keep score. There’s all types of fans. Attending a game provides a perfect example. And not everyone we’d choose to sit by. But to assume those who choose to provide a more in-depth analysis of what they’ve witnessed as some sort for lack of entertainment is short sighted to say the least.

Remember with a sum sport , there is winner and a loser for the total score. And I think most would attest it’s more fun winning. Although character can be built on losing.

Surely, being a former head coach you could agree with that reasoning . I’d like to think after the games leading up to your next game in practices and in meetings you offered some criticism and accolades pending the performances and results of your players and teams.

Corso said:

2nd Round is not the time, or place Big Brother.
That's the time to secure a reliable cog in the machine moving forward.
Not a lottery ticket.
That's what the rest of the Draft is for.

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You have too get a quality starter in the 2nd. Always thought anyone taken after the 3rd is a total crapshoot.

Ranching said:

Well, there isn't much you or @Bobhaze can do about it, so why get so bent outta shape? If you're a fan, you take the good with the bad.....it's meant to be entertaining.....it's not meant to piss you off....

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Why do you get bent out of shape at people who enjoy analyzing and giving opinions? Why does that bother you at all?

kskboys said:

Why do you get bent out of shape at people who enjoy analyzing and giving opinions? Why does that bother you at all?

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Because I dealt with fans that didn't know a dang thing throughout my career

Randy Moss. He is part of the answer. I know he never played a down for the Cowboys but he still impacted their drafting IMO. In 1998 he was eligible for the draft but had a long list of legal issues as a young man. But he was a real talent. Several teams passed on him due to his earlier troubles and he was not drafted until number 21 in the 1st round. The Cowboys and J Jones passed on him. Well Moss went on to have a HOF career as a WR and in the process racked up several big games against Jones' Cowboys. Ever since the Cowboys and Jones have been somewhat of risk takers on draft talent with personal and/or health issues. Sometimes it works; often times it does not. I still see Randy Moss impacting the team's drafting even now.

Once Jerry Jones and Cowboy management get something in their heads it is hard for them to get away from it. That is the reason Jason Garrett was HC for 9.5 years. They shy away from big name FA's. They make few big time trades for active NFL players. They tend to draft then overpay the good draftees with inflated extensions. Ever since Moss they try the somewhat "risky" approach. That is how this team rolls. Goes along with Jimmy Johnson saying recently that Jerry has a hard time admitting he is wrong...ever.

I will say this about 2015. That was the draft after the Packers playoff loss where we couldn't sniff a hobbled Rodgers.
The team took a risk on Hardy and then in the 2nd Gregory was still there.
Obviously in hindsight both moves backfired(short term). But, with the team still in the Romo win now mode, drafting Gregory seemed like a worthy risk cause he was a talented pass rusher from CFB that had the talent to be a very good RDE. They either where completely surprised at his weed habits or didn't vet him hard enough during the draft process on why he smoked weed.

20/20 here but that draft had some gems later on for DE's. Danielle Hunter was picked mid-late 3rd round and ZaDarius Smith was in the 4th.
And red flag Frank Clark didn't get suspended as much as RG94 did.

John813 said:

I will say this about 2015. That was the draft after the Packers playoff loss where we couldn't sniff a hobbled Rodgers.
The team took a risk on Hardy and then in the 2nd Gregory was still there.
Obviously in hindsight both moves backfired(short term). But, with the team still in the Romo win now mode, drafting Gregory seemed like a worthy risk cause he was a talented pass rusher from CFB that had the talent to be a very good RDE. They either where completely surprised at his weed habits or didn't vet him hard enough during the draft process on why he smoked weed.

20/20 here but that draft had some gems later on for DE's. Danielle Hunter was picked mid-late 3rd round and ZaDarius Smith was in the 4th.
And red flag Frank Clark didn't get suspended as much as RG94 did.

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The problem I have with this second round history is taking unnecessary risks year after year with a premium draft pick. It’s not wrong to take a risk. Maybe do it once. Or take risks on day 3 in rounds 4-7. But over and over in the 2nd round?

When in 15 drafts, your team has only kept 3 second rounders after their rookie deals have expired, that’s bad. Then that forces you to make corrective moves in subsequent drafts and you get what we’ve been getting: mediocrity.

Bobhaze said:

I have never understood the mindset that making a premium second round draft pick is the perfect place to roll the draft dice. Take chances in rounds 4-7. Round two picks should be starting if not right away, at least showing they can soon.

Under the Jones FO, this team has done very well with first round picks but conversely have down awful in round two. It’s almost laughable how our 2nd round picks have turned out for this team. Let’s look at our 2nd round picks in the last 15 drafts:

• 2007- No selection- traded prior to draft.
• 2008- Martellius Bennett- TE. Had a good career after he left Dallas. Somehow, this team could never figure out how to pair him with Witten.
• 2009- No selection because Jerry traded the 2nd round pick to Buffalo for a 3rd and and two 4ths. Part of one of the worst drafts in Cowboys history.
• 2010- Sean Lee- LB- first round talent with a mile long injury history. He was great…when he played. He missed a whopping 58 games in his 11 year career.
• 2011- Bruce Carter- LB- a pretty prospect out of college, played in 32 games in 4 yrs in Dallas. Has had an ok NFL career.
• 2012- no 2nd round pick; traded to the rams so we could move up in round one to get Mo Claiborne with the 5th pick. Claiborne was pretty much a bust considering what this team gave up to get him.
• 2013- Gavin Escobar-TE- at total BUST. Started 7 games in 4 years and rarely played. Was completely out of the league 5 yrs after being drafted.
• 2014- DeMarcus Lawrence- DE- despite what many fans here think, DLaw has been an outstanding player. Most don’t like him because of his paycheck. He’s a 2nd rounder that has worked out here.
• 2015- Randy Gregory- DE- another of Jerry’s wild risks on a guy with great talent but struggling with well chronicled mental health and substance issues off the field. In 7 seasons, never played more than 12 games. And JJ was prepared to pay him like a star before Denver stepped in.
• 2016- Jaylon Smith- LB- another medical risk pick on a guy who was once a stud. His college knee injury was so devastating, he never got back to his potential. Somehow JJ saw him as a top 10 LB in the league and paid him accordingly. Was cut less than two years later and out of the league.
• 2017- Chidobe Awuzie- CB- turned into a decent corner yet was not deemed worth keeping. Started for the Bengals in the SB last year.
• 2018- Connor Williams- OL- drafted to play LG and played ok at times. Often overwhelmed by bull rushers and eventually became the best holder in the league with the stats to prove it. I never thought this guy was anything special. Signed with Miami this off-season.
• 2019- Trysten Hill- DT- going into his 4th NFL season, he has to be called a bust. Jury still out…kinda.
• 2020- Trayvon Diggs- CB- had an All pro season last year and is still only 24. Needs to improve his coverage skills more but he’s been the best 2nd rounder we’ve had along with DLaw.
• 2021- Kelvin Joseph- CB- we all know about the recent “person of interest” embrolio he got himself into. His off field behavior was a red flag going into last yrs draft. Which is often a green light for JJ. Too early to know how this turns out.

So in the last 15 drafts, the Cowboys drafted 12 players in the second round. If you count Jaylon Smith, only three of those 12 ever played for Dallas after their rookie deals- so far. Those guys are Sean Lee, DLaw, and Jaylon Smith. Diggs will probably get a second deal- at least we think so at this point.

With Kelvin Joseph’s potential legal woes, we may have to add another bust to this list.

THIS YEAR- Here’s hoping we draft a talented, un-injured player with no off field issues.

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- Bruce Carter had an average, injury riddled career, imo/ Terrific athlete with average instincts. Coaches had to tailor down his read keys and responsibilities to make it much more simple for him.
Had a team lead 4 INTs as a result. But still end up being no more than an average player

- i thought Chido was a decent player - not a difference maker. Not a ball hawk. But I've always thought he was a better player- and starter- than Anthony Brown.
Cincy coaches clearly got more out of him than what our coaches could. And that includes the Legion of Boom engineers - Kris Richard. .

- Gavin Escobar pick by far the worse - epidome of JAG-
- i have no problem with the Jaylon Smith gamble. Considered top 10 overall talent and at least he was voted to a single pro bowl
- Williams was a stand out college OT with outstanding agility and movement skills. at NFL level , more athlete than player.

- Gregory also a top 10 overall talent and looked like it. If not for now changed NFL drug policy, would've had a stellar career
- DLaw has been to some pro bowls, and worth a 2nd rd pick, at the top of his game, (ala 2017/2018) he's one of the better DEs in the game.

Bobhaze said:

The problem I have with this second round history is taking unnecessary risks year after year with a premium draft pick. It’s not wrong to take a risk. Maybe do it once. Or take risks on day 3 in rounds 4-7. But over and over in the 2nd round?

When in 15 drafts, your team has only kept 3 second rounders after their rookie deals have expired, that’s bad. Then that forces you to make corrective moves in subsequent drafts and you get what we’ve been getting: mediocrity.

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Oh for sure and I agree with your point. They have been too risky in the 2nd/overlook some flags to find "steals" only to find out those red flags were legit. And for the players that did pan out either the team didn't want to keep them or the player didn't want to stay.

Ranching said:

Well, there isn't much you or @Bobhaze can do about it, so why get so bent outta shape? If you're a fan, you take the good with the bad.....it's meant to be entertaining.....it's not meant to piss you off....

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LOL! Who’s more “bent out of shape”? The people offering an opinion on a bad drafting trend- or people who just don’t like opinions they disagree with? On an opinion forum, lol!

If you disagree with an opinion, you are welcome to explain why. Please do. I’m fine with any fan who disagrees with any opinion offered here. If you are ok with our second round draft history, that’s fine. I would love to see your analysis why you disagree. Bring it.

Bobhaze said:

LOL! Who’s more “bent out of shape”? The people offering an opinion on a bad drafting trend- or people who just don’t like opinions they disagree with? On an opinion forum, lol!

If you disagree with an opinion, you are welcome to explain why. Please do. I’m fine with any fan who disagrees with any opinion offered here. If you are ok with our second round draft history, that’s fine. I would love to see your analysis why you disagree. Bring it.

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What didn't you understand? Do you really think getting bent outta shape is gonna change anything.

Its like JJ's inner circle has to give him the second round for his gambles so he will let them draft solid the first round.....