Talented Enough? QBs

Chuck 54

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Just heard Cowherd talking about how Mayfield blew it in Cleveland despite being talented. He doesn’t think Sam Darnold blew it in NY or Carolina. His argument is Sam got a second chance but he’s just not talented enough to overcome a bad roster. Sounds so stupid….he compares Darnold by saying he cannot overcome a bad roster like Mahommes, Allen, etc.

Why can’t people just say these QBs are supremely talented, super elite. There’s another group who are very talented but are below the elite group. Then come average QBs you can win games with, followed by QBs who just aren’t very talented.

When did Mahommes, Allen, Jackson and other super talented QBs ever overcome a bad roster and win anything? No one wins with a bad roster, no matter how good their QB is. I hear others besides Cowterd refer to QBs who’s talent would win anywhere….BS. These guys are on great rosters with good coaching. Put Mahommes or Allen on last year’s bad teams, and those teams aren’t going anywhere.

It’s easy to see the difference between great, very good, good, and bad QB’s, but none of them are going to win with a bad roster.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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I think you're underestimating just how good guys like Mahomes and Allen are.

Mahomes has never had a 1,000 yard rusher at RB.
Allen has never had a 1,000 yard rusher at RB.

They are leading the offenses with their arms and their own ability to run the ball without much run support at all.

I'm going to say that this is what guys like Cowherd are referring to when they say things like this. Guys like Mahomes and Allen show that they don't need literally every aspect of the offense to be elite to be successful.
 

thunderpimp91

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I agree you can't just throw anyone on Detroit and expect championships, but most rosters in the league immediately become super bowl contenders with these guys. You put Mahomes on Carolina last year and they still wont win the superbowl, but I'd put a lot of money on them making the playoffs. Switch the QBs with Denver and KC and KC probably finishes last in that division, Denver wins it and maybe a superbowl. Atlanta, Washington, Minnesota, etc all had losing records, but may have been at least 5 games better with a Mahomes/Allen at QB.

To me it feels more like a 3 tier ranking system.

1) Elite - Year after year superbowl contender unless your absolutely gut your team (Rogers, Mahomes, Allen types)
2) Average - Go all in for a short window, because these guys win games, but it becomes tough once you pay them top money to beat the top tier competition (Cousins, Carr, Tannehill types)
3) Bad - Trying to replace asap
 

MountaineerCowboy

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I agree you can't just throw anyone on Detroit and expect championships, but most rosters in the league immediately become super bowl contenders with these guys. You put Mahomes on Carolina last year and they still wont win the superbowl, but I'd put a lot of money on them making the playoffs. Switch the QBs with Denver and KC and KC probably finishes last in that division, Denver wins it and maybe a superbowl. Atlanta, Washington, Minnesota, etc all had losing records, but may have been at least 5 games better with a Mahomes/Allen at QB.

To me it feels more like a 3 tier ranking system.

1) Elite - Year after year superbowl contender unless your absolutely gut your team (Rogers, Mahomes, Allen types)
2) Average - Go all in for a short window, because these guys win games, but it becomes tough once you pay them top money to beat the top tier competition (Cousins, Carr, Tannehill types)
3) Bad - Trying to replace asap
The tier system is interesting

1) Elite - Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers.
2) On the cusp - Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Wilson, and Stafford.
3) Good, but needs a ton help - Jackson and Carr.
4) Can win with if literally everything works out perfectly - Cousins, Tannehill, Dak, Jimmy G, Murray, Mac Jones, Wentz, and Ryan.
5) Everyone else.
 

DasTex

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The tier system is interesting

1) Elite - Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers.
2) On the cusp - Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Wilson, and Stafford.
3) Good, but needs a ton help - Jackson and Carr.
4) Can win with if literally everything works out perfectly - Cousins, Tannehill, Dak, Jimmy G, Murray, Mac Jones, Wentz, and Ryan.
5) Everyone else.

Nit picking, but I'd put Stafford and Dak in the 3rd tier on this list.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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Nit picking, but I'd put Stafford and Dak in the 3rd tier on this list.
Stafford is a Super Bowl champion that lead his offense through the playoffs without ANY run support at all.

The Cowboys didn't win a game this year with Dak at QB without 100 yards of rushing support.

I could live with Stafford in tier 3, but Dak needs too much help, luck, elite players all around, and things working perfectly to even function most of the time.
 

john van brocklin

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Just heard Cowherd talking about how Mayfield blew it in Cleveland despite being talented. He doesn’t think Sam Darnold blew it in NY or Carolina. His argument is Sam got a second chance but he’s just not talented enough to overcome a bad roster. Sounds so stupid….he compares Darnold by saying he cannot overcome a bad roster like Mahommes, Allen, etc.

Why can’t people just say these QBs are supremely talented, super elite. There’s another group who are very talented but are below the elite group. Then come average QBs you can win games with, followed by QBs who just aren’t very talented.

When did Mahommes, Allen, Jackson and other super talented QBs ever overcome a bad roster and win anything? No one wins with a bad roster, no matter how good their QB is. I hear others besides Cowterd refer to QBs who’s talent would win anywhere….BS. These guys are on great rosters with good coaching. Put Mahommes or Allen on last year’s bad teams, and those teams aren’t going anywhere.

It’s easy to see the difference between great, very good, good, and bad QB’s, but none of them are going to win with a bad roster.
It is a team game, and a talented QB can make somewhat of a difference, but I tend to agree with you.
A great QB can't overcome a putrid team.
 

DFWJC

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Nit picking, but I'd put Stafford and Dak in the 3rd tier on this list.
I think Stafford is even better than he showed last year.
He has some residual issues from the 12 years of trying to overcompensate for mostly crap rosters in Detroit to get rid of.
He is preposterously talented and always has been.

As I said before last year; put him on a balanced (or anything close to that) roster and he will strongly content for or win titles.
That immediately was proven to be true.

In fact, I think he would've been in dreamland being on even the rosters that Dallas has had from 2016-2021....and Dallas would've been more successful.
 

Doomsday101

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I think Stafford is even better than he showed last year.
He has some residual issues from the 12 years of trying to overcompensate for mostly crap rosters in Detroit to get rid of.
He is preposterously talented and always has been.

As I said before last year; put him on a balanced (or anything close to that) roster and he will strongly content for or win titles.
That immediately was proven to be true.

In fact, I think he would've been in dream land being on even the rosters that Dallas has had from 2014-2021.

Stafford played with one of the top WR to play the game in Calvin "Megatron" Johnson
 

DFWJC

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Stafford played with one of the top WR to play the game in Calvin "Megatron" Johnson
lol.
Nobody ever said Calvin wasn't great. And Calvin always said Stafford is the best and said wait till you see him with a real team.

Yeah that one player out of 50-60 man roster should've gotten him in the playoffs more!
Come on now, you know better.
They usually had crap defenses (barring 2014), crap run game, crap oline
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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There are super stars, stars, and average, IMO. Because a QB has to at least be average to be a starter in the NFL.

Super stars put up good number with a good winning percentage.

Stars put up good numbers but their winning percentage isn't all that.

Average doesn't put up good numbers on a regular basis.


There are many factors that go into a winning percentage, but at the end of the day points win games. And these guys are paid to put up points.

So most QB's are talented enough, but it all depends on the cast around them. There have been a number of average QB's that have played in Super Bowls.
 

Doomsday101

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lol.
Nobody ever said Calvin wasn't great. And Calvin always said Stafford is the best and said wait till you see him with a real team.

Yeah that one player out of 50-60 man roster should've gotten him in the playoffs more!
Come on now, you know better.
They usually had crap defenses (barring 2014), crap run game, crap oline

We saw Minn with Randy Moss turn that team around to a contender with Culpepper at QB.
 

DFWJC

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We saw Minn with Randy Moss turn that team around to a contender with Culpepper at QB.
That Minnesota team was stacked!

If you are saying adding a great WR to an already strong team can put them over the top, we agree!
Though... the Vikings did not ever win a title, they were good.

Those Lions teams were not remotely that. Brady (or anyone...ever) wins nothing on those teams.

Anyway, Stafford answered the question of if he could win a Super Bowl on a good team. That question is over for him.
He was the first QB in NFL history to go all season and playoffs without a 4th qtr turnover ...and I think something like 19 4th qtr TDs.
He led the NFL by a mile in 4th quarter, crunch time rating
 
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Doomsday101

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That Minnesota team was stacked!

If you are saying adding a great WR to an already strong team can put them over the top, we agree!

Those Lions teams were not remotely that. Brady (or anyone...ever) wins nothing on those teams.

No I'm saying Stafford contributed to the issues. I'm glad he won in LA but he damn near cost them in the post season, his defense bailed him out and the game could have easily gone a different direction.
 

DFWJC

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No I'm saying Stafford contributed to the issues. I'm glad he won in LA but he damn near cost them in the post season, his defense bailed him out and the game could have easily gone a different direction.
Led the NFL in 4th qtr rating and had no 4th qtr turnovers in the entire regular and postseason.
Only QB to ever do that.
He was not perfect (and dodged a cuple of bullets), but in late games--including 3 straight playoff game comebacks--he was crazy good.

I think they all need some help here or there. He for sure got it from the D
 

MountaineerCowboy

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lol.
Nobody ever said Calvin wasn't great. And Calvin always said Stafford is the best and said wait till you see him with a real team.

Yeah that one player out of 50-60 man roster should've gotten him in the playoffs more!
Come on now, you know better.
They usually had crap defenses (barring 2014), crap run game, crap oline
No he doesn't.
 

baltcowboy

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I think you're underestimating just how good guys like Mahomes and Allen are.

Mahomes has never had a 1,000 yard rusher at RB.
Allen has never had a 1,000 yard rusher at RB.

They are leading the offenses with their arms and their own ability to run the ball without much run support at all.

I'm going to say that this is what guys like Cowherd are referring to when they say things like this. Guys like Mahomes and Allen show that they don't need literally every aspect of the offense to be elite to be successful.
Mahomes has had Andy Reid as a head coach and one of best wide receiver/ tight end combos in league history.
Allen is probably the most gifted quarterback in the league right now. Don’t know what scouts were thinking drafting Darnold and Baker over him.
 

DasTex

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And if Stafford throw gets INT by SF, which probably happens 9/10 times, then he blew another playoff game.

He needs help and he had a "super" team around him.
 

CowboyRoy

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Just heard Cowherd talking about how Mayfield blew it in Cleveland despite being talented. He doesn’t think Sam Darnold blew it in NY or Carolina. His argument is Sam got a second chance but he’s just not talented enough to overcome a bad roster. Sounds so stupid….he compares Darnold by saying he cannot overcome a bad roster like Mahommes, Allen, etc.

Why can’t people just say these QBs are supremely talented, super elite. There’s another group who are very talented but are below the elite group. Then come average QBs you can win games with, followed by QBs who just aren’t very talented.

When did Mahommes, Allen, Jackson and other super talented QBs ever overcome a bad roster and win anything? No one wins with a bad roster, no matter how good their QB is. I hear others besides Cowterd refer to QBs who’s talent would win anywhere….BS. These guys are on great rosters with good coaching. Put Mahommes or Allen on last year’s bad teams, and those teams aren’t going anywhere.

It’s easy to see the difference between great, very good, good, and bad QB’s, but none of them are going to win with a bad roster.

Most of these guys on here dont understand QB play and football in general. They watch a great play where the QB throws the ball on a nice pass and wins the game and have no idea all the things it took to allow the QB to have a chance to do his job.

QB record, QB beat this QB, yada yada yada. Problem is you hear the same type of simplified nonsense on ESPN and all over the place. It doesnt sell by blaming a loss on a lineman that didnt block properly.
 

Brax

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Most of these guys on here dont understand QB play and football in general. They watch a great play where the QB throws the ball on a nice pass and wins the game and have no idea all the things it took to allow the QB to have a chance to do his job.

QB record, QB beat this QB, yada yada yada. Problem is you hear the same type of simplified nonsense on ESPN and all over the place. It doesnt sell by blaming a loss on a lineman that didnt block properly.
Explain the Bengals then, horrible OL yet the QB found a way to overcome that.
 
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