Talented Enough? QBs

Ranched · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
I think you're underestimating just how good guys like Mahomes and Allen are. I'm going to say that this is what guys like Cowherd are referring to when they say things like this. Guys like Mahomes and Allen show that they don't need literally every aspect of the offense to be elite to be successful.

Mahomes is nothing without a great HC as Reid nor a top notch OL. We all seen how good he was in KC's last SB without one. As per Josh Allen, he's only had ONE good season in his 4 years in the NFL. Give it a rest. Neither are elite. If you think they are, so is Nick Foles. He has the same amount of Superbowls as Mahomes & Wodgers!

There's ONLY one quarterback whose name is next to the word Elite, & that's Brady!

GINeric · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
Stafford would have at least 2 Super Bowls with our rosters between 2016-2021.

Some here are just in too deep to see reality.

And Dak would have had 4 Superbowls with Megatron and the Lions....

See how that works?

Some here are just too soft and blinded by things beyond football.

blueblood70 · May 7, 2022

cowboyec said:
i don't think baker blew it in cleveland.
i think cleveland blew it in cleveland.
he'll eventually land some where.
i think he needs a change of scenery.
we'll see.

and yet NOT ONE team went after his service. So 31 other teams disagree with you..qbs moved all ove the place the last 2 seasons... Bakers creating his own issues. hes turning into AB etc runs his mouth ao puts blame everywhere but on himself..locker room cancer is growing..

blueblood70 · May 7, 2022

Redline360 said:
Dak better than Stafford lolz. Needed a good laugh

i wouldn't say better but pros and cons al lined uo its a wash..sorry but i watched last year Matt wasn't the sole reason they won that sb..that defense bailed him out many times in the playoffs etc nearly had game ending pick but dropped in SF etc..

dak had his team forget how to run pass block , call players and oh the 14 penalties sure wasnt happing to the rams.you can try and discount dak we may not be the lions but our TEAM around dak finds ways to implode in big moments

MountaineerCowboy · May 7, 2022

GINeric said:
No i wouldn't be happy with Kirk because he's not better than Dak. Im not say that Kirk is a bum or anything because i think he's a good solid starter. But Dak is a very good starting quarterback and his numbers and ranking is proof of that.

But Cousins, who has Dak's 2021 season every year, is not as good?

I think your bias is talking.

MountaineerCowboy · May 7, 2022

GINeric said:
Im pretty sure Dak and the rest of the Cowboys offense would look much better with Andy Reid leading the team, Bienemy calling plays and have elite play makers like Hill and Kelce on offense.

But if Dak is a bum and a tier 4 quarterback.... you STILL haven't explained why he's only 1 of 4 other quarterbacks in NFL'S 100 YEAR HISTORY and out of THOUSANDS OF OTHER QUARTERBACKS to have put up the numbers and winning percentage that he has in his first 5 years in the NFL.

Please explain how a tier 4 bum accomplishes this. Please explain how a tier 4 bum has the winning percentage he has. Please explain how a tier 4 bum is ranked in the top ten out of 32 starting quarterbacks.

Please explain how a tier 4 bum can be highly respected by Hall of Fame coaches, players and GMs. Please explain why other "tier 4 bums" have not been able to do what Dak is doing and has done.

I'll tell you what. If you can explain those things and POST A LINK of CREDIBLE FOOTBALL MINDS/PEOPLE/HALL OF FAMERS seriously saying Dak is a bum, and also list the names of all tier 4 quarterbacks that has put up the numbers and winning percentage that Dak has, then i will RESPECT you and I'll take you seriously.

If you can't show proof of other football professionals saying Dak is a tier 4 bum, then im just going to throw you in the garbage with all the other weak *** Dak haters who can't justify their weak *** hate and do nothing but talk a bunch of uneducated BS with no proof to support their weak *** comments.

Ball is in your court......

Before I answer your question I need to see what you're talking about when you say he's only 1 of 4 QBs to do this or that. You're being too general about it. Give me a link or something explaining what you're referring to.

Why do you care so much about little of me's personal tiers? You took all this time ti write out this defense of him and guess what? He's still tier 4 in my mind and your words will NEVERRRRRR change that. The only thing that changes that is Dak.

You guys care about my opinions so much lol

MountaineerCowboy · May 7, 2022

Ranched said:
Mahomes is nothing without a great HC as Reid nor a top notch OL. We all seen how good he was in KC's last SB without one. As per Josh Allen, he's only had ONE good season in his 4 years in the NFL. Give it a rest. Neither are elite. If you think they are, so is Nick Foles. He has the same amount of Superbowls as Mahomes & Wodgers!

There's ONLY one quarterback whose name is next to the word Elite, & that's Brady!

You have no idea about anything football.

The more I see you post the more that is evident. What you think about anything football related is worthless to me. So, you might as well not waste your time responding to anything I say going forward, because you're one of the posters here that's thoughts on things I take least seriously.

Normally I ignore your brain dead takes, but I thought I'd extend a courtesy to let you know to not waste your time in the future.

cowboyec · May 7, 2022

blueblood70 said:
and yet NOT ONE team went after his service. So 31 other teams disagree with you..qbs moved all ove the place the last 2 seasons... Bakers creating his own issues. hes turning into AB etc runs his mouth ao puts blame everywhere but on himself..locker room cancer is growing..

im not a browns fan so i know nothing of the locker room stuff.
i know the police incident from college never repeated and gets oft over blown by some media folks.
too my knowledge notning like that has happened during his time in cleveland.
as for 31 other teams disagreeing with me.
not really.
why trade away draft picks for an injured qb who they know cleveland will eventually release any way.
they cant keep him.
if im a gm...i just wait it out and hold on to picks.
not hard to figure out.
and regardless of who their qb is....cleveland is always going to cleveland.

blueblood70 · May 7, 2022

cowboyec said:
im not a browns fan so i know nothing of the locker room stuff.
i know the police incident from college never repeated and gets oft over blown by some media folks.
too my knowledge notning like that has happened during his time in cleveland.
as for 31 other teams disagreeing with me.
not really.
why trade away draft picks for an injured qb who they know cleveland will eventually release any way.
they cant keep him.
if im a gm...i just wait it out and hold on to picks.
not hard to figure out.
and regardless of who their qb is....cleveland is always going to cleveland.

but if they needed qb this year as many did he wasnt in the decisions..that all i need to know....
Oh like Amari that mean the Jonses really didn't have as many options as those think they did..hmm double standard

cowboyec · May 7, 2022

blueblood70 said:
but if they needed qb this year as many did he wasnt in the decisions..that all i need to know....
Oh like Amari that mean the Jonses really didn't have as many options as those think they did..hmm double standard

baker's a talented young qb...he'll land some where.
cleveland is gonna have to release him.
unless that shoulder is healed...im not trading for him.
i wait for him to be released...which they will.

CouchCoach · May 7, 2022

Tier 1 - can lift a good team to great and will beat the majority of teams with Tier 2 and below QB's. Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Stafford

Tier 2 - needs better coaching and/or a better team around them but can win it all. Herbert, Wilson, Jackson, Prescott, Cousins

Tier 3 - must have a much better team around them and more than one playmaker on offense. Carr, Lawrence, Garoppolo, Hurts, Watson, Murray, Ryan, Tagovailoa, M. Jones, Tannehill

Tier 4 - pick another QB or too early to tell. All of the others

Dre11 · May 7, 2022

DFWJC said:
Lots of ifs.
But IF that had been a pick, it would've been his first 4th quarter pick all year.

Not even counting IF an early Stafford pass would've been caught for a TD, etc, etc. There are always IFs on the way to Super Bowl playoff runs.
He led 3 straight 4th quarter comeback wins in the playoffs.

Btw, his defense for the year was rated about middle of the pack---so most certainly not a super team-- but they did pull off some great plays to close out some playoff games. No denying that.

Didn't Stafford lead the league in interceptions, that interception would've been what Stafford did all season. Didn't he also give the Bucs a chance to get back in the game also?

Dre11 · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
Do you not think Dallas has had one of the better rosters since 2016?

2016 they didn't even have a great roster. They had 2 rookies leading them, a Wr and TE on downside of career, and a defense that with major hokes.

Aerolithe_Lion · May 7, 2022

Chuck 54 said:
Just heard Cowherd talking about how Mayfield blew it in Cleveland despite being talented. He doesn’t think Sam Darnold blew it in NY or Carolina. His argument is Sam got a second chance but he’s just not talented enough to overcome a bad roster. Sounds so stupid….he compares Darnold by saying he cannot overcome a bad roster like Mahommes, Allen, etc.

Why can’t people just say these QBs are supremely talented, super elite. There’s another group who are very talented but are below the elite group. Then come average QBs you can win games with, followed by QBs who just aren’t very talented.

When did Mahommes, Allen, Jackson and other super talented QBs ever overcome a bad roster and win anything? No one wins with a bad roster, no matter how good their QB is. I hear others besides Cowterd refer to QBs who’s talent would win anywhere….BS. These guys are on great rosters with good coaching. Put Mahommes or Allen on last year’s bad teams, and those teams aren’t going anywhere.

It’s easy to see the difference between great, very good, good, and bad QB’s, but none of them are going to win with a bad roster.

Peyton Manning took the 2009 Colts to the SB. In 2010, they made the playoffs again at 10-6. In 2011, Peyton missed the year with his neck injury and the colts went 2-14, far and away the worst looking team in the league. There is no question he was carrying a bottom 5 roster across the finish line, as well as other anecdotes that show a strong QB really can impact the W/L considerably on a suboptimal team.

However, I don’t think Cowherd’s point is about a team becoming some kind of overnight contender with Darnold, but you need to see some kind of improvement when you upgrade the QB position.

MountaineerCowboy · May 7, 2022

Dre11 said:
2016 they didn't even have a great roster. They had 2 rookies leading them, a Wr and TE on downside of career, and a defense that with major hokes.

So, those 3 All Pro offensive linemen were nothing, huh?

Heck, Sean Lee was 1st team all-pro in 2016 and finished 5th in defensive player of the year voting.

Brax · May 7, 2022

Whirlwin said:
You’d like it just to be one player. It doesn’t work that way. The bangles were horrible. Their last game.

Playing in the big game with a less talented team and a QB who didn’t choke sorry to tell you sometimes it is one player who has a history of choking in games. Hard to stomach but that’s the way it is.

Dre11 · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
So, those 3 All Pro offensive linemen were nothing, huh?

Heck, Sean Lee was 1st team all-pro in 2016 and finished 5th in defensive player of the year voting.

Lol you named 4 players and called the team talented...lol

MountaineerCowboy · May 7, 2022

Dre11 said:
Lol you named 4 players and called the team talented...lol

You acted like they didn't exists and said the team wasn't talented.....lol

Dre11 · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
You acted like they didn't exists and said the team wasn't talented.....lol

4 players don't make the team talented...lol are you serious.

Dre11 · May 7, 2022

MountaineerCowboy said:
You acted like they didn't exists and said the team wasn't talented.....lol

You said the team was as talented as any other in the league..lol

Talented Enough? QBs

Ranched

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GINeric

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