News: PFT: Mike McCarthy: We feel it's important to support Kelvin Joseph based on information we have

Runwildboys

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I'ma justa gonna wait unteel we know evuhry tin...Den I make uppa my minda if I wanna suppote heem. (Sorry, the Italian accent just randomly got stuck in my head and I had to let it out.)
 

baltcowboy

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Oh yeah that comes with the territory. Cowboy in legal trouble? It’s a classic click-bonanza.

But those who genuinely think he won’t be able to play again are completely ignoring the legal parameters and leaning on morals/ethics.

Obviously I want my football players to be good people, but I’m not here to play judge, jury, or executioner. If the legal system is not charging him with anything then why would I assume he won’t be able to play?
I don’t think fans or media don’t think he will play again. Most of fans/media want Jerry to take a stand and cut the kid. They feel that there should be some kind of punishment because a young life was lost. I will admit I have an issue with Joseph and still feel kind of slimy. The reality is that it appears there will not be any criminal charges. It will be interesting to see how the league attempts to discipline Joseph under the personal conduct policy.
 

Corso

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I'ma justa gonna wait unteel we know evuhry tin...Den I make uppa my minda if I wanna suppote heem. (Sorry, the Italian accent just randomly got stuck in my head and I had to let it out.)
Made me want to watch a Marx Bros movie, tbh.
 

817Gill

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I don’t think fans or media don’t think he will play again. Most of fans/media want Jerry to take a stand and cut the kid. They feel that there should be some kind of punishment because a young life was lost. I will admit I have an issue with Joseph and still feel kind of slimy. The reality is that it appears there will not be any criminal charges. It will be interesting to see how the league attempts to discipline Joseph under the personal conduct policy.
Fair enough.

My personal opinion is that the situation was tragic, but it’s not impossible to understand why Joseph was with those guys or why he didn’t come to authorities.

Joseph is from South Baton Rouge, if you know anything about that area then you can understand my drift. Certain communities generationally don’t go to the police for anything and living in areas like that with rampant poverty and crime you’re going to have unsavory friends. I’m willing to bet every NFL player who’s come from one of these underprivileged backgrounds has friends with shady pasts or felonious records. Just an unfortunate reality of growing up in some of these areas.

Therefore I’m not shocked he was with childhood friends who were shady. Yes, we want guys to shed those bad influences once they get to D1/the NFL but it’s not that simple. To expect a 20 something year old kid to just drop most of his childhood friends like hot potatoes is a bit unrealistic. And for the record I’m not saying what he’s done is right, I’m just adding the real context as to why some of these guys get into messed up situations.

As for the failing to report the incident, I would like to bring back the point of certain communities not contacting police as well as the idea that reporting a murder is some simple thing with no possible repercussions. If you are told from your childhood never to talk to the police why would I expect you to do anything different? Again in these communities this philosophy is instilled from childhood.

Secondly, friends can turn to foes real quick. Does nobody understand that him going to the police immediately would’ve put a target on his and his family’s back? Witness tampering is real and violence can happen to anyone testifying to put someone away for years. Once again, this does not excuse the action, but it illuminates the things Joseph would have to consider when going to the police. These circumstances are extremely intense and I would venture to say nobody or very few members of this board have been in that type of situation.

I end my spiel with reiterating that I don’t think what he did was right by any means. But I’m not obtuse to the circumstances that lead to these situations and the whirlwind of things that can happen as a result. Dude has to do a lot of good to make up for what he did, and to the victims family he may never do so. But as unfortunate as the event was the lack of going to police and having those friends is a reality that many young football players could face. Most of these young men do not come from privileged lives and do not have the same thought processes many of us claim to have. I don’t excuse, but I understand where the actions came from given the circumstances.

Thanks for reading lol
 

DanA

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I'm inclined to stick to the position of a guy being innocent until he's proven guilty!

Let's support this young player freely, as long he well maintains his innocence. :cool:

This is just doesn’t cut it for me.

Do you have to wait for a cop to be found guilty before suspending him for a bad shooting?

What if you have an employee that you find out is a peodophile running kids parties, does he keep his job until the guilty verdict?

Innocent until proven guilty might be the law and decide you freedom but it’s not the standard for retaining employment or forming an opinion… and nor should it be.
 

Streifenkarl

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This is just doesn’t cut it for me.

Do you have to wait for a cop to be found guilty before suspending him for a bad shooting?

What if you have an employee that you find out is a peodophile running kids parties, does he keep his job until the guilty verdict?

Innocent until proven guilty might be the law and decide you freedom but it’s not the standard for retaining employment or forming an opinion… and nor should it be.
LoL. 500 years ago it were pitchforks and torches, now it's the internet. People's lives getting destroyed before they're proven guilty happens quite alot these days. Actually that's exactly why we have a system in which "Innocent until proven guilty" is the law. And it should be the public view too.

If you just hear your employee is having weird kids parties then you already fire him even though you don't have any evidence or have seen it yourself? Great boss you are. Maybe some f**ked up mom was just pissed her boy wasn't invited to a birthday party and spread the rumor?

If this happened during a season they could and should have suspended him during the pending investigation or trial. But nothings going on right now so it's ok they don't just cut him off right away but wait.
 
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DanA

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LoL. 500 years ago it were pitchforks and torches, now it's the internet. People's lives getting destroyed before they're proven guilty happens quite alot these days. Actually that's exactly why we have a system in which "Innocent until proven guilty" is the law. And it should be the public view too.

If you just hear your employee is having weird kids parties then you already fire him even though you don't have any evidence or have seen it yourself? Great boss you are. Maybe some f**ked up mom was just pissed her boy wasn't invited to a birthday party and spread the rumor?

If this happened during a season they could and should have suspended him during the pending investigation or trial. But nothings going on right now so it's ok they don't just cut him off right away but wait.

Nah, I didn’t say weird. I said found out, as in with evidence. And you might think I’m a bad boss but innocent until proven guilty is not the law pertaining to health and safety. Personally, I’m not putting kids at risk if I’ve got evidence but I guess we’re a different type of boss.
 
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Streifenkarl

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Nah, I didn’t say weird. I said found out, as in with evidence. And you might think I’m a bad boss but innocent until proven guilty is not the law pertaining to health and safety. Personally, I’m not putting putting kids at risk if I’ve got evidence but I guess we’re a different type of boss.
Then that's a totally different thing. To make your analogy fit, Jerry would have had to be present right when it happened. We don't know exactly who said what and when, only that our rapper boy didn't shoot the guy himself. To me that's not enough to cut him from the team already.

So let's wait and see.
 

DanA

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Then that's a totally different thing. To make your analogy fit, Jerry would have had to be present right when it happened. We don't know exactly who said what and when, only that our rapper boy didn't shoot the guy himself. To me that's not enough to cut him from the team already.

So let's wait and see.

Nah, I’d also consider a lawyer conceeding he was in the car and him not reporting the murder his fellow party members committed until he was identified 4 weeks later as pretty cut and dry evidence.

And I’d also consider standing down a player as a minimal response for accessory to murder.
 
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baltcowboy

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Fair enough.

My personal opinion is that the situation was tragic, but it’s not impossible to understand why Joseph was with those guys or why he didn’t come to authorities.

Joseph is from South Baton Rouge, if you know anything about that area then you can understand my drift. Certain communities generationally don’t go to the police for anything and living in areas like that with rampant poverty and crime you’re going to have unsavory friends. I’m willing to bet every NFL player who’s come from one of these underprivileged backgrounds has friends with shady pasts or felonious records. Just an unfortunate reality of growing up in some of these areas.

Therefore I’m not shocked he was with childhood friends who were shady. Yes, we want guys to shed those bad influences once they get to D1/the NFL but it’s not that simple. To expect a 20 something year old kid to just drop most of his childhood friends like hot potatoes is a bit unrealistic. And for the record I’m not saying what he’s done is right, I’m just adding the real context as to why some of these guys get into messed up situations.

As for the failing to report the incident, I would like to bring back the point of certain communities not contacting police as well as the idea that reporting a murder is some simple thing with no possible repercussions. If you are told from your childhood never to talk to the police why would I expect you to do anything different? Again in these communities this philosophy is instilled from childhood.

Secondly, friends can turn to foes real quick. Does nobody understand that him going to the police immediately would’ve put a target on his and his family’s back? Witness tampering is real and violence can happen to anyone testifying to put someone away for years. Once again, this does not excuse the action, but it illuminates the things Joseph would have to consider when going to the police. These circumstances are extremely intense and I would venture to say nobody or very few members of this board have been in that type of situation.

I end my spiel with reiterating that I don’t think what he did was right by any means. But I’m not obtuse to the circumstances that lead to these situations and the whirlwind of things that can happen as a result. Dude has to do a lot of good to make up for what he did, and to the victims family he may never do so. But as unfortunate as the event was the lack of going to police and having those friends is a reality that many young football players could face. Most of these young men do not come from privileged lives and do not have the same thought processes many of us claim to have. I don’t excuse, but I understand where the actions came from given the circumstances.

Thanks for reading lol
I understand Joseph’s background and I work in areas similar to were the kid is from. The police are not your friends in those areas. Joseph was probably taught that at a young age. I just feel that if he was not caught on video this case would have never been solved. I am also taking this personally. I have a real good friend who’s son was murdered at a bar the same exact way the young man was killed in the Joseph case. It happened about 10 years ago and police still have no leads. Since nobody was willing to talk about the incident to the police, my friend does not even know what led to her son being murdered. Even her son’s friends won’t tell her anything. It is heart breaking that you get a visit from the police telling you your son is dead. My friend is living this nightmare every day. Heart breaking………
 

Jarntt

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Fair enough.

My personal opinion is that the situation was tragic, but it’s not impossible to understand why Joseph was with those guys or why he didn’t come to authorities.

Joseph is from South Baton Rouge, if you know anything about that area then you can understand my drift. Certain communities generationally don’t go to the police for anything and living in areas like that with rampant poverty and crime you’re going to have unsavory friends. I’m willing to bet every NFL player who’s come from one of these underprivileged backgrounds has friends with shady pasts or felonious records. Just an unfortunate reality of growing up in some of these areas.

Therefore I’m not shocked he was with childhood friends who were shady. Yes, we want guys to shed those bad influences once they get to D1/the NFL but it’s not that simple. To expect a 20 something year old kid to just drop most of his childhood friends like hot potatoes is a bit unrealistic. And for the record I’m not saying what he’s done is right, I’m just adding the real context as to why some of these guys get into messed up situations.

As for the failing to report the incident, I would like to bring back the point of certain communities not contacting police as well as the idea that reporting a murder is some simple thing with no possible repercussions. If you are told from your childhood never to talk to the police why would I expect you to do anything different? Again in these communities this philosophy is instilled from childhood.

Secondly, friends can turn to foes real quick. Does nobody understand that him going to the police immediately would’ve put a target on his and his family’s back? Witness tampering is real and violence can happen to anyone testifying to put someone away for years. Once again, this does not excuse the action, but it illuminates the things Joseph would have to consider when going to the police. These circumstances are extremely intense and I would venture to say nobody or very few members of this board have been in that type of situation.

I end my spiel with reiterating that I don’t think what he did was right by any means. But I’m not obtuse to the circumstances that lead to these situations and the whirlwind of things that can happen as a result. Dude has to do a lot of good to make up for what he did, and to the victims family he may never do so. But as unfortunate as the event was the lack of going to police and having those friends is a reality that many young football players could face. Most of these young men do not come from privileged lives and do not have the same thought processes many of us claim to have. I don’t excuse, but I understand where the actions came from given the circumstances.

Thanks for reading lol
Great post. I think you summed it up well. Still doesn't mean he shouldn't be suspended, cut or arrested depending on what else comes out from that night and suspended even if nothing new does come out, but those are two separate issues.
 

mahoneybill

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I mean if he didn’t commit the crime and snitched on those who did (they ended up getting arrested) then legally he’s in the clear. He’s probably been granted immunity for his testimony which is pretty common.

Morality and ethics aside if we are talking about his legal ability to play he should be fine based on the current information we have. Now he could definitely get a 4-6 game conduct detrimental suspension but that’s not going to alter their plans for him.
Goodell will go with technicalities if it means dinging the Jones / cowboys
 

Cowboy4ever

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I feel the same today as I did back in the early 90s with the playmaker. Not my job to judge them. The league has rules. If he broke them and their are punishments handed down so be it. If he broke the law and their are punishments to face so be it. But if he is allowed to continue to play so be it. If he is on the team I will support the team. If he is not I will support the team. These guys are not role models. They are for my entertainment. Period. I will let the folks that get paid to stress over these things to the stressing.
 

Cowboys22

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This is just doesn’t cut it for me.

Do you have to wait for a cop to be found guilty before suspending him for a bad shooting?

What if you have an employee that you find out is a peodophile running kids parties, does he keep his job until the guilty verdict?

Innocent until proven guilty might be the law and decide you freedom but it’s not the standard for retaining employment or forming an opinion… and nor should it be.

How about waiting at least until charges aren’t filed. When and if they are, then you will get the details of what the investigation found out about what really happened. If no charges are ever filed against him because he didn’t do anything and ended up cooperating and helped police find the people responsible, then why should he be cut? Maybe the team needs to persuade him that it’s time to stop hanging out in those circles but until the authorities charge him with wrongdoing, I’ve got no problem taking a wait and see approach.
 
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