I'm not saying Dak is better than Mahomes

CowboysFaninHouston said:

very true. it takes both sides of the ball, but there are players who have a higher impact to wins/losses namely QB. that's why a lot of times people equate wins/losses to QBs.

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The only issue I have with this thought process is that nimrods think they can just plug in ANY QB, and that's just not reality. I mean, some fans are honestly comparing Prescott to Dilfer and I'm embarrassed for them.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

no, I don't have to believe. I know it. therein lies the difference. Brady could have come to dallas, we had that opportunity, but the Owner didn't think ahead, didn't have the vision, nor was there interest from Brady. Brady knew his best chance for the next ring is not in dallas. Romo could have done it as he had all the ability, but we didn't have the management and the organization to get it done. thus everyone agrees that Mahomes, Brady or Rodgers effectiveness in Dallas would be diminished because of the culture, owner, GM and organization where the focus is not on football but on the brand. do you think Mahomes could have won with Garrett as headcoach? he could have overcome the disorganization and the coaching incompetency to win a superbowl? tell me that's what you think....

and Dak is not going to be able to do it. given his limitations and the environment he is in. That's why I have said that I am not as excited about cowboys outlook, nor excited about this offseason, training camp or the upcoming season. I don't have any hope we have any chance of winning anything.

you keep barking up the wrong tree looking for something, given you have Dak on your mind and only dak on your mind. you are obsessed. Dak lives in your head rent free.

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You do not "know it". You just have conditioned yourself into believe that if Dak can't do it then nobody else can.

I don't agree that their "effectiveness" would have been diminished in Dallas at all. All we've seen is Romo, Dak, and other QBs here for the past quarter of a century fail over and over and it's skewed your view of QB play.

Do I think Mahomes could have won with Garrett? Absolutely. What had Reid won before Mahomes? Alex Smith had Hill, Kelce, and Reid also. How'd he do? What did he lead the Chiefs to? Mahomes was THAT guy INSTANLTY and has lead the Chiefs to at least the Conference Championship game every year he's started.

You continually fall into the trap of overrated Dak and Romo. There are levels to QB play. Romo and Dak are not at the top of the heap where you can say with 100% certainty that if they can't do it then nobody can.

You think everything is perfect in these other organizations? They have no issues at all? What did Reid win before Mahomes? What did McCarthy win before Rodgers? What did Belichick win before Brady?

Why when it comes to these truly elite talents you want to diminish just how much they, themselves, changed the organization they were a part of because they are great? Does it somehow make you feel better ignoring their contributions because in your mind if you put that aside you can continue to convince yourself that Dak is just being held back?

EST_1986 said:

Gotta love fans being ecstatic about one and done years

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You didn't specify which championship game.

Mavericks
Stars
Cowboys
NBA
NFL
high school
College
Baseball
Hockey
Pee Wee
The list goes on.....

Flamma said:

That's not a legit hope. It's like hoping you win the lottery. I agree with a lot of what you say, but sometimes you go slightly off the rails. Romo was every bit as good or better than Matt Stafford. They are very similar QBs. Although I think both are a bit better than Dak when at their best, with Dak we rarely get those, what the hell were you thinking moments. Dak is not an edge of your seat quarterback. We don't need the 2000 Ravens defense.

My only problem with Dak is I don't like having to pay for a Corvette and receive a Camaro. Then have someone tell me we don't have anything else. Both are great cars, but I just paid north of 100k for a Camaro?

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Its a legit analogy.

SteveTheCowboy said:

Depends how convenient it is for your narrative. Funny how they keep records for QB come-from-behind wins and not...say the center or safety.

https://eatdrinkandsleepfootball.com/stats/nfl/4th-quarter-comebacks/

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Maybe for you.

MountaineerCowboy said:

You do not "know it". You just have conditioned yourself into believe that if Dak can't do it then nobody else can.

I don't agree that their "effectiveness" would have been diminished in Dallas at all. All we've seen is Romo, Dak, and other QBs here for the past quarter of a century fail over and over and it's skewed your view of QB play.

Do I think Mahomes could have won with Garrett? Absolutely. What had Reid won before Mahomes? Alex Smith had Hill, Kelce, and Reid also. How'd he do? What did he lead the Chiefs to? Mahomes was THAT guy INSTANLTY and has lead the Chiefs to at least the Conference Championship game every year he's started.

You continually fall into the trap of overrated Dak and Romo. There are levels to QB play. Romo and Dak are not at the top of the heap where you can say with 100% certainty that if they can't do it then nobody can.

You think everything is perfect in these other organizations? They have no issues at all? What did Reid win before Mahomes? What did McCarthy win before Rodgers? What did Belichick win before Brady?

Why when it comes to these truly elite talents you want to diminish just how much they, themselves, changed the organization they were a part of because they are great? Does it somehow make you feel better ignoring their contributions because in your mind if you put that aside you can continue to convince yourself that Dak is just being held back?

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your personality and mindset screams out in these comments and responses. as I said it and you have clearly shown, to you everything has to be black and white because you are unable to comprehend, understand or live in a gray area. thus given I have not shown to be 100% in agreement with you, in your desparation you are trying to paint me as being on the opposite side and 100% on Dak's side. it makes for very interesting psychology.

I am not skewed in my thought about players coming here and losing effectiveness. you are 100% wrong to think that Garrett, Jones and the dysfunctional Cowboys organization would not impact them. I understand that you are obsessed and Dak lives in your brain 24x7, but we have observed other players who come to dallas and become ineffective. its not just a single thing or another, again a black and white view of the world to you, but many different things that when put together impacts the culture, the organization and the team. Mahomes is supported by a great coach, perhaps a future HOF coach. would Mahomes have reached a CFG with Garrett at the helm? you think yes. you questioned Reid and equate him to Garrett perhaps, a coach who did reach a superbowl and other CFGs with McNabb at the helm. so it was not unprecedented for him to have put together a team and find success. Garrett never sniffed a CFG much less superbowl. he never had post season success. he actually managed to choke big games away to give him a chance to get to post season.

now in regards to your Alex smith comment, I am assuming you are saying it takes talent to win and Dak is not talented. I never argued you don't need talent to win. however, talent alone doesn't equal winning which is your black and white view of the world. otherwise Stafford would minimally reach a CFG game or have multiple playoff wins. he is talented. no denying that.

and no I don't think everything is perfect in any organization anywhere in any business. but some are more dysfunctional than others. I have seen that first hand. those dysfunctional teams that lack the right focus tend to not do as well regardless of talent, unless you want to point to dallas being the highest valued franchise and not dysfunctional, which is where the focus of Cowboys is, not winning at any cost which is the results we have seen so far. in dallas brand matters more than winning.

so I think almost all would agree with me that Romo in another organization would have fared better and the rodger's brady's and mahomes of the world effectiveness would diminish in Dallas. would it diminish to a point where they could not win a superbowl. perhaps they could have overcome the dysfunction. what we know is that Brady was a FA and chose to go to Tampa. Jerry Jones reputation precedes him.

you are really struggling. not sure how I can help you

MountaineerCowboy said:

You do not "know it". You just have conditioned yourself into believe that if Dak can't do it then nobody else can.

I don't agree that their "effectiveness" would have been diminished in Dallas at all. All we've seen is Romo, Dak, and other QBs here for the past quarter of a century fail over and over and it's skewed your view of QB play.

Do I think Mahomes could have won with Garrett? Absolutely. What had Reid won before Mahomes? Alex Smith had Hill, Kelce, and Reid also. How'd he do? What did he lead the Chiefs to? Mahomes was THAT guy INSTANLTY and has lead the Chiefs to at least the Conference Championship game every year he's started.

You continually fall into the trap of overrated Dak and Romo. There are levels to QB play. Romo and Dak are not at the top of the heap where you can say with 100% certainty that if they can't do it then nobody can.

You think everything is perfect in these other organizations? They have no issues at all? What did Reid win before Mahomes? What did McCarthy win before Rodgers? What did Belichick win before Brady?

Why when it comes to these truly elite talents you want to diminish just how much they, themselves, changed the organization they were a part of because they are great? Does it somehow make you feel better ignoring their contributions because in your mind if you put that aside you can continue to convince yourself that Dak is just being held back?

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Good post, but the Dak slobberers wont take the time to look at what is relevant.
They wont bother to look at the real numbers and how they effect the entire build of the roster, just Dak Stat positive when getting blown out only.
The Dak lovers all have one thing in common, and they should, its being so scared that we can never ever draft a real franchise QB.
They would rather just keep supporting the just good enough narrative.
Problem is that Dak is good enough to keep the Cowboys relevant in the NFC east and winning div titles, but will never be good enough to compete when it matters most.
This fan base has accepted that level of success and its really sad to everyone but the FO.
Cowboys FO loves this satisfied generation still buying merch.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

your personality and mindset screams out in these comments and responses. as I said it and you have clearly shown, to you everything has to be black and white because you are unable to comprehend, understand or live in a gray area. thus given I have not shown to be 100% in agreement with you, in your desparation you are trying to paint me as being on the opposite side and 100% on Dak's side. it makes for very interesting psychology.

I am not skewed in my thought about players coming here and losing effectiveness. you are 100% wrong to think that Garrett, Jones and the dysfunctional Cowboys organization would not impact them. I understand that you are obsessed and Dak lives in your brain 24x7, but we have observed other players who come to dallas and become ineffective. its not just a single thing or another, again a black and white view of the world to you, but many different things that when put together impacts the culture, the organization and the team. Mahomes is supported by a great coach, perhaps a future HOF coach. would Mahomes have reached a CFG with Garrett at the helm? you think yes. you questioned Reid and equate him to Garrett perhaps, a coach who did reach a superbowl and other CFGs with McNabb at the helm. so it was not unprecedented for him to have put together a team and find success. Garrett never sniffed a CFG much less superbowl. he never had post season success. he actually managed to choke big games away to give him a chance to get to post season.

now in regards to your Alex smith comment, I am assuming you are saying it takes talent to win and Dak is not talented. I never argued you don't need talent to win. however, talent alone doesn't equal winning which is your black and white view of the world. otherwise Stafford would minimally reach a CFG game or have multiple playoff wins. he is talented. no denying that.

and no I don't think everything is perfect in any organization anywhere in any business. but some are more dysfunctional than others. I have seen that first hand. those dysfunctional teams that lack the right focus tend to not do as well regardless of talent, unless you want to point to dallas being the highest valued franchise and not dysfunctional, which is where the focus of Cowboys is, not winning at any cost which is the results we have seen so far. in dallas brand matters more than winning.

so I think almost all would agree with me that Romo in another organization would have fared better and the rodger's brady's and mahomes of the world effectiveness would diminish in Dallas. would it diminish to a point where they could not win a superbowl. perhaps. what we know is that Brady was a FA and chose to go to Tampa. Jerry Jones reputation precedes him.

you are really struggling. not sure how I can help you

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Can you prescribe medication?

Quarterbacks get a bit too much credit in the NFL.

Folks here and elsewhere think if a quarterback wins on one team then they could win on any team.

But if that's the case, why did Brees win only 1 SB? And before anyone brings up the horrible missed p.i. call, for instance, if Brees was the reason for the SB win, why were the Saints behind in that game at the end? Rodgers is a multiple MVP, yet has won to date only 1 SB. Same for HOF quarterbacks like Stabler, Dawson, Namath and Young. Russell Wilson & Kurt Waner have only 1 SB win each.

Yet somehow Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hoesteter, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Jim McMahon and Phil Simms managed to win one also. None of them has a snowball's chance of making the HOF.

No one can say that "if we just had Mahomes, etc. then we'd win a SB or two or three. " Great as Roger was, he lost 2 SBs as well as won 2.

It's still a team game...

G2 said:

Can you prescribe medication?

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its not effective for some if its engrained in their DNA. I can't change DNA LOL

CowboysFaninHouston said:

your personality and mindset screams out in these comments and responses. as I said it and you have clearly shown, to you everything has to be black and white because you are unable to comprehend, understand or live in a gray area. thus given I have not shown to be 100% in agreement with you, in your desparation you are trying to paint me as being on the opposite side and 100% on Dak's side. it makes for very interesting psychology.

I am not skewed in my thought about players coming here and losing effectiveness. you are 100% wrong to think that Garrett, Jones and the dysfunctional Cowboys organization would not impact them. I understand that you are obsessed and Dak lives in your brain 24x7, but 1. we have observed other players who come to dallas and become ineffective. its not just a single thing or another, again a black and white view of the world to you, but many different things that when put together impacts the culture, the organization and the team. Mahomes is supported by a great coach, perhaps a future HOF coach. would Mahomes have reached a CFG with Garrett at the helm? you think yes. you questioned Reid and equate him to Garrett perhaps, a coach who did reach a superbowl and other CFGs with McNabb at the helm. so it was not unprecedented for him to have put together a team and find success. Garrett never sniffed a CFG much less superbowl. he never had post season success. he actually managed to choke big games away to give him a chance to get to post season.

2. now in regards to your Alex smith comment, I am assuming you are saying it takes talent to win and Dak is not talented. I never argued you don't need talent to win. however, talent alone doesn't equal winning which is your black and white view of the world. 3. otherwise Stafford would minimally reach a CFG game or have multiple playoff wins. he is talented. no denying that.

and no I don't think everything is perfect in any organization anywhere in any business. but some are more dysfunctional than others. I have seen that first hand. those dysfunctional teams that lack the right focus tend to not do as well regardless of talent, unless you want to point to dallas being the highest valued franchise and not dysfunctional, which is where the focus of Cowboys is, not winning at any cost which is the results we have seen so far. in dallas brand matters more than winning.

4. so I think almost all would agree with me that Romo in another organization would have fared better and the rodger's brady's and mahomes of the world effectiveness would diminish in Dallas. would it diminish to a point where they could not win a superbowl. perhaps. what we know is that Brady was a FA and chose to go to Tampa. Jerry Jones reputation precedes him.

you are really struggling. not sure how I can help you

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1. You're saying that you believe Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes would lose effectiveness here. So, I challenge you to name the great QBs we've brought in that have become ineffective as proof of this outlandish claim.

2 The Alex Smith thing was to point out that you downplaying the greatness of Mahomes to elevate Dak as being held back by everything around him is foolish. Because look what Smith did with Kelce, Hill, and Reid. He did nothing. When Mahomes took over with the same team Smith had they instantly became contenders and have been contenders since. The only major change that did that was changing QBs.

3. I never claimed you didn't need a team to do things. The problem for you and your argument is that Dak has had a solid team around him. It's been much more solid that a lot of QBs ever got. How many QBs start their careers with the NFL's leading rusher, three 1st team all-pro linemen, a HOF TE, and the organizations all time TD reception leader? Stafford NEVER had that in Detroit. Dak had more his rookie year than Stafford got the whole time he was in Detroit. This is just another attempt to try and make it seem like Dak and Stafford's situation was similar and when Stafford got a new team is when he really took off, implying that if Dak had that he could do the same.

4. If they would agree with you then they are just doing so because they want to believe Romo is better than he was and the only reason other guys do better is because they have better things around them. Although I believe Romo had much worse teams around him than Dak did I don't believe you could just throw him on the Packer, Pats, or Chiefs and they're winning the same. Reid, Belichick, and McCarthy have won nothing without Mahomes, Brady, and Rodgers and they've been coaching longer than those QBs have been playing.

Typhus said:

Good post, but the Dak slobberers wont take the time to look at what is relevant.
They wont bother to look at the real numbers and how they effect the entire build of the roster, just Dak Stat positive when getting blown out only.
The Dak lovers all have one thing in common, and they should, its being so scared that we can never ever draft a real franchise QB.
They would rather just keep supporting the just good enough narrative.
Problem is that Dak is good enough to keep the Cowboys relevant in the NFC east and winning div titles, but will never be good enough to compete when it matters most.
This fan base has accepted that level of success and its really sad to everyone but the FO.
Cowboys FO loves this satisfied generation still buying merch.

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They are obsessed with trying to diminish the greatness of guys like Rodgers, Mahomes, or Brady and instead putting the praise on the coaches that never won anything before they had those guys at QB.

They believe that if they can downplay the effect of their greatness at the QB position had in the changing of their organization then they can also convince themselves (and unforntunetley others) to believe that Dak is being held back by the Cowboys. That he's just as great as Rodgers, Mahomes, or Brady, but those guys just had more help around them. They were just lucky, blah blah blah.

I mean you have this poster saying that if Mahomes, Brady, or Rodgers came to Dallas they would be less effective. Why is Dak's talent the barometer for how a QB would fair with this organization? Why is the barometer a 4th round pick (Dak) and an undrafted guy (Romo)? You have to be small brained to use those guys level of talent to make such a claim as "Well, Mahomes, Brady, and Rodgers would be less effective here than they are on their current teams". I mean, Brady literally proved that going to another team doesn't matter. Talent is talent and it goes anywhere.

They are trying to bring those guys down to Dak's level instead of expecting better from Dak.

MountaineerCowboy said:

1. You're saying that you believe Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes would lose effectiveness here. So, I challenge you to name the great QBs we've brought in that have become ineffective as proof of this outlandish claim.

2 The Alex Smith thing was to point out that you downplaying the greatness of Mahomes to elevate Dak as being held back by everything around him is foolish. Because look what Smith did with Kelce, Hill, and Reid. He did nothing. When Mahomes took over with the same team Smith had they instantly became contenders and have been contenders since. The only major change that did that was changing QBs.

3. I never claimed you didn't need a team to do things. The problem for you and your argument is that Dak has had a solid team around him. It's been much more solid that a lot of QBs ever got. How many QBs start their careers with the NFL's leading rusher, three 1st team all-pro linemen, a HOF TE, and the organizations all time TD reception leader? Stafford NEVER had that in Detroit. Dak had more his rookie year than Stafford got the whole time he was in Detroit. This is just another attempt to try and make it seem like Dak and Stafford's situation was similar and when Stafford got a new team is when he really took off, implying that if Dak had that he could do the same.

4. If they would agree with you then they are just doing so because they want to believe Romo is better than he was and the only reason other guys do better is because they have better things around them. Although I believe Romo had much worse teams around him than Dak did I don't believe you could just throw him on the Packer, Pats, or Chiefs and they're winning the same. Reid, Belichick, and McCarthy have won nothing without Mahomes, Brady, and Rodgers and they've been coaching longer than those QBs have been playing.

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1- None have been brought here, because they probably would refuse. Romo who was a regular probowler, one of the better QBs in the league during his time could not overcome the dysfunction. and by the same token you can not prove that any of those QBs coming to dallas would not lose effectiveness. Would tey fare better than Dak? defintely...the talent alone would guarantee that. but no gaurantee that they could win superbowls, reach CFG or accomplish what they have with their current teams....Provide proof that they would be just as effective. in essence your word is as good as mine.

2- I have never downplayed effectiveness of Mahomes. I challenge you on that. in fact I have always said it takes talent to win, it takes the right talent combination to win and no one, no matter how talented are able to do it by themselves and some have more impact to the team than others. perhaps Alex Smith wasn't talented at all, have you considered that!? . not sure where you going with this line of reasonining (or lack thereof). Proof is that Reid was able to find success with McNabb who was probably more talented than Alex Smith....

3- and I have said it several times subsequent to 2021. I don't think Dak is able to lift this team and he will need a lot of help to overcome many short comings. I just don't think we have that talent on the team, thus I have mentioned I hold no hope for 2022. what's your point? you are hung up and solely focused on "Dak sucks" mind set. I think everyone gets it. so why repeat the same thing incessently over and over again. what's your point?

4- I never said that putting Romo on Packs, etc. and he would do the same as those others. I clearly said he would fare better than he did in dallas. you are fishing again for something, trying to spin something but you have confused yourself. again your black and white view of the world. are you seriously going to tell me that if Bilicheck was cowboys headcoach with Romo that Romo wouldn't fair better? or that if Romo was with Pats, that he wouldn't have better results than he did in Dallas....so you don't get tizzy again, I am not saying he would be able to do what Brady did, but that he would have better results in a better organization and better coaching. not a hard concept to grasp.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

1- None have been brought here, because they probably would refuse. Romo who was a regular probowler, one of the better QBs in the league during his time could not overcome the dysfunction. and by the same token you can not prove that any of those QBs coming to dallas would not lose effectiveness. Would tey fare better than Dak? defintely...the talent alone would guarantee that. but no gaurantee that they could win superbowls, reach CFG or accomplish what they have with their current teams....Provide proof that they would be just as effective. in essence your word is as good as mine.

2- I have never downplayed effectiveness of Mahomes. I challenge you on that. in fact I have always said it takes talent to win, it takes the right talent combination to win and no one, no matter how talented are able to do it by themselves and some have more impact to the team than others. perhaps Alex Smith wasn't talented at all, have you considered that!? . not sure where you going with this line of reasonining (or lack thereof). Proof is that Reid was able to find success with McNabb who was probably more talented than Alex Smith....

3- and I have said it several times subsequent to 2021. I don't think Dak is able to lift this team and he will need a lot of help to overcome many short comings. I just don't think we have that talent on the team, thus I have mentioned I hold no hope for 2022. what's your point? you are hung up and solely focused on "Dak sucks" mind set. I think everyone gets it. so why repeat the same thing incessently over and over again. what's your point?

4- I never said that putting Romo on Packs, etc. and he would do the same as those others. I clearly said he would fare better than he did in dallas. you are fishing again for something, trying to spin something but you have confused yourself. again your black and white view of the world. are you seriously going to tell me that if Bilicheck was cowboys headcoach with Romo that Romo wouldn't fair better? or that if Romo was with Pats, that he wouldn't have better results than he did in Dallas....so you don't get tizzy again, I am not saying he would be able to do what Brady did, but that he would have better results in a better organization and better coaching. not a hard concept to grasp.

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1. The thing about another QB not wanting to come here is a complete assumption and another case of you seeming like that's what you want to believe that so you can feel more comfortable in your agenda. I agree, there is no proof that they would win here, but you've already basically branded them losers if they came to Dallas because Dak and Romo haven't won anything. Dak and Romo should not be used as your barometer.

2. How many rings does Reid have with QBs not named Mahomes? That's the point. He's a great coach, sure, but he was fired from one place and was doing nothing of importance on the Chiefs until Mahomes came around and Mahomes is the lucky one in that relationship? The same goes for Belichick, fired from the Browns, and then gets Brady, but the guy that has went on to win a Super Bowl without him and he's the lucky one in that relationship?

3. You are using Dak and Romo as your barometer. You said right there that you do not believe Dak is able to lift the team, so then why act like Mahomes, Brady, or Rodgers also couldn't lift the team? Why do you insist on bringing them down to Dak's and Romo's level? You have no idea if they would be less effective here and they have shown no signs whatsoever that would be the case. The only true example we have is Brady, and he for sure wasn't less effective in a different organization.

4. I cannot subscribe to the mindset of thinking that because Brady was great that any QB's career would have faired better if they were under the same conditions. I just can't. Because talent is talent. That organization and that coach is only considered great today because of Tom Brady. That's what you seem to not understand. You're looking at things with rose colored glasses. The Pats weren't considered this great organization before Brady. The same way the Chiefs weren't considered this great organization before Mahomes. Belichick and Reid were both the coaches of these organizations before Brady and Mahomes arrived and nobody thought anything of them. It wasn't until those QB talents came into the picture that their legacies and their organizations legacies changed for the better.

almost 40 pages cmon guys you can do it

MountaineerCowboy said:

I agree.

I too believe that with a good defense Romo or Dak could/could've be/been Trent Dilfere'd to a Super Bowl. That's the hope I have right now.

I root for the Cowboys success, not a single players. I will handle Cowboys success just fine, but if you think I'm going to hop on the Dak train if he puts up pretty stats that when analyzed are empty while leading us to 8-9 then you're wildly mistaken there.

My question will be what happen when others finally start to realize that Dak ain't it? Do they double down because they're in too deep or do they man up and admit they were wrong about him?

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Do you mean again? That is, that you will jump on the Dak wagon again like you did after his great start?

PAPPYDOG said:

LOL....Didn't post while you Dak Lovers were feeling ohhh soooo good (Why Ruin a good fantasy) when he was beating up those dog teams then once again all of you hit the pavement of reality when he faced teams like the Cards and Niners.
Dak is Dak.....Tier 3 needs to be carried Garbage stats collecting QB!!!

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You were embarrassed. And righty so. Admit it. Yiu handled succeed poorly. I’m pretty sure it was two different times, right?

No complaints. Most were happy to see you take a break.

DogFace said:

Do you mean again? That is, that you will jump on the Dak wagon again like you did after his great start?

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You can call it again if ya want, but either way I'm done falling for the fools gold.

You'll get there too.

MountaineerCowboy said:

1. The thing about another QB not wanting to come here is a complete assumption and another case of you seeming like that's what you want to believe that so you can feel more comfortable in your agenda. I agree, there is no proof that they would win here, but you've already basically branded them losers if they came to Dallas because Dak and Romo haven't won anything. Dak and Romo should not be used as your barometer.

2. How many rings does Reid have with QBs not named Mahomes? That's the point. He's a great coach, sure, but he was fired from one place and was doing nothing of importance on the Chiefs until Mahomes came around and Mahomes is the lucky one in that relationship? The same goes for Belichick, fired from the Browns, and then gets Brady, but the guy that has went on to win a Super Bowl without him and he's the lucky one in that relationship?

3. You are using Dak and Romo as your barometer. You said right there that you do not believe Dak is able to lift the team, so then why act like Mahomes, Brady, or Rodgers also couldn't lift the team? Why do you insist on bringing them down to Dak's and Romo's level? You have no idea if they would be less effective here and they have shown no signs whatsoever that would be the case. The only true example we have is Brady, and he for sure wasn't less effective in a different organization.

4. I cannot subscribe to the mindset of thinking that because Brady was great that any QB's career would have faired better if they were under the same conditions. I just can't. Because talent is talent. That organization and that coach is only considered great today because of Tom Brady. That's what you seem to not understand. You're looking at things with rose colored glasses. The Pats weren't considered this great organization before Brady. The same way the Chiefs weren't considered this great organization before Mahomes. Belichick and Reid were both the coaches of these organizations before Brady and Mahomes arrived and nobody thought anything of them. It wasn't until those QB talents came into the picture that their legacies and their organizations legacies changed for the better.

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1- unlike you, who has clearly shown having an agenda, I have none. Tell me a QB that wanted to come to dallas? or there was even a rumor of it. Jones could have chosen to pursue Brady instead of tagging Dak. he didn't even consider it? why? because he loves Dak? or that Brady would never consider dallas. I mean who in their freaking right mind would not want Brady? and I never branded anyone a loser. that's your terminology for someone who doesn't win a championship. I know you went down that path and given your stubborness you are sticking to it.

2- now you tried to move the goal post. again as you always try to do. Reid didn't have a ring without mahomes. never denied it. But as I said it and you are trying to spin your way out of it, he did go to CFGs and superbowls with McNabb. you can't deny that. as I said before, Garrett didn't sniff neither nor come close. secondly don't try to make up stuff and stick them in the conversation. I never said Mahomes was lucky. those are your words. you are oh so desparately trying to change the narrative so you can say you won the argument. facts, clearly available for you to google and verify shows Reid made the superbowl and multiple CFGs while with philly. you in the past had used those as a measure of success, reaching CFGs or superbowls. now you are moving your own goal post.

3- I believe you have a comprehension or reading problem. I never said Mahomes, Brady or Rodgers wouldn't lift this team. those are your words and they won't stick. again, your failed attempt at yet another spin. I just said I don't think they would fare better in Dallas than their current teams (in case of Brady than Patriots or Tampa). Prove me wrong. and its your child like take that I am bringing them down. no, I am saying that the Dallas dysfunctional organization would bring them down. I never said they are bad or diminish who they are. in fact its a complement to them being able to lift this franchise to anything if they would ever be here. again. you failed.

4- so you don't think that Bilicheck and Patriot organization would have an impact to other players or QBs. Brady's talent stands on its own. that many superbowls. that many CFGs. that's talent. there is a reason he is the goat. but its simple, Stafford. in Detroit he couldnt' overcome the incompetency of the organization and the coaches there. with Rams, he has a superbowl ring in his first year with them. its really not that hard of a concept. McVay couldn't get it done with Goff and thus went with Stafford. again, not that hard of a concept that a coach can help a player. in your black and white view, its unidirectional. however reality is that its bidirectional, the coach helping the player and the player helping the coach. it takes both.

you are really simple minded or really failing at driving your agenda. this is not win/lose argument, but I can see you doing this because again, everything to you is black and white.

MountaineerCowboy said:

You can call it again if ya want, but either way I'm done falling for the fools gold.

You'll get there too.

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Ok. We will see. This season will tell a lot of that story.