I'm not saying Dak is better than Mahomes

lk8701

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Point 1: Mahomes played in 73 games, Dak only 56 and Dak still has him beat in 400 yard games.

Point 2: Mahomes has a god-like receiving unit. Dak has a very good receiving unit but it doesn't compare to Mahomes'. Kelce + Hill > by far anyone we got. Cowboys are receivers by committee. Chiefs have a receiving unit that have been proven unstoppable by 31 teams.

Point 3: Wins are a team accomplishment, so Mahomes didn't win those games on his own.


Again, Mahomes > Dak overall because of his Super Bowl and his postseason accomplishments, but lots of his games are simply because Chiefs are good enough to jump ahead and beat teams without Mahomes needing to do much. Cowboys has a bad defense most of the times, 0 dominant D-linemen, a used up starting running back, and an O-Line that blew the SF playoff game badly. Mahomes O-Line was horrendous in the Super Bowl, but at least they chose the last game of the year to be bad in.


Thoughts?


Kevin Love once averaged 26 points and 13 rebounds on the Timberwolves. Dak is the Kevin Love of QBs.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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1- unlike you, who has clearly shown having an agenda, I have none. Tell me a QB that wanted to come to dallas? or there was even a rumor of it. Jones could have chosen to pursue Brady instead of tagging Dak. he didn't even consider it? why? because he loves Dak? or that Brady would never consider dallas. I mean who in their freaking right mind would not want Brady? and I never branded anyone a loser. that's your terminology for someone who doesn't win a championship. I know you went down that path and given your stubborness you are sticking to it.

2- now you tried to move the goal post. Reid didn't have a ring without mahomes. never denied it. But as I said it and you are trying to spin your way out of it, he did go to CFGs and superbowls with McNabb. you can't deny that. as I said before, Garrett didn't sniff neither nor come close. secondly don't try to make up stuff and stick them in the conversation. I never said Mahomes was lucky. those are your words. you are oh so desparately trying to change the narrative so you can say you won the argument. facts, clearly available for you to google and verify shows Reid made the superbowl and multiple CFGs while with philly. you in the past had used those as a measure of success, reaching CFGs or superbowls. now you are moving your own goal post.

3- I believe you have a comprehension or reading problem. I never said Mahomes, Brady or Rodgers wouldn't life this team. those are your words and they won't stick. again, your failed attempt at yet another spin. I just said I don't think they would fare better in Dallas than their current teams (in case of Brady than Patriots or Tampa). Prove me wrong. and its your child like take that I am bringing them down. no, I am saying that the Dallas dysfunctional organization would bring them down. I never said they are bad or diminish who they are. in fact its a complement to them being able to lift this franchise to anything if they would ever be here. again. you failed.

4- so you don't think that Bilicheck and Patriot organization would have an impact to other players or QBs. Brady's talent stands on its own. that many superbowls. that many CFGs. that's talent. there is a reason he is the goat. but its simple, Stafford. in Detroit he couldnt' overcome the incompetency of the organization and the coaches there. with Rams, he has a superbowl ring in his first year with them. its really not that hard of a concept. McVay couldn't get it done with Goff and thus went with Stafford. again, not that hard of a concept that a coach can help a player. in your black and white view, its unidirectional. however reality is that its bidirectional, the coach helping the player and the player helping the coach. it takes both.

you are really simple minded or really failing at driving your agenda. this is not win/lose argument, but I can see you doing this because again, everything to you is black and white.
1. They aren't trying to get a QB in free agency. They've hitched their wagons to undrafted/4th round talents at QB for the past 15 years. Jerry signing Brady would basically be like him hiring Jimmy Johnson. If we won with Brady then the credit wouldn't go to Jerry, but winning with Dak, Jerry's draft pick, now that is what Jerry wants. Because Jerry could say I drafted that guy! I knew he could do it! I believed in him! I'm smarter than all of yous!

2. Okay, but what did that get him in Philly other than fired? What has Reid ever won without Mahomes? Who cares what he did in Philly? He was known as a guy that couldn't get the job done. Mahomes has changed his narrative from a guy that couldn't get it done to a HOFer. That's what a real QB can do for ya.

3. Why wouldn't they fair better? Because you're using Dak as your barometer? You 100% are attempting to bring their talent level down to Dak's talent level to fit your "Dak is in a bad situation" agenda.

4. I agree with you with the Goff/Mcvey/Stafford take. Why don't you feel that way about Dak though? Do you agree that we'd be better trading off our less successful Goff (Dak) and bringing in our Matt Stafford to take us to the next level like the Rams did? Or are you still supporting the idea that it wouldn't matter because of the organization? That no matter what it's destined to fail? I just wish you all would understand that 90% of your opinions when it comes to QB play is based around a 4th round talent and an undrafted talent. There are QBs out there MUCH better than these guys are/were. Yes, the organization is flawed, but so has been the most important player (the QB) in that organization for the past 20 some odd years. You get a truly talented QB and everything can change.

If you keep insulting me with petty comments we can stop this back and forth. I let it slide a few times because I thought we were getting some understanding and actually having a football discussion, but you keep wanting to throw insults in and that's where I'll stop. We can talk civil, but be forewarned that if your responds contains pettiness I'll not respond further about this.
 

starfan1

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Almost 40 pages of fans bickering about how other fans fan.

"You don't respect Dak...you fool!"
"Well....as it happens you've admitted to not respecting zeke!"
"That's different!".

Human beings....lol.
.40 pages of blowhard fans thinking they are right and liking to hear themselves talk. You know i have noticed that anything dak related with you is always Zeke related as well. Its as if the 2 cant be separated by you. Im thinking this obsession you have with Zeke is a bit over the top. Does he know? LOL
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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1. They aren't trying to get a QB in free agency. They've hitched their wagons to undrafted/4th round talents at QB for the past 15 years. Jerry signing Brady would basically be like him hiring Jimmy Johnson. If we won with Brady then the credit wouldn't go to Jerry, but winning with Dak, Jerry's draft pick, now that is what Jerry wants. Because Jerry could say I drafted that guy! I knew he could do it! I believed in him! I'm smarter than all of yous!

2. Okay, but what did that get him in Philly other than fired? What has Reid ever won without Mahomes? Who cares what he did in Philly? He was known as a guy that couldn't get the job done. Mahomes has changed his narrative from a guy that couldn't get it done to a HOFer. That's what a real QB can do for ya.

3. Why wouldn't they fair better? Because you're using Dak as your barometer? You 100% are attempting to bring their talent level down to Dak's talent level to fit your "Dak is in a bad situation" agenda.

4. I agree with you with the Goff/Mcvey/Stafford take. Why don't you feel that way about Dak though? Do you agree that we'd be better trading off our less successful Goff (Dak) and bringing in our Matt Stafford to take us to the next level like the Rams did? Or are you still supporting the idea that it wouldn't matter because of the organization? That no matter what it's destined to fail? I just wish you all would understand that 90% of your opinions when it comes to QB play is based around a 4th round talent and an undrafted talent. There are QBs out there MUCH better than these guys are/were. Yes, the organization is flawed, but so has been the most important player (the QB) in that organization for the past 20 some odd years. You get a truly talented QB and everything can change.

If you keep insulting me with petty comments we can stop this back and forth. I let it slide a few times because I thought we were getting some understanding and actually having a football discussion, but you keep wanting to throw insults in and that's where I'll stop. We can talk civil, but be forewarned that if your responds contains pettiness I'll not respond further about this.
1- so you agree with me on Dallas being a dysfunctional organization. Jerry wanting his draft pick instead of a better player to help the team....that's just a single example of many dysfunctions.

2- again, you yourself in the past have said some measures of success including appearance in CFG games and superbowl....Reid has done that. garrett didn't. so the two aren't equal. will never be equal. don't try to spin it into some other argument......

3- what does one have to do with another. Dak is not a barometer as you are once again trying so desparately to stick him in the conversation. IMHO, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes wouldn't fare better on the cowboys than their current teams. has nothing to do with Dak. Brady wouldn't have won 7 superbowls with Dallas. Rodgers wouldn't reach as many championship games and perhaps never win a superbowl. Mahomes wouldn't the same. it has nothing to do with Dak. I just don't think Dallas is focused on winning. you said as much in #1 bullet. if we were about winning, we would have chased Brady. instead Jerry is trying to prove himself right.

4- I never disagreed with that. I think we would be better with Stafford than Dak. I just don't think we will win superbowl under Jerry jones with any QB. the organization has a lot to do with it. when the head coach is told don't touch the OC. including the new coach, that's dysfunction. when the GM cancels contact practices because one of his players got injured in practice. that's dysfunction. when the GM hires the OC before the headcoach, that's dysfunction. when the GM gives a talk after a game instead of the coach, that's dysfunction. when focus is on brand as many players who left dallas have said, that's dysfunction. we trade our WR for a 5th because he didn't like that he didn't get vaccinated and missed games, Tenn trades theirs for top 20 pick. that's dysfunction. we can get a talented QB. things may look better, but Jerry will insert himself in the process again and ruin it. and as you said in #1 above, unless we draft that QB, I don't see him conceding to bringing in the right QB to help this team. this organization screams dysfunction.


again, I hold no hope for us to win a championship while Jerry is the GM and Owner. somehow, someway he will meddle and ruin it. its inevitable.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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.40 pages of blowhard fans thinking they are right and liking to hear themselves talk. You know i have noticed that anything dak related with you is always Zeke related as well. Its as if the 2 cant be separated by you. Im thinking this obsession you have with Zeke is a bit over the top. Does he know? LOL
Oh he knows alright!

The problem I had is very simple. The problem is the hypocrisy of it. These guys continue to bash Mountaineer for his less than stellar opinion of Dak...do the same thing to Zeke.

It is..of course related.

"Oh but Zeke is different". Maybe to you...and them. And that is FINE. Bash away on zeke. But then....have the nerve to let others bash who THEY want.

See? Very simple.
 

Typhus

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They are obsessed with trying to diminish the greatness of guys like Rodgers, Mahomes, or Brady and instead putting the praise on the coaches that never won anything before they had those guys at QB.

They believe that if they can downplay the effect of their greatness at the QB position had in the changing of their organization then they can also convince themselves (and unforntunetley others) to believe that Dak is being held back by the Cowboys. That he's just as great as Rodgers, Mahomes, or Brady, but those guys just had more help around them. They were just lucky, blah blah blah.

I mean you have this poster saying that if Mahomes, Brady, or Rodgers came to Dallas they would be less effective. Why is Dak's talent the barometer for how a QB would fair with this organization? Why is the barometer a 4th round pick (Dak) and an undrafted guy (Romo)? You have to be small brained to use those guys level of talent to make such a claim as "Well, Mahomes, Brady, and Rodgers would be less effective here than they are on their current teams". I mean, Brady literally proved that going to another team doesn't matter. Talent is talent and it goes anywhere.

They are trying to bring those guys down to Dak's level instead of expecting better from Dak.
Outside of a couple teams , Dak wouldnt even be a starting QB in this league.
The fans that disagree with this are conditioned to the point of just good enough status, and thats a reflection of a fan base that sadly is unable to recognize what a "ceiling" is.
Those that believe Dak is going to magically improve even with an improved OL clearly have no definition of the term "ceiling".
An improved OL will preserve Daks tenure, but will not transform Daks inherent natural flaws.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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Outside of a couple teams , Dak wouldnt even be a starting QB in this league.
The fans that disagree with this are conditioned to the point of just good enough status, and thats a reflection of a fan base that sadly is unable to recognize what a "ceiling" is.
Those that believe Dak is going to magically improve even with an improved OL clearly have no definition of the term "ceiling".
An improved OL will preserve Daks tenure, but will not transform Daks inherent natural flaws.
The improved O-line narrative is what's most clueless.

Dak has played with an O-line that had three 1st team all-pro's on it and did nothing with it.

How many QBs have the luxury of having three first-team all pro linemen at the same time?!

If that's not proof that an improved O-line is not going to matter then they are just trolling.
 

Typhus

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The improved O-line narrative is what's most clueless.

Dak has played with an O-line that had three 1st team all-pro's on it and did nothing with it.

How many QBs have the luxury of having three first-team all pro linemen at the same time?!

If that's not proof that an improved O-line is not going to matter then they are just trolling.
Stafford is a prime example of a QB with a higher ceiling just being in a bad situation, Dak could not have made the same transition with success.
 

5Stars

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Stafford is a prime example of a QB with a higher ceiling just being in a bad situation, Dak could not have made the same transition with success.

He might? I mean he has tons of 400 yard games. Put him on the Bears and he wins a SB.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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The improved O-line narrative is what's most clueless.

Dak has played with an O-line that had three 1st team all-pro's on it and did nothing with it.

How many QBs have the luxury of having three first-team all pro linemen at the same time?!

If that's not proof that an improved O-line is not going to matter then they are just trolling.
A 1st round stud RB. 2 1st round WRs (Amari was a trade but was drafted 1st round). Somehow, I don't know HOW....last years o-line allegedly rated one of the best?

That's a is a LOT of talent that many lower round QB's would NEVER sniff, since the 1st round QB's get drafted by crappy teams...well...okay teams with a low winning %.

I'm not saying Dak sucks or doesn't suck. I'm just saying...that is a LOT of 1st round talent. I bet even the people that ignore or argue this, have posts complaining about lack of attention to the defense during drafts.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Outside of a couple teams , Dak wouldnt even be a starting QB in this league.
The fans that disagree with this are conditioned to the point of just good enough status, and thats a reflection of a fan base that sadly is unable to recognize what a "ceiling" is.
Those that believe Dak is going to magically improve even with an improved OL clearly have no definition of the term "ceiling".
An improved OL will preserve Daks tenure, but will not transform Daks inherent natural flaws.
Can you expound on Dak's "natural flaws"?

Be careful...I am asking you sincerely with respect. But there are forces about that will crucify you if you mis-step.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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.40 pages of blowhard fans thinking they are right and liking to hear themselves talk. You know i have noticed that anything dak related with you is always Zeke related as well. Its as if the 2 cant be separated by you. Im thinking this obsession you have with Zeke is a bit over the top. Does he know? LOL
It occurred to me that I make a LOT of posts all over the place. But you ONLY respond to me in Zeke/Dak threads..

LOL> :rolleyes:
 

Swagger

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My top 10 Quarterbacks heading into 2022:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Patrick Mahomes
3. Tom Brady
4. Josh Allen
5. Russell Wilson
6. Justin Herbert
7. Matt Stafford
8. Deshaun Watson
9. Joe Burrow
10. Lamar Jackson

Jackson and Watson could easily move up the list but they are coming back from varying layoffs albeit from a high ceiling. Herbert is too high on the list based on what he has done but he has such a high upward trajectory.

Then you have the likes of Carr, Murray, Tannehill, Cousins and Ryan in the mid tier with Prescott who is in my view anywhere between #11-16 in the league.

It amazes me how some people genuinely seem to rate Prescott as a top 5 QB in the league!
 

starfan1

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Oh he knows alright!

The problem I had is very simple. The problem is the hypocrisy of it. These guys continue to bash Mountaineer for his less than stellar opinion of Dak...do the same thing to Zeke.

It is..of course related.

"Oh but Zeke is different". Maybe to you...and them. And that is FINE. Bash away on zeke. But then....have the nerve to let others bash who THEY want.

See? Very simple.
No they bash him because he comes across as a pompass *** and has since he joined the site and he is a 1 trick pony
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Outside of a couple teams , Dak wouldnt even be a starting QB in this league.
The fans that disagree with this are conditioned to the point of just good enough status, and thats a reflection of a fan base that sadly is unable to recognize what a "ceiling" is.
Those that believe Dak is going to magically improve even with an improved OL clearly have no definition of the term "ceiling".
An improved OL will preserve Daks tenure, but will not transform Daks inherent natural flaws.
this is even too much for a dak hater. its almost anger and hatred at a personal level, why?
 
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