When was it that you lost faith in Moore as OC?

Diehardblues · Jun 1, 2022

CowboyRoy said:
Get lost buddy. Im not interesting in talking to a psycho. I gave it a shot and your just not all there.

What. You introduced bashing Moore cause he wouldn’t bench Elliott. And called him a punk puppet.

And now want to insult me for calling it out cause you don’t want to hold Jethro responsible for Elliott decision . Whatever but it comes off very hypocritical statement on your part .

Diehardblues · Jun 1, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Go rewatch the game between the Titans and the Bengals, especially the last 1:00 minute. Clear as day how the crooked officials helped the Bengals. Even the announcers said it was a bad no-call in favor of the Bengals that allowed then to steal a win.

When you say “ crooked officials” are you insinuating they are illegally being paid to throw the game ?

Or was it just poor officiating or bad call as the announcer said.

CowboyRoy · Jun 1, 2022

Diehardblues said:
What. You introduced bashing Moore cause he wouldn’t bench Elliott. And called him a punk puppet.

And now want to insult me for calling it out cause you don’t want to hold Jethro responsible for Elliott decision . Whatever but it comes off very hypocritical statement on your part .

Is all in your mind buddy. Lets move on. You can keep having this discussion with your imaginary friends.

CowboysFaninHouston · Jun 1, 2022

DFWJC said:
The QB makes that decsion.
WR screen is one of about 3-4 options on that play

CowboysFaninHouston · Jun 1, 2022

PAPPYDOG said:
Hence my statement before as the PB revolves around our QB talent base..........screen away and check-down heaven and all that for 160 million $$$$$

is it coming out of your pocket? you seem to be hurting financially. can I help you in anyway? are you hungry?

Diehardblues · Jun 1, 2022

CowboyRoy said:
Is all in your mind buddy. Lets move on. You can keep having this discussion with your imaginary friends.

Then explain what you mean when you said it was your last straw when Moore bench Elliott?

“ And the fact that he had the perfect opportunity to bench Zeke for the more dynamic Pollard and didnt, that was it for me. “

That sounds like it was the final straw and what was the major influence in your opinion on Moore?

RonnieT24 · Jun 1, 2022

Doomsday101 said:
I think to a large extent yards are yards and point are points. You face a team with a stiff defensive front and you are dead set on running the ball at them, you are playing into their hands. They want you to challenge them they know they have the size and bulk to shut down the run. On the flip side you have team who struggle against the run so I feel you should attack that. I believe in running and passing but the main thing is attacking the weakness of the opposing team. If you are running and they start stacking the box then throw it get them to back off and if they choose not to then you keep throwing. Any team is capable of shutting down the run but when you get them bring up extra men to do it they leave themselves exposed.

To a certain extent the league changed, you don't have 32 teams out there grinding it out on the ground, this is why we see so many use the pass and many of them throw more than Dallas does.

You may think that and agree with Moore but you're both wrong.. Take my breakdown of the final two minutes of the Tampa game. We had the ball at the Tampa 34 with 1:51 left. The runs eats up Tampa's last timeout and at least 90% of the remaining time. We threw incomplete on 1st down. Zeke got 4 on 2nd down. We threw on 3rd down, Williams got the first of his two million holding calls and suddenly we're back 10 yards and now having to scramble to get back into FG range. Oh and did I mention we stopped the clock without Tampa having to use that last timeout? We can agree that in general you try to run at light boxes and you try to throw into heavy boxes. My issue is that in many instances we got okie-doked into passing into heavy coverage because teams would show heavy at the line of scrimmage until they heard Dak check to the pass play then they would back into drop 7 or 8 coverage. This was especially prevalent over the second half of the season. We just can't be that easy to manipulate into doing what the defense wants us to do. That's what I think Parcells was referring to when he would say "Sometimes you have to be stubborn with the run." Sometimes you have to let the defense know that you aint gonna punk out to a pass play every damn time they bring a safety up into the box.

phildadon86 · Jun 1, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
I said this the night of the game. We had the ball in winning FG range with under 2 minutes left (1:51) . Three runs would have eaten up Tampa's lone remaining timeout and gotten us to under 30 seconds left. Kick the FG eats up another 5 seconds THEN kick the ball to Tampa with ~25 seconds left and no timeouts. Which would have been huge because they had a false start on one play which would have cost them the yards AND the 10 second runoff. So they would have had to go 50+ yards to get into FG range in 15 seconds with no timeouts. As it turned out they needed WAY more than 15 seconds to get into FG range. One in bounds tackle (we ended up getting four ) and it would have been game over. Horrible mismanagement of the situation. I don't know if you blame Dak, Moore, McCarthy or all three but there was no excuse for throwing the ball in that situation.

Here is the problem with this scenario. Do you risk running the ball and letting Greg the Leg shank another one from further out or try and get him as close as possible? I think greg missing those earlier kicks is why they werent running the ball. Wanted to give Dak a chance should greg miss and TB score.

Blast From The Past · Jun 1, 2022

I haven't lost faith in Kellen Moore. But I was very, very close at the end of last season to be frustrated with his play calling. Then I realized that I did not have all of the information I needed to put it all on Kellen's head alone. I don't know who told him or influenced him behind the scenes to run Zeke wide or up the middle or even play a hurt Zeke over a somewhat healthy Pollard. I would think a smart guy like Kellen would not on his own accord do so. So I am still on Kellen's side but if it is repeated again in such a manner I won't be.

RonnieT24 · Jun 1, 2022

phildadon86 said:
Here is the problem with this scenario. Do you risk running the ball and letting Greg the Leg shank another one from further out or try and get him as close as possible? I think greg missing those earlier kicks is why they werent running the ball. Wanted to give Dak a chance should greg miss and TB score.

I think they kept passing it because Dak was in a rhythm and they got greedy. After Zeke's 2nd down run we were at the 30 yard line.. meaning a 47-48 yarder for the win. Which is what we ended up with after the holding penalty and subsequent pass play. The difference was that we used a LOT less time than we should have given the QB who was standing on the other sideline. The incomplete pass on first down was a little 2-3 yard option route to Lamb. If you weren't throwing toward the end zone then why are you throwing at all at that point?

Doomsday101 · Jun 1, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
You may think that and agree with Moore but you're both wrong.. Take my breakdown of the final two minutes of the Tampa game. We had the ball at the Tampa 34 with 1:51 left. The runs eats up Tampa's last timeout and at least 90% of the remaining time. We threw incomplete on 1st down. Zeke got 4 on 2nd down. We threw on 3rd down, Williams got the first of his two million holding calls and suddenly we're back 10 yards and now having to scramble to get back into FG range. Oh and did I mention we stopped the clock without Tampa having to use that last timeout? We can agree that in general you try to run at light boxes and you try to throw into heavy boxes. My issue is that in many instances we got okie-doked into passing into heavy coverage because teams would show heavy at the line of scrimmage until they heard Dak check to the pass play then they would back into drop 7 or 8 coverage. This was especially prevalent over the second half of the season. We just can't be that easy to manipulate into doing what the defense wants us to do. That's what I think Parcells was referring to when he would say "Sometimes you have to be stubborn with the run." Sometimes you have to let the defense know that you aint gonna punk out to a pass play every damn time they bring a safety up into the box.

we are wrong in your opinion. I'm sorry but that is all you got is your own opinion and not everyone will agree with you. I respect you and love talking football but when you say this is how it should be done? based on what? Teams across the NFL throw the ball more times than ever, Dallas as well throws and while I do think there are times he has gotten away from the run and as failed to adjust his offense has still ranked at the top of the NFL. He is doing something right, all this whining about Moore and the facts are this offense was the highest scoring offense in the NFL last season with 530 points, This offense was 1st in passing 6,919 yards and 9th in rushing 2,119. Does he need to improve yes but again this was the #1 offense in the NFL and people act as if Moore has no clue? How many here has accomplished that? My guess is not a singe person here. I will agree with anyone in saying he has to do better with adjustment with in games and through out the season but no one will convince me that he is clueless on how to run an offense.

RonnieT24 · Jun 1, 2022

Doomsday101 said:
we are wrong in your opinion. I'm sorry but that is all you got is your own opinion and not everyone will agree with you. I respect you and love talking football but when you say this is how it should be done? based on what? Teams across the NFL throw the ball more times than ever, Dallas as well throws and while I do think there are times he has gotten away from the run and as failed to adjust his offense has still ranked at the top of the NFL. He is doing something right, all this whining about Moore and the facts are this offense was the highest scoring offense in the NFL last season with 530 points, This offense was 1st in passing 6,919 yards and 9th in rushing 2,119. Does he need to improve yes but again this was the #1 offense in the NFL and people act as if Moore has no clue? How many here has accomplished that? My guess is not a singe person here. I will agree with anyone in saying he has to do better with adjustment with in games and through out the season but no one will convince me that he is clueless on how to run an offense.

No please don't take my criticism of Moore to be stating that he is some sort of clueless chump. I think he's a very good OC.. but he's got two issues IMHO. One being his blind spot as to the value of the running game and second being his seeming inability to evolve the offense as the season wears on. It looks for all the world like he empties his bag of tricks by midseason and has nothing left to finish out the season. I know that's not how things truly are.. but that's certainly how it looks. Yes his offense is ranked at the top of the NFL.. but if the criticism against Dak is that his numbers are a result of fattening up on inferior teams and not showing up against good ones wouldn't that same description apply to Moore?

Doomsday101 · Jun 1, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
No please don't take my criticism of Moore to be stating that he is some sort of clueless chump. I think he's a very good OC.. but he's got two issues IMHO. One being his blind spot as to the value of the running game and second being his seeming inability to evolve the offense as the season wears on. It looks for all the world like he empties his bag of tricks by midseason and has nothing left to finish out the season. I know that's not how things truly are.. but that's certainly how it looks. Yes his offense is ranked at the top of the NFL.. but if the criticism against Dak is that his numbers are a result of fattening up on inferior teams and not showing up against good ones wouldn't that same description apply to Moore?

I think big games this team including everyone plays uptight, I think there is pressure on this team to prove they can play with the top teams but it is the pressure within that they put on themselves. They have got to learn to play to win in big games, yet look as if they are playing not to lose, and not make mistakes instead of just going out and playing the game.

Frankly that falls to McCarthy to get this team to play quality football and have them prepared vs these top teams because ultimately I think it is more mental and physical .

Blackrain · Jun 1, 2022

I'll preface this by saying I didn't read through All the posts but it is very hard for an offense to operate properly when the offensive line is underachieving and flat out not doing its job.

It's also difficult for an offense to operate with lack of a running game when your quarterback used to run when necessary and stops along with the fact that you're starting running back is injured and a step slow and your front office refuses to let you use your backup running back who is probably more healthy.

Not that I'm totally bowled over with Kellen more but all these things make his job more difficult handcuff him and limit his options.

I will still go on record as saying we have not recovered from the loss of Travis Frederick and will continue to struggle till we get a legitimate NFL center

America's Cowboy · Jun 1, 2022

Diehardblues said:
When you say “ crooked officials” are you insinuating they are illegally being paid to throw the game ?

Or was it just poor officiating or bad call as the announcer said.

Does it matter? Bottom line: they clearly helped the Bengals. Too obvious for it to be deemed a mistake.

Hook'em#11 · Jun 1, 2022

Never wanted him as OC in the first place, so, no care. Hopefully he is gone after or during this season.

Diehardblues · Jun 1, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Does it matter? Bottom line: they clearly helped the Bengals. Too obvious for it to be deemed a mistake.

Yes it does matter. Illegal activity by officials should be investigated. But if was just negligence or bad call then it should be called as the announcers did.
All calls bad or not always help a team.

America's Cowboy · Jun 1, 2022

Diehardblues said:
Yes it does matter. Illegal activity by officials should be investigated. But if was just negligence or bad call then it should be called as the announcers did.

All calls bad or not always help a team.

You bash Jerry nonstop, but you make excuses for the officials and the NFL?

:facepalm:

Diehardblues · Jun 1, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
You bash Jerry nonstop, but you make excuses for the officials and the NFL?

You called it “ crooked refs”. That a serious allegation.

I’m not making excuses but I’m not suggesting it was illegal activity . Words matter.

Typhus · Jun 1, 2022

GimmeTheBall! said:
Oh, you callow fellow, you and your sapos with guitars!
You assume all were enamored at first or later with Moore?
Moore, tadpole, was and is Garrett II with a jig there and a jag there to embellish our offencive attack. Moore's wont is to attack via 4 players when successful teams
A. Get the ball to the star receiver and
B. Give the ball to the star RB.
2 players are featured and essential by successful teams. Not 4 as Moore insists.
Never was enamored of Moore, and our anemic playoff record speaks largely for Moore's blah oatmeal attack.
Blimey, now I have gotten meself miffed and peeved.

Carry on, tadpole.
I remain your fan.

Which 4 are you specifically referring to?

When was it that you lost faith in Moore as OC?

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