Are some of you mad at how we are building the team through the draft?

plymkr · Jun 10, 2022

Pass2Run said:
Mad?

Why would I be mad?

We have a ton of cap space, and also have a pretty solid roster with our cap space.

That means we can sign guys like Parsons and Diggs in the future. We're able to sign guys who we build the team around.

I personally feel like Diggs is probably the most underrated Cowboy. To me, he's the kind of player you need to win Super Bowls.

I also love the way we picked up James Washington, quietly. He's going be quite the surprise, I suspect.

James Washington could be the offense's version of Kearse from last year. I've been reading your guys' discussion and I had a few thoughts. One, to answer the main question am I happy with how this team (2022) is being built. Yes, I am. I feel building through the draft is smarter than trying to buy a team of FAs. I do wish we could have solidified the lines and LBs. But o well. Sounds to me like some of you are arguing how to build the team and some are arguing about results. I feel the most frustrating thing about being a Cowboys fan is the team can draft well, get bargain FAs and put a talented roster on the field and have poor results in the playoffs. So frustrating. So that makes me believe the talent acquisition is not the problem. It's my favorite word: culture. Culture is holding us back more than draft, FA or any other way to build a team.

I feel there is hope in the fact we got rid of some bad culture with RG gone and Collins gone. Sprinkle in some Parsons alpha dog mentality that we drafted last year with some of the guys we drafted this year and maybe, just maybe, we got the dawgs to overcome the culture like we did in '95.

America's Cowboy · Jun 10, 2022

RonWashington said:
I like 12-5 sweeping the division but it doesn’t seem to translate when a battle tested team like the 49ers has to play the Rams & Cardinals twice a year and basically dominate your 12-5 sweep a weak teams division champ in there own Art Gallery .

They basically marched down the field opening drive like it was exibiton season then the Cowboys came out went three & out . I like building through the draft expensive free agency sometimes gets you stuck with cap problems. The Rams however got a Bobby Wagner the Bills a Von Miller ….Dallas ? Got rid of its top receiver .

Aren't you another team's fan?

Secondly, the Cowboys beat themselves by have an injured and weak Oline which was unable to get any running game going many times throughout the season, including the playoff game.

Lastly, the Cowboys Dline got run over at will.

If the Cowboys fix both their Oline & Dline this year, this team will be much better, especially against tougher competition.

jnday · Jun 10, 2022

gimmesix said:
OK. Didn't realize you were responding to someone else. The Joneses' philosophy is definitely reward our own, and unlike some others, I really don't have a problem with that. The players get what the market is paying.

It makes me laugh when some of our fans say that the Joneses have gotten cheap. I think the contracts you mentioned, along with some others like Elliott's and Lawrence's, show that isn't the case. They are willing to pay. They are just not willing to pay for high-priced outside free agents, primarily because some like Brandon Carr didn't live up to the price tag. I think that's a very short-sighted philosophy in light of other teams showing that FA can be used to help you win Super Bowls.

Stephen is cheap. He will not go after the mid-tier FAs that offers great value. Those mid-tier FAs fills in the holes on the roster and all good teams uses those FAs. Of course there has been little cap room in the last several seasons, but they have had room to sign one or two decent FAs that didn’t come from a dumpster each season. Some fans still believe that there is no such thing as cap hell, even after seeing certain players leaving because the team can not afford to keep them. I don’t care if they ever sign another overpaid FA that offers little value. I don’t think fans wants see the team tied down with those big contracts.

Flamma · Jun 10, 2022

xwalker said:
How many big contract free agents did Belichick sign during their 6 Super Bowl championships?

He did sign on occasionally, but overall, he always seemed to trade away or not re-sign great players than acquire them on big contracts.

It worked for the Rams and the Eagles got 1 Super Bowl doing it, but in general spending in free agency is not the ticket to Super Bowls.

How many years was Washington the 'winner' of free agency?

Tom Brady: Definitely if you get a once in a decade or once in history opportunity like signing Tom Brady, then go all in, but those players rarely ever hit free agency.

Reggie White: One of the few true Super Starts still in his prime that hit free agency.

WR Davante Adams: I would have been in favor of signing the best WR in the league, but he never became a free agent.

DL Aaron Donald: If he suddenly becomes a free agent, sign me up. Unfortunately that won't happen until he is past his prime.

TE Mark Andrews: I would overpay for this player. One of the least talked about great players in the league. Unfortunately he won't be in free agency.

Denver paid 70M for Randy Freaking Gregory.

I don't think what the Eagles did was as over the top as what the Rams did. Not many of us are asking to start giving away our picks and bringing in a bunch of high paid FAs. But as we've seen many times, teams that didn't even make the playoffs made it to the SB the following year. The Cowboys are a decent team. One good offseason can help a lot. I'd just like to see the Cowboys consider all options after a good season. Not just say they are considering all options. Maybe once move up a little to pick up a guy they like in the early rounds of the draft? Opportunities may present themselves. But the Cowboys seem to ignore all of the options.

RonWashington · Jun 10, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Aren't you another team's fan?

Secondly, the Cowboys beat themselves by have an injured and weak Oline which was unable to get any running game going many times throughout the season, including the playoff game.

Lastly, the Cowboys Dline got run over at will.

If the Cowboys fix both their Oline & Dline this year, this team will be much better, especially against tougher competition.

Omg if your not a Blatant homer your “ another teams “ fan . That’s what’s challenging about this forum the childish responses . Sorry to pop your balloons 12-5 translated into getting run over

America's Cowboy · Jun 10, 2022

RonWashington said:
Omg if your not a Blatant homer your “ another teams “ fan . That’s what’s challenging about this forum the childish responses . Sorry to pop your balloons 12-5 translated into getting run over

Answer the question: Are you not another team's fan???

birdwells1 · Jun 10, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Same thing. Same cost. Same result. Expensive cost that didn't pan out.

It was out of necessity due to wr by committee failing miserably, the problem is that the Joneses have no sense of urgency because they'll never be fired. The only ones that have a sense of urgency are the fans........well some of us.

CowboyRoy · Jun 10, 2022

plymkr said:
Good question. I get frustrated when Dallas goes a long time without addressing position or needs on the team. For instance a run stuffing DT and a quality safety. It seems like it's been forever since we can stop the run when we need too or have a playmaker at safety. Kearse is the best safety we had in a while and he was a bottom tier FA.

So Kearse is actually a good example of positive momentum from our FA philosophy. If we can bargain shop and get playmakers then great. Or get playmakers and fill needs in the draft. Great. I don't care as long as needs get met. I'm a little frustrated with this particular offseason because we need depth on the offensive and defensive line and help in the secondary; and we got all this cap money available. I don't care if they sign 3-5 bottom tier guys or 1 big FA. Just don't go into the season with position needs and a lot of salary cap that goes unspent. That's frustrating.

It seems like we have been mostly miss on these bargain FA's. We had great success last year and I have to think its Quinn on that end.

RonWashington · Jun 10, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Answer the question: Are you not another team's fan???

Been a Cowboy fan longer then you’ve eaten Wheaties

gimmesix · Jun 10, 2022

jnday said:
Stephen is cheap. He will not go after the mid-tier FAs that offers great value. Those mid-tier FAs fills in the holes on the roster and all good teams uses those FAs. Of course there has been little cap room in the last several seasons, but they have had room to sign one or two decent FAs that didn’t come from a dumpster each season. Some fans still believe that there is no such thing as cap hell, even after seeing certain players leaving because the team can not afford to keep them. I don’t care if they ever sign another overpaid FA that offers little value. I don’t think fans wants see the team tied down with those big contracts.

Cheap isn't giving a 4-year, $160-million contract to a quarterback. Cheap isn't giving a 6-year, $90-million contract to a running back. Maybe that's all Jerry, but it's happened while Stephen has been more visibly involved in the organization's decisions. Dallas doesn't shop in the bargain bin because it is cheap, it does so because that is the currently philosophy the Joneses follow. It seems that they are extremists. It's either spend big in FA like they did up to 2012 or pretty much don't spend at all. That's one of the biggest things IMO that make them bad GMs. You can't dig into a position and stubbornly stick to it no matter what. In order to produce a championship team, you've got to consider all options and be smart about how you use them.

plymkr · Jun 10, 2022

CowboyRoy said:
It seems like we have been mostly miss on these bargain FA's. We had great success last year and I have to think its Quinn on that end.

We approach FA like Jerry approaches the 2nd round of the draft. We try to be cute. We look for rehabilitation projects or oft injured players. Every once in a while it works, Kearse. But mostly it doesn't pan out. And watching that pattern year in and year out gets frustrating. Hopefully Quinn can work some of his magic again but the repeated cycle of how we try to use FA gets frustrating. Just like Jerry's 2nd round gambles. I feel like screaming at them to just build the team without attention seeking.

IceStar-D7 · Jun 10, 2022

Yea, Screw cap Boy!!!! Rams spending like it's no cap. CapBoy acting like it's his 401K savings for retirement :facepalm:

CowboyRoy · Jun 10, 2022

plymkr said:
We approach FA like Jerry approaches the 2nd round of the draft. We try to be cute. We look for rehabilitation projects or oft injured players. Every once in a while it works, Kearse. But mostly it doesn't pan out. And watching that pattern year in and year out gets frustrating. Hopefully Quinn can work some of his magic again but the repeated cycle of how we try to use FA gets frustrating. Just like Jerry's 2nd round gambles. I feel like screaming at them to just build the team without attention seeking.

I completely agree.

I like building through the draft and playing the young guys, but were not winning diddly if we dont acquire some big talent in FA.

kumizi · Jun 10, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
Why don't you go whine somewhere else? Or better yet, go follow another team? Sheesh. Don't you get tired of complaining?

You have a Batman avatar.

tyke1doe · Jun 10, 2022

Personally, I like the way we're building the team. I just don't like the coaching.
There's no way or reason with the assembly of talent we've had on this team for the past 10-15 years we shouldn't have made it to the NFC Championship.
Once the coaching gets better, then, I'll feel better with us signing free agents.
I just don't see big-time FAs coming here and doing anything without good coaching. Shrug.

nightrain · Jun 10, 2022

It wouldn't be so bad if the Owner hired a GM and Analytics/Finance Executive who understand the science behind building a successful NFL program.

jnday · Jun 10, 2022

gimmesix said:
Cheap isn't giving a 4-year, $160-million contract to a quarterback. Cheap isn't giving a 6-year, $90-million contract to a running back. Maybe that's all Jerry, but it's happened while Stephen has been more visibly involved in the organization's decisions. Dallas doesn't shop in the bargain bin because it is cheap, it does so because that is the currently philosophy the Joneses follow. It seems that they are extremists. It's either spend big in FA like they did up to 2012 or pretty much don't spend at all. That's one of the biggest things IMO that make them bad GMs. You can't dig into a position and stubbornly stick to it no matter what. In order to produce a championship team, you've got to consider all options and be smart about how you use them.

I guess I should have made my point clear. Yes, Stephen is cheap when it comes to paying FAs, but he doesn’t mind overpaying and overvaluing players that the team drafts. You can list the bad contracts and with the exception of Martin, they were drafted by the Cowboys, overpaid by the Cowboys and they have underperformed as Cowboys. I will repeat my point clearly this time. Since Stephen took over, the team doesn’t sign quality FAs. They invest in homegrown talent without spending money on FAs and they are far from being a legit playoff team. I don’t want to see dumb FA signings like Carr, but spending money to fill the holes on the roster with quality FAs ,that offers value, is a must if they want a team that can win a playoff game. The yearly dumpster diving contest that Stephen likes to participate in has become a running joke. The approach to team building is one of the worst in the league. Every year the team signs cheap FAs that are lucky to make the roster and they get just what they pay for. Dumpster diving doesn’t produce starter quality players, no matter how many times they say that they like their guys. Every decent team in the league fills holes on the roster with smart FA signings. The Rams had some nice FAs that helped win a Super Bowl. Tampa has some rather nice FA signings that played a big part in winning a championship. Dallas doesn’t sign guys like Suh, Miller, the Honey Badger, and the list goes on.

xwalker · Jun 10, 2022

Flamma said:
I don't think what the Eagles did was as over the top as what the Rams did. Not many of us are asking to start giving away our picks and bringing in a bunch of high paid FAs. But as we've seen many times, teams that didn't even make the playoffs made it to the SB the following year. The Cowboys are a decent team. One good offseason can help a lot. I'd just like to see the Cowboys consider all options after a good season. Not just say they are considering all options. Maybe once move up a little to pick up a guy they like in the early rounds of the draft? Opportunities may present themselves. But the Cowboys seem to ignore all of the options.

What position?

The biggest need might be Swing Tackle.

I think Dan Quinn likes the defensive roster and likes to have young players that he can mold to play his style.

A 2nd LB is not a full time starter due to Kearse playing LB on a significant percentage of snaps (40% of snaps in 2021 were with 3 Safeties).

DLaw will remain on the roster a few years now that he signed a new contract.

They paid Armstrong to be the veteran stopgap until Sam Williams is ready to be a full time starter.

Fowler as the the 4th DE is good. He's really close to 5th due to Parsons pass rushing snaps being included.

A true 1tech DT won't play a high percent of snaps and they have 3 options with Watkins/Bohanna/Ridgeway.

They have three 3rd rounders and a 2nd round pick at 3tech.

On offense they knew that they would draft 1 premium OLineman.

There is not point signing a free agent that is just somewhat better than Biadasz. It's either the top OC or just stay with Biadasz/McGovern/Farniok.

Schultz is on the tag which means they were not going to sign replacement.

They're stuck with Zeke for 2022.

Gallup got the new contract.
- They consider Lamb WR#1

They signed Washington as the stopgap veteran WR while Gallup is out and the rookie develops.

It comes back to Swing Tackle for me; although Josh Ball or Waldo only need to be as good as the Swing Tackles they've had the past few years which is not a high bar.

If they're really contending this season but have 1 obvious problem position, I think they'll consider trade options. The problem position is often not what anybody expected in June because it is often injury related.

Last season the OL was not a big problem until after the trade deadline. In the 1st half of the season it appeared they would have good depth when La'el returned from suspension but Tyron injured his ankle and La'el was average at best.

Connor Williams didn't have excessive penalties until 2021. It was hard to predict that he would regress.

Pass2Run · Jun 11, 2022

plymkr said:
James Washington could be the offense's version of Kearse from last year. I've been reading your guys' discussion and I had a few thoughts. One, to answer the main question am I happy with how this team (2022) is being built. Yes, I am. I feel building through the draft is smarter than trying to buy a team of FAs. I do wish we could have solidified the lines and LBs. But o well. Sounds to me like some of you are arguing how to build the team and some are arguing about results. I feel the most frustrating thing about being a Cowboys fan is the team can draft well, get bargain FAs and put a talented roster on the field and have poor results in the playoffs. So frustrating. So that makes me believe the talent acquisition is not the problem. It's my favorite word: culture. Culture is holding us back more than draft, FA or any other way to build a team.

I feel there is hope in the fact we got rid of some bad culture with RG gone and Collins gone. Sprinkle in some Parsons alpha dog mentality that we drafted last year with some of the guys we drafted this year and maybe, just maybe, we got the dawgs to overcome the culture like we did in '95.

I am on board with the idea of building through the draft and also sprinkling in some FAs here and there. But the best teams usually build through the draft. I think this years' draft was more about strengthening the team for when we play teams outside of the division.

I also like the mentality of the guys we drafted, so I feel like we're putting together a team with the types of characters with the mentality to get us there. There's usually a lot more to a player than just purely talent. But, generally, I agree with using both means. Draft and FA.

plymkr · Jun 11, 2022

xwalker said:
What position?

The biggest need might be Swing Tackle.

I think Dan Quinn likes the defensive roster and likes to have young players that he can mold to play his style.

A 2nd LB is not a full time starter due to Kearse playing LB on a significant percentage of snaps (40% of snaps in 2021 were with 3 Safeties).

DLaw will remain on the roster a few years now that he signed a new contract.

They paid Armstrong to be the veteran stopgap until Sam Williams is ready to be a full time starter.

Fowler as the the 4th DE is good. He's really close to 5th due to Parsons pass rushing snaps being included.

A true 1tech DT won't play a high percent of snaps and they have 3 options with Watkins/Bohanna/Ridgeway.

They have three 3rd rounders and a 2nd round pick at 3tech.

On offense they knew that they would draft 1 premium OLineman.

There is not point signing a free agent that is just somewhat better than Biadasz. It's either the top OC or just stay with Biadasz/McGovern/Farniok.

Schultz is on the tag which means they were not going to sign replacement.

They're stuck with Zeke for 2022.

Gallup got the new contract.
- They consider Lamb WR#1

They signed Washington as the stopgap veteran WR while Gallup is out and the rookie develops.

It comes back to Swing Tackle for me; although Josh Ball or Waldo only need to be as good as the Swing Tackles they've had the past few years which is not a high bar.

If they're really contending this season but have 1 obvious problem position, I think they'll consider trade options. The problem position is often not what anybody expected in June because it is often injury related.

Last season the OL was not a big problem until after the trade deadline. In the 1st half of the season it appeared they would have good depth when La'el returned from suspension but Tyron injured his ankle and La'el was average at best.

Connor Williams didn't have excessive penalties until 2021. It was hard to predict that he would regress.

Don't forget about Jabril Cox. He was showing promise before he got hurt. His return will help the LBers. I do wish we had 1 more OT on board that would be a quality backup for Tyron. Like you said a swing T. If I could pick a position to sign as a FA that would be it.

Are some of you mad at how we are building the team through the draft?

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