Pro comp for Sam Williams

kskboys · Jun 5, 2022

Pass2Run said:
By the way, I think chances are Barno won't be all that great as a rookie. I think you can find a role for a guy like that, though. Even if it's at safety. Or something. I always had him as a 5th or 6th round talent.

Maybe you'd reach for him if you had a special role in mind. But any role on the defensive front that I can think of and I'd have him gaining a little weight. Then again, a guy that fast, with those skills on the line, I'd be tempted to look at him at safety some.. just for fun.

But he was always really just my pet cat because of his traits. VA is correct, some of it never really showed up in the games. But that is what NFL coaching is for.

To me, he has career STer written all over him.

Pass2Run · Jun 5, 2022

kskboys said:
To me, he has career STer written all over him.

So be it, you got him in the late rounds. He doesn't seem to have the instinct to compete this year, but no telling what Barno does in two or three years. You just can't tell. But yeah, I didn't have him slated as a top-of-the-draft kind of guy anyway. I was just guessing he'd be sort of a fit as a late round guy if we didn't go defensive line early.

You can't deny his size and speed. I think he could have a nice career playing Kearse-like role even. Some will argue a little too tall. But I think his speed makes up for it in space. And he's the kind of guy you can train to make plays in space.

Sam Williams is more of a 1st-2nd round talent range guy.. And you can take what he knows and have him ready pretty soon.

Barno is more of a project. Athletically similar to Gregory, just not as strong, and not the same instincts. Gregory made up for being light.. Barno never really did that at the combine or in the games, more of a linebacker/safety type, if you ask me.

BermyStar · Jun 13, 2022

One thing I have heard NFL heads say before about pass rushers is that sacks translate. Tape and measurments are great, but guys that finished in college (especially against good comp like the SEC) tend to be ai'it in the L. Hope that's the case with Sam.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 14, 2022

Risen Star said:
Two totally different players. Suggs was nowhere near the athlete Williams is. Williams is nowhere near the natural pass rusher Suggs was.

Given how little time Sam has at the position, and how obviously unpolished as he is in his technique, he wouldn't have been effective if he wasn't a natural.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 14, 2022

BermyStar said:
One thing I have heard NFL heads say before about pass rushers is that sacks translate. Tape and measurments are great, but guys that finished in college (especially against good comp like the SEC) tend to be ai'it in the L. Hope that's the case with Sam.

That is what I was saying to RS. He was able to get to the QB in the SEC against first round talent multiple times and lead the conference in sacks. He did that with a lack of experience, unpolished technique, and having to play in the B gap about half the time.

He had all that stacked against him and still produced. It's like they think he just lucked into it.

At the end of the day his punch on the stab is jarring, he has the balance and body control to bend keeping hands off him, and the agility and lower body strength to turn the corner. What do you think he is going to do with a technique guru like Q?

BermyStar · Jun 14, 2022

FuzzyLumpkins said:
That is what I was saying to RS. He was able to get to the QB in the SEC against first round talent multiple times and lead the conference in sacks. He did that with a lack of experience, unpolished technique, and having to play in the B gap about half the time.

He had all that stacked against him and still produced. It's like they think he just lucked into it.

At the end of the day his punch on the stab is jarring, he has the balance and body control to bend keeping hands off him, and the agility and lower body strength to turn the corner. What do you think he is going to do with a technique guru like Q?

Man! You got me ready to put on pads and get out there lol. Great summary of Williams man, couldn't have said it any better myself! I really think (fandom be damned) that with DLaw and Micah drawing so much attention Sam has an oppurtunity to surprise earlier than not.

kskboys · Jun 14, 2022

FuzzyLumpkins said:
That is what I was saying to RS. He was able to get to the QB in the SEC against first round talent multiple times and lead the conference in sacks. He did that with a lack of experience, unpolished technique, and having to play in the B gap about half the time.

He had all that stacked against him and still produced. It's like they think he just lucked into it.

At the end of the day his punch on the stab is jarring, he has the balance and body control to bend keeping hands off him, and the agility and lower body strength to turn the corner. What do you think he is going to do with a technique guru like Q?

Aside from some technique issues, the only real negative that stands out w/ Sammy is that his burst is just OK.

CalPolyTechnique · Jun 15, 2022

BermyStar said:
One thing I have heard NFL heads say before about pass rushers is that sacks translate. Tape and measurments are great, but guys that finished in college (especially against good comp like the SEC) tend to be ai'it in the L. Hope that's the case with Sam.

It’s a cool thing to say but sacks don’t always translate to the NFL.

Brandon Williams (former Cowboy), Bradlee Anae, Victor Butler, and Vinny Curry are just a few college sack artists that either didn’t pan out or had middling NFL careers.

With that said, I like Sam Williams chances of being a productive player. My comp. for him is somewhere between Cameron Wake and Oliver Vernon.

kskboys · Jun 16, 2022

CalPolyTechnique said:
It’s a cool thing to say but sacks don’t always translate to the NFL.

Brandon Williams (former Cowboy), Bradlee Anae, Victor Butler, and Vinny Curry are just a few college sack artists that either didn’t pan out or had middling NFL careers.

With that said, I like Sam Williams chances of being a productive player. My comp. for him is somewhere between Cameron Wake and Oliver Vernon.

What translates to the NFL is burst, lateral agility, motor, and instincts. College stats are almost irrelevant when evaluating prospects.

The Realist · Jun 16, 2022

kskboys said:
What translates to the NFL is burst, lateral agility, motor, and instincts. College stats are almost irrelevant when evaluating prospects.

So you’re saying that the Combine and testing numbers are more important than college production?

DUO_CORE · Jun 16, 2022

Unless he's on the kickoff team, we'll never see his 40 time on the field.

kskboys · Jun 16, 2022

The Realist said:
So you’re saying that the Combine and testing numbers are more important than college production?

Yes, but even more important than that are scouting evaluations by professional scouts. It's traits, instincts, and motor at the top of the list. Only scouts can really get a handle on those type things.

Croomraider · Jun 16, 2022

Risen Star said:
George Selvie.

Breathe that one in. It stings the nostrils.

Ooooffff... can't breathe that nasty air...

Sam Williams 4.46 40
George Selvie 4.93 40

Not even in the same conversation.

xwalker · Jun 17, 2022

The Realist said:
So you’re saying that the Combine and testing numbers are more important than college production?

Better predictor of success statistically.

Croomraider · Jun 17, 2022

DUO_CORE said:
Unless he's on the kickoff team, we'll never see his 40 time on the field.

That's not true.

Von Miller 4.49 40 time
Micah Parson 4.39 40 time

Don't think these guys are on the Wild Bunch kickoff coverage.

40 time is maybe the most important combine stat.

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 17, 2022

kskboys said:
What translates to the NFL is burst, lateral agility, motor, and instincts. College stats are almost irrelevant when evaluating prospects.

While having sacks doesn't correlate, not having sacks does mean they probably aren't to get them in the NFL either.

There are few examples of NFL sack masters who put up doughnuts in college.

speedkilz88 · Jun 17, 2022

We can make it shorter than 40

10 yd split
Sam Williams 1.55
Micah Parsons 1.59
Von Miller 1.62

20 yd split
Sam Williams 2.57
Micah Parsons 2.58
Von Miller 2.64

FuzzyLumpkins · Jun 17, 2022

Croomraider said:
That's not true.

Von Miller 4.49 40 time
Micah Parson 4.39 40 time

Don't think these guys are on the Wild Bunch kickoff coverage.

40 time is maybe the most important combine stat.

Not for rushing the passer its not. The only time a pass rusher runs that far is when the QB scrambles to the open side and even then its not often it goes to the sideline. It also means your unit lost contain but that is another issue. It has almost nothing to do with the steps and hand placement that they focus time on. That is all explosion, agility, change of direction.

Croomraider · Jun 19, 2022

I agree that hand placement is important, explosion, agility, etc.. but I think the speed of Von Miller is what impresses me the most.

America's Cowboy · Jun 24, 2022

fivetwos said:
Do you folks generally get a boom or bust vibe from him? Put the off the field stuff aside for a minute.

I'm not sure I see him ending up in Anthony Spencer ville (good not great).

I see him as either Taco or something very special.

They did reach for him according to many player rankings, but it was probably worth the shot.

I think someone spiked your kool-aid, Kool-aid Man.

Pro comp for Sam Williams

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