What draft picks would you give up for Sean Payton?

RustyBourneHorse said:

Oh, same here. Advancing in the postseason is the next part of the....can't believe I'm going to say this...process.

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Garrett may have used the term but it is true and have heard many other HC use the term "process" because the reality is, it is a process and things do not happen overnight. McCarthy has his work cut out for him and he must take advantage of this.

Doomsday101 said:

Garrett may have used the term but it is true and have heard many other HC use the term "process" because the reality is, it is a process and things do not happen overnight. McCarthy has his work cut out for him and he must take advantage of this.

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I know, I was saying that as a Jason Garrett joke lol. But yes, advancing in the playoffs is the next part of the process.

Bates said:

is it personal? Is it Payton no longer wants to coach or wants a break? If it’s personal and he wants to coach it would be stupid not to get something for him. He’s not coming back to coach her team. If I were her I may have a bit of an issue if he’d be coaching within my division, but I doubt that would have much impact because he’d be going to a poor team who just fired their coach most likely.

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- I like many others are not convinced Payton is done with coaching, .but i like many also could be wrong ala Bill Cowher, Jimmie Johnson, Tony Dungy, etc,
are great former head coaches that left the game on a permanent basis, to join NFL broadcasting.

- i'd wonder if the Saints owner will see as personal as to why would Payton quit here, and not want to return to the NFL team that gave him the lifelong dream and
opportunity to be n NFL HC, especially if reports start swirling more intensely about Payton wanting out of that contract, for the sake of getting the Cowboys HC job, (sorry Mike Mac)
combine with the Cowboys making "inquires" about buyout and trade compensations.

- If Drew Brees were still playing, ..were still on an high level, ...and Saints were still in playoff contention, i don't think Payton walks away.
But with Brees retired and gone, and that looming QB situation the seemingly problem that it is .. there's not a QB foundation to build off of, and Payton screwed that team
with a committee and investment influence to gimmick QB Tayson Hill.

- And lets face it, Payton is the best thing that has ever happened to the sports world of the city of New Orleans, and especially that Saints organization.
And for him to walk out on the Saints, and a year later want to go to the next door neighbor Cowboys,.. i can see how that would tempt that owner to
even think 'personal. ..but that owner needs to think needs first...future first ..and business first. Think of what's best for the Saints organization going forward.

The rights to Nolan Carroll, Paul Palmer, Jeff Rohrer....and maybe throw in a 9th rounder.

Doomsday101 said:

I think Injury played a big part in McCarthy 1st season not just losing starting QB but injuries long the OL. His 2nd season as HC showed a 12-5 season and I do expect more from him and this team. I'm not looking to play musical HC, I would just as soon see McCarthy lead this team to a SB. Should he fail then and this team not make post season this year I would expect a change but I have always felt you hire a HC you give him a legit opportunity if not you will end up going through a lot of coaches with little results

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very valid points and i hope you are right about MM. I hope the injuries or bad luck etc are the causes for the lack of playoff wins and the mediocre record so far.
What worries me more is that his coaching trajectory is quite bad culminating in a firing at a top tier organization . Plus the warning signs of a bad coach : penalties, lack of discipline, and unexplained bad losses ( the denver game at home , the arizona loss at home , the SF playoff game etc ) , the puzzling clock management issues , the players rallying behind Quinn and not MM. These are major symptoms of a bigger problem. I fully understand he is just coaching what Jerry has picked , and for that he gets some valid arguments. but at the end , the magnitude and manner by which he has coached can be indicative of things staying bad or getting worse. Rarely do coaches, who have similar issue , recover and win or reach Super Bowls. I cannot recall lately a coach on the slide suddenly taking a team to the SB . Coaches who make or win the SB lately have either been a brilliant , tough top tier coaches ( Beliceck, Reid , Tomlin ) or Arians , Carrol, or a hot young new coach ( Sean McVay, Shanahan).
There is a logical argument that sean payton has not won or reached a SB lately, but he averaged 11 wins in his last 5 years at N.O and has a winning playoff record , and he has not been fired.
Next season will tell us a lot about MM. I hope he can turn things around but it is unlikely in my opinion.

basel90 said:

very valid points and i hope you are right about MM. I hope the injuries or bad luck etc are the causes for the lack of playoff wins and the mediocre record so far.
What worries me more is that his coaching trajectory is quite bad culminating in a firing at a top tier organization . Plus the warning signs of a bad coach : penalties, lack of discipline, and unexplained bad losses ( the denver game at home , the arizona loss at home , the SF playoff game etc ) , the puzzling clock management issues , the players rallying behind Quinn and not MM. These are major symptoms of a bigger problem. I fully understand he is just coaching what Jerry has picked , and for that he gets some valid arguments. but at the end , the magnitude and manner by which he has coached can be indicative of things staying bad or getting worse. Rarely do coaches, who have similar issue , recover and win or reach Super Bowls. I cannot recall lately a coach on the slide suddenly taking a team to the SB . Coaches who make or win the SB lately have either been a brilliant , tough top tier coaches ( Beliceck, Reid , Tomlin ) or Arians , Carrol, or a hot young new coach ( Sean McVay, Shanahan).
There is a logical argument that sean payton has not won or reached a SB lately, but he averaged 11 wins in his last 5 years at N.O and has a winning playoff record , and he has not been fired.
Next season will tell us a lot about MM. I hope he can turn things around but it is unlikely in my opinion.

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It is on McCarthy, he got this team to 12-5 and I agree not enough but vast improvement over year 1. As I said you hire a HC you give him the chance and McCarthy has a chance this season. I like Payton as well but what has he done? 1 SB with Brees one of the greats in the game and then after that season? I'm not opposed to hiring Payton but I would say then same about him, you hire him you give him a chance but what we see it after 1 or 2 years fans get whinny and want change. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Doomsday101 said:

It is on McCarthy, he got this team to 12-5 and I agree not enough but vast improvement over year 1. As I said you hire a HC you give him the chance and McCarthy has a chance this season. I like Payton as well but what has he done? 1 SB with Brees one of the greats in the game and then after that season? I'm not opposed to hiring Payton but I would say then same about him, you hire him you give him a chance but what we see it after 1 or 2 years fans get whinny and want change. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

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very true , payton may not turn out to be the solution. Jerry is determined to give MM 5 years to reach a SB or win one. but how would you feel if they don't make the playoffs next season , or make it and lose the first game ,again? jerry will still find an excuse and not fire him , unless there is an embarassing collapse ( 7-10 record or less ) and/or there is a fan uproar, which is not a big deal now with jerry . Most of the money comes from TV and brand licensing . Attendance is a distant 3rd.

CouchCoach said:

What is it that the Payton fans think he will do that McC can't do?

Why do you think he walked away from NO, making over 50% more than Booger has ever paid a HC?

Have you really looked closely at the situation any HC faces in Dallas? Do you think the owner is changing for Payton?

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valid points. he either has coaching fatigue , or wants a change in scenery or to come back to dallas or go into broadcasting.
Jerry is determined to give MM a full 5 years to reach a SB. so it is unlikely payton will be hired unless the cowboys have a terrible season 7-10 season or less.

Jimbo123 said:

I have read that two 1st would be the starting point. Would you go for that?

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ZIP, ZERO.....NONE!

basel90 said:

very true , payton may not turn out to be the solution. Jerry is determined to give MM 5 years to reach a SB or win one. but how would you feel if they don't make the playoffs next season , or make it and lose the first game ,again? jerry will still find an excuse and not fire him , unless there is an embarassing collapse ( 7-10 record or less ) and/or there is a fan uproar, which is not a big deal now with jerry . Most of the money comes from TV and brand licensing . Attendance is a distant 3rd.

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I doubt that is the case, he gave McCarthy a 5 year deal pretty customary. I don't think Jerry will stay with him should Dallas fail to make the post season. I'm sorry but I do think Jerry want to win and this is not just to make money, jerry was livid after the loss to the 9ers. I think Jerry expects much from McCarthy and if McCarthy does not deliver I don't think he will last the the length of the contract. Wade Phillips was fired mid season.

Doomsday101 said:

I doubt that is the case, he gave McCarthy a 5 year deal pretty customary. I don't think Jerry will stay with him should Dallas fail to make the post season. I'm sorry but I do think Jerry want to win and this is not just to make money, jerry was livid after the loss to the 9ers. I think Jerry expects much from McCarthy and if McCarthy does not deliver I don't think he will last the the length of the contract. Wade Phillips was fired mid season.

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I tend to agree although stephen has become close with MM , and may persuade jerry to give him another year as a last chance. The other likely outcome is Dan Quinn becoming the head coach. many players like him and will fight for him , I like Quinn but not sure he will be the answer . Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

quickccc said:

If she is anything near a business tycoon, she'd get with her key executives and operatives and compile the best deal and package for the Saints club, instead
of trying to make it personal and getting back at Sean or Jerry..

i can see the Saints being among the very worse teams next year. Especially when Winston goes down again.
But if i'm not mistaken, the Eagles (of all teams!) now have the Saints 1st round pick next year ..

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The usual going rate for getting a HC out of his contract is 2 1sts. That's what the Rams gave up for Vermeil and the Bucs for Gruden.

I don't know how personal it is but she has the fans to appease and I know a lot of them were asking "he couldn't have decided this prior to extending Hill"? The suddenness of this really does make it a mystery. There may be something very personal going on with him or his family and he's not open to being public about it.

I know Vermeil was close to a nervous breakdown and having some real mental struggles when he hung it up before coming back.

Doomsday101 said:

I doubt that is the case, he gave McCarthy a 5 year deal pretty customary. I don't think Jerry will stay with him should Dallas fail to make the post season. I'm sorry but I do think Jerry want to win and this is not just to make money, jerry was livid after the loss to the 9ers. I think Jerry expects much from McCarthy and if McCarthy does not deliver I don't think he will last the the length of the contract. Wade Phillips was fired mid season.

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Except for one little thing. McC openly admitted to staying out of Moore's plan and calling in that game and I have never even heard of a HC doing that.

I do not think that was his choice and he wanted someone to know that.

How does the turnover in players, 3 on O and 1 on D, figure into this? The perception is they are not in as good a shape as they were going into last season so does that give McC some breathing room?

One thing about this, Booger's 1st requirement of a HC is for him to make Booger comfortable and McC seems to have done that. He speaks only when spoken to and gives the floor to Booger & Son in public.

Still on the nada, no way jose, zilch, nothing.

Carson said:

20 first rounders starting in 2089

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I would give up a 2nd rounder no question about it. To get Payton for the next 5-10 years would 100% be worth it.

CouchCoach said:

The usual going rate for getting a HC out of his contract is 2 1sts. That's what the Rams gave up for Vermeil and the Bucs for Gruden.

I don't know how personal it is but she has the fans to appease and I know a lot of them were asking "he couldn't have decided this prior to extending Hill"? The suddenness of this really does make it a mystery. There may be something very personal going on with him or his family and he's not open to being public about it.

I know Vermeil was close to a nervous breakdown and having some real mental struggles when he hung it up before coming back.

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And that was a long time ago, too.
How recent was the last time when NFL teams gave such premiums for prized HC's ?

HC's like a Sean McVey, teams locked them up contractually with da quickness.

It seems teams are going after hot stock young coordinators or coaches that have been fired by previous teams.- even if they had won SBs ala Mike McCarthy, Doug Pederson.

RustyBourneHorse said:

I know, I was saying that as a Jason Garrett joke lol. But yes, advancing in the playoffs is the next part of the process.

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The Cowboys don't have a process. Or better yet, they didn't do anything in the offseason to improve the team from last year. What process? Is hope a process? On paper they're throwing out a similar team to last year's with the hope they advance in the playoffs. That's it.

Flamma said:

The Cowboys don't have a process. Or better yet, they didn't do anything in the offseason to improve the team from last year. What process? Is hope a process? On paper they're throwing out a similar team to last year's with the hope they advance in the playoffs. That's it.

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True, but, in theory, the idea is that we should be able to advance in the playoffs.

Payton won't coach the Cowboys. Why would he want to coach where he would have the least amount of authority as a Head Coach in the NFL?

Besides, if Payton is so elite, then why has the Saints gone to the NFC Championship game only once in the past 12 years since winning a Super Bowl? I mean, Tom Landry was fired 10 years after going to a Super Bowl and the Cowboys went to three NFC championship games in between.

Two #1's? You got to show me at least two rings in the past five years before I will even consider that.